Clean chain for voice-over recording?

[VoxPro]

Thanks a million to all members that posted replies to my previous thread about Mic pre and compressors for voice-over recording.

I need your advice on a best Mic-pre / Compressor and AD converter combination to use with the Neumann U87Ai and/or Brauner Phantom C microphone.

Goal: CLEAN, CLEAR, DETAIL and OPEN SOUND (Tridimensionality, intelligibility, clarity and detail when recording speech)

John Hardy M1?
Avalon M5?
Millennia HV-3?
Any other CLEAN mic pre?

LA3-A?
1176?
Millennia Origin combo?
Distressor?
Any other Clean?

ROSETTA 200?
Benchmark DAC?
Lavry Blue?
Any other?

Thanks in advance for help, your advice, and valuable time.

[Acoustic Cloud]

vox, you have acquired GAS... "gear acquisition syndrome"

Any of those are good pres, in fact, if you had all of those in one place to listen too, you would be amazed at the similarities.

Buy one of them and get to work!

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

vox, you have acquired GAS... "gear acquisition syndrome"

Any of those are good pres, in fact, if you had all of those in one place to listen too, you would be amazed at the similarities.

Buy one of them and get to work!

Hey Acoustic, Thanks for the "advise".

How can you asure that I have GAS...you don't even know how much gear I own.......Are you the Gear Doctor?
That was funny !

[gsilbers]

defenitly too much good gear for voice over recording.

with u89 and any of those pres will be better than 70% if oist studios in NY and maybeLA.

usually a standard is the neunman tlm and any $800+ pre./


but what is different and pro is the actuall recording space.

100% DEAD SPACE , great sounding recoding rooms.

and good talent.


and compression but lightly

[santacore]

Yep, the space is very important. It has a big effect if you doing anything over normal speaking level.

All three pre's mentioned are excellent and are as good or better than most studio's. I've used the Hardy and the M1 and both are great. The Millennia has a great reputation although I haven't used it.

As mentioned go light with compressors. You can do more damage than good. In fact you might want to skip the compressor at the start. Then add in any of the above units in small amounts and you're set.

Don't overthink this too much. VO talent, mic position, and room sound are you biggest obstacles. Good luck and have fun.

[TonyBelmont]

Neumann U87 through a Millenia STT1 would be a nice setup.

[jowillie]

Thanks for the posts, Voxpro. I am in the process of setting up two VO booths in two different towns. We currently us the old standard broadcast setups with Shure SM7s and RE20s and usual broadcast processing like Symetrix. We have started using Hiel's PR series mics with great success on TV vo's and internet tracks.

We are expanding our market and are looking for gear that will enable us to meet the needs of a wider range of vo clients. Some of the gear mentioned matches up with that used by top talent to meet those needs.

Has anyone A/B compared the Safe Sound P-1 to other standards.

[Gibby]

Originally Posted by santacore

Yep, the space is very important. It has a big effect if you doing anything over normal speaking level.

All three pre's mentioned are excellent and are as good or better than most studio's. I've used the Hardy and the M1 and both are great. The Millennia has a great reputation although I haven't used it.

As mentioned go light with compressors. You can do more damage than good. In fact you might want to skip the compressor at the start. Then add in any of the above units in small amounts and you're set.

Don't overthink this too much. VO talent, mic position, and room sound are you biggest obstacles. Good luck and have fun.

How would you position your mic for VO recording? Any different from vocal recording? Just curious.

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by Gibby

How would you position your mic for VO recording? Any different from vocal recording? Just curious.

For VO work you tend to position closer to the mic ( 3 to 4 inches) MOST of the time, if you are recording a HARD SALE SPOT you separate a little......If VOCALS means Singing: for that application is a diferent story depending on th singer and the MIC ...I am not a singer I can not tell.

I hope I helped.

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

defenitly too much good gear for voice over recording.

with u89 and any of those pres will be better than 70% if oist studios in NY and maybeLA.

usually a standard is the neunman tlm and any $800+ pre./


but what is different and pro is the actuall recording space.

100% DEAD SPACE , great sounding recoding rooms.

and good talent.


and compression but lightly

Thanks for your advise....you are 100% right: Room is very important element...(not for all kinds of VO you need DEAD SPACE) and slight compression ... Very Clever BUT:

No HIGH END gear is too much for VO recording. The fact that some people don't pay attention to AUDIO quality, does not mean that good equipment is required when you need to achieve the best sounding VO tracks possible. Your statement shows that you know very little about the voice-over field.tutt

I am sure you know that Human voice,specially SPEECH is one of the most complicated material to record.

Do you think that those Movie Trailers and those Discovery channel narrations are recorded with budget Microphones and mic pres?....NO sir!

I agree with you in this one: (Good talent)
The most important part is what the talent does in front of the mic...IT IS the indian and NOT the arrow!!!!...of course: a GOOD arrow HELPS!

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by VoxPro

Thanks for your advise....you are 100% right: Room is very important element...(not for all kinds of VO you need DEAD SPACE) and slight compression ... Very Clever BUT:

No HIGH END gear is too much for VO recording. The fact that some people don't pay attention to AUDIO quality, does not mean that good equipment is required when you need to achieve the best sounding VO tracks possible. Your statement shows that you know very little about the voice-over field.tutt

I am sure you know that Human voice,specially SPEECH is one of the most complicated material to record.

Do you think that those Movie Trailers and those Discovery channel narrations are recorded with budget Microphones and mic pres?....NO sir!

I agree with you in this one: (Good talent)
The most important part is what the talent does in front of the mic...IT IS the indian and NOT the arrow!!!!...of course: a GOOD arrow HELPS!

well im not saying that better equipmet is not going to make a difference, it sure will. im saying that you have better equipment than about 60% of post studios in NYa nd LA
of course the big ones have the money for better equipment but usually the time is sooo limited whatever is available is going to be the best equipment.

[SeanFL]

I think you would be very happy with any of the preamps (great river also sounds great on vo) and a crane song trakker. Very clean and capable of doing everything from barely noticeable compression to major crunch.

The distressor can be fairly colored but is also an excellent box.


Sean

[VO-Guy]

I researched this myself not too long ago. Found that the main studios had basically two mics a U87 and a MKH-416. Pre's were naturally clean. Grace, Hardy, Millennia, Avalon.

I have both the MKH-416 and the U87 and went with the Avalon M5 pre. Compressor wise, used mainly just for imaging, I found a Urei LA4 at Vintage King. Next just gotta get that Rosetta 200 with firewire. What I found was keep it clean. If you do any ISDN session's that's how they'll want it, of course you probably knew that. It'll be a great setup regardless of what you pick, good stuff!

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot

Gordon

to add to that..
DAV

youll find info on both here with a search..

[SK1]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

defenitly too much good gear for voice over recording.

with u89 and any of those pres will be better than 70% if oist studios in NY and maybeLA.

usually a standard is the neunman tlm and any $800+ pre./


but what is different and pro is the actuall recording space.

100% DEAD SPACE , great sounding recoding rooms.

and good talent.


and compression but lightly

I agree 100%

Sure you could have a better chain .....
But voice over is easy. It's not drum recording.

It sounds like you'll be killing on voice overs.

Go get em !!

[picksail]

I've been getting a lot of calls for VOs lately.

I recently employed the U87/LTD-1 combo. Worked like a charm.

[lawrence_o]

How about an M149 into let's say a focusrite red7?
They don't cost that much anymore on eBay, the red7 I mean.

It's a solid Mic Pre, is it not?

Cheers

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by VO-Guy

I researched this myself not too long ago. Found that the main studios had basically two mics a U87 and a MKH-416. Pre's were naturally clean. Grace, Hardy, Millennia, Avalon.

I have both the MKH-416 and the U87 and went with the Avalon M5 pre. Compressor wise, used mainly just for imaging, I found a Urei LA4 at Vintage King. Next just gotta get that Rosetta 200 with firewire. What I found was keep it clean. If you do any ISDN session's that's how they'll want it, of course you probably knew that. It'll be a great setup regardless of what you pick, good stuff!

Thanks Russ! I visited you site. Impressive voice delivery and range !!!!thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I know a another top VO artist using that combination for VO.

Why you choose the M5 over the rest?

Why a UREI LA-4...anything special for vocals? What about the LA-3A

Thanks again!!!

Yes...I have ISDN studio.

[1destiny]

I'm a vo guy as well... get the Great River. It's AMAZING for our kind of work. I'm running an M149 into it and I LOVE it. Still trying to huntg down a Crabe Song Trakker, but they seem to be quite scarce.

[jowillie]

Since we are setting up a very simple and single purpose vocal chain, what is the suggested best (and simplest) solution for dependable interface? If we invest in the right preamp, then that is not a factor in the interface. Probably no more than two channels in are necessary. Therefore, USB should be fine.
Please share your experience with what been good for you.
Thanks,
Jowillie

[redrue]

Here's what I'm using:

TLM49>GML>MC77>192

recording in a deader than dead room

I absolutely love the sound that comes from
that chain.

It's THE VO sound I've always wanted.

Have fun.

Rue

[jowillie]

"TLM49>GML>MC77>192"

Rue, Spell that out for us lost in the commercial world.
Neumann into>?>?

Thanks

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by jowillie

"TLM49>GML>MC77>192"

Rue, Spell that out for us lost in the commercial world.
Neumann into>?>?

Thanks

Hey Jowwillie

I think this what Rue is saying in his Gearslutz's language:


1) Neumann microphone TLM49 (new transformerless microphone from Neumann U47 sound type. it has the M7 capsule) into


2) GML Microphone pre amplifier from the legendary George Massenburg (with equalizer “may be”) into


3) PURPEL AUDIO MC77 COMPRESSOR (The MC77 supercedes the MC76 re-engineered Universal Audio 1176 type FET Limiter. The MC77 recreates the audio circuitry of the revision E 1176, using modern components matched to the original) into

4) Recording with Converter with sampling rate of 192 MHz ( Pro tools may be)


Please correct me if I'm wrong RUE

Sounds like a very nice chain for VO...Unusual but certainly very high end gear combination for the application

Thanks for advice RUE..Way to go !

VOXPRO

[VoxPro]

Originally Posted by 1destiny

I'm a vo guy as well... get the Great River. It's AMAZING for our kind of work. I'm running an M149 into it and I LOVE it. Still trying to huntg down a Crabe Song Trakker, but they seem to be quite scarce.

Thanks my man ! Which model are you referring to? Why do you think is so good? Works better than the Hardy M1 for VO?

Did you finally buy the 416 for your new room?

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by redrue

Here's what I'm using:

TLM49>GML>MC77>192

recording in a deader than dead room

I absolutely love the sound that comes from
that chain.

It's THE VO sound I've always wanted.

Have fun.

Rue

deader than dead rules....I dont have your gear, but the dead part is de balmb!

[redrue]

Originally Posted by VoxPro

1) Neumann microphone TLM49 (new transformerless microphone from Neumann U47 sound type. it has the M7 capsule) into


2) GML Microphone pre amplifier from the legendary George Massenburg (with equalizer “may be”) into


3) PURPEL AUDIO MC77 COMPRESSOR (The MC77 supercedes the MC76 re-engineered Universal Audio 1176 type FET Limiter. The MC77 recreates the audio circuitry of the revision E 1176, using modern components matched to the original) into

4) Recording with Converter with sampling rate of 192 MHz ( Pro tools may be)


VOXPRO

Yep... you pretty much nailed it... except the 192.

The GML Mic Pre is the 8304 and is transformerless... very clean
and extremeley detailed with lots of 'sparkle'. No EQ on this model.
They also make an 8302 which is the 2-channel version. Do yourself
a favor, buy one. Best gear purchase I ever made.

The 192 I'm referring to is the Digi 192 interface/convertor...
I always record @ 88.2khz

[VO-Guy]

Originally Posted by redrue

Here's what I'm using:

TLM49>GML>MC77>192

recording in a deader than dead room

I absolutely love the sound that comes from
that chain.

It's THE VO sound I've always wanted.

Have fun.

Rue

Rue,

Man I bet that setups does sound great! You got a website or anything with demos so I can hear it in action? You can pm me if you'd like.

I'm really likin the U87>M5 setup. LA4 hasn't got here yet, being recapped and serviced from Vintage King before they send it out. Currently using the ISA 220 for some comp in the mean time. Next upgrade if my audio interface. Debating between the Motu or Fireface 400. Decisions, decisions.

[1destiny]

Originally Posted by VoxPro

Thanks my man ! Which model are you referring to? Why do you think is so good? Works better than the Hardy M1 for VO?

Did you finally buy the 416 for your new room?

I thought that was you down in sunny FL posting .... I think the model on the Great River is the NV1. It's the single channel unit. They make a dual and a pre/eq combo, but I'm told all pres are 100% identical. So I'm told.

Anyway, I LOVE the deffinition, the clarity, the detail, the openness, without EVER sounding cold or harsh. I'm seriously thinking about putting the GML strip in our new B room... pre, eq, comp, combo box. Have you ever used it?

I did get a chance to shoot out the 416 aginst our M149, and you we're totally rigth on that one. I have no idea what all the fuss is about. Why everyone is using them i have NO idea. I've always felt the same way about the U87 for VO to be honest. Way overrated for VO.

We actually went with the new TLM49 for the "B" room. It's actuially not a bad sound similar to the M149 we have in A. A little eq here and there, and I think I can make it match for pick up session should I need to... But make no mistake.... the M149 is better in every definable category. I will always use the M149 for ny VO work if "A" is available.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by 1destiny

I did get a chance to shoot out the 416 aginst our M149, and you we're totally rigth on that one. I have no idea what all the fuss is about. Why everyone is using them i have NO idea.

A little history. In LA, back in the early '80's, one of the prominent VO talent at the time (let's call him Charles) decided he was sick of taking shots of feedback in his cans. So he refused, from that day forward, to work with headphones. Since he was often working to picture, the only possible solutions were to a). give him a live speaker in the booth or b). have him -- horrors! -- sit next to the engineer and run the Auratones really low. Either way, as you can imagine, a super-dee-duper-directional mic was a pretty good idea. Since post houses all had 416's around (for matching production tracks), that was the obvious choice. Turns out Charles actually enjoyed the sound of his voice on that mic (no surprise, given that he enjoyed the sound of his own voice in general). Next thing you know, every big-deal VO guy in town is demanding the 416.

One of them -- call him Percival -- discovered that, by jamming a 416 right into the corner of his mouth like a plug of Skoal, he could talk so quietly you could hear his tonsils rub together. An ad guy up north, Harold, copped Percival's M.O., did the VO for a bunch of folksy TV ads for an abomination called the "wine cooler," and a whole new VO style was born.

Fast forward to now. Young pups like George and Ashton and Jonathan have mutated that technique into the style you hear every day in movie trailers and TV promos. It's pretty impossible to do with any other mic.

And one practical 416/VO benefit -- because it's so directional, it hears way less of a live room than most other mics.

[RichT]

Have you tried out / looked at the Buzz Audio ARC?

Cheers,
Rich