Help! - "Early Reflections" Vocal Sound with Waves Rennaissance Verb & Pitch Blender

[Rockman]

Hi guys,

I actually asked a similar question on another thread (Modern Rock Vocals)... and I got some helpful answers (but I was hoping for more specific info if possible)... So I thought I would start a new thread, dealing with the specific plugs I have...

Basically, the title of the thread says it all... I wanted to know if it was feasible, with just the Waves Rennaissance Reverb plug-in... and the Pitch Blender plug-in (the latter for slight harmonizing), to get that modern, dry (but not so dry) sounding pop/rock vocal sound... and more importantly, what settings do I use?

Of course, let's assume that I already have the vocal nicely compressed, and it sounds right up front... I usually use a vintage LA-3A, and I also use Rennaissance Compressor and L1 sometimes. Anyway, it's mainly the ambience aspect that I'm trying to learn about.

Any tips you can share with just those plug-ins? If you use these same plugs, I would appreciate it if you share your actual settings. That would be a big help!

P.S. I also have a Lexicon 300... but I generally use that for Rich Plate (overall reverb for various tracks in the mix)

Thanks!

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Basically, the title of the thread says it all... I wanted to know if it was feasible, with just the Waves Rennaissance Reverb plug-in... and the Pitch Blender plug-in (the latter for slight harmonizing), to get that modern, dry (but not so dry) sounding pop/rock vocal sound... and more importantly, what settings do I use?

Of course, let's assume that I already have the vocal nicely compressed, and it sounds right up front... I usually use a vintage LA-3A, and I also use Rennaissance Compressor and L1 sometimes. Anyway, it's mainly the ambience aspect that I'm trying to learn about.

First, you'll need to use the "talented vocalist" preset.

If you have that, then with the gear you all ready have, you should be 95% of the way there. If you aren't, then don't bother pushing record until you are!

As far as reverb, it all depends on the track. Nobody can possibly give you a suggestion as to exactly what settings to use all of the time. It's kind of like saying "I'm painting this picture, and I wanna know how much blue paint I should use..." If you use the CLA presets for the Waves SSL plugins on an Offspring track, would it sound like American Idiot?

Start with something short and subtle, and creep it up until it's not loud enough to be intrusive, but would be missed if you took it away. Try a plate. Just a starting place...

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Rockman

I wanted to know if it was feasible, with just the Waves Rennaissance Reverb plug-in... and the Pitch Blender plug-in (the latter for slight harmonizing), to get that modern, dry (but not so dry) sounding pop/rock vocal sound...

it'd be helpful if you gave an example of a song or two that exemplifies the sound you're going for. it'd be more helpful still if you posted a clip of a song you're trying to fit into that mold.


gregoire
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ubk
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[Rockman]

Thanks guys. Alex, what you're saying makes sense of course. I know there are no "one size fits all" reverb solutions. But I was referring to a general trend these days, of having pop rock vocals sounding dry... only they're not quite as dry as if there was absolutely nothing on them. Know what i mean?

Gregoire... thanks also. I think you're the one who answered my post on the other thread. In terms of examples of vocal sounds, here are a few below. I'm not implying that the vocal sounds are all necessarily the same in these songs... but I think they all have the basic characteristic I'm looking to get:


-All American Rejects - "Move along"

-Click Five - "Just the girl"

-Kelly Clarkson - "Since you've been gone" or "Behind these hazel eyes"

-Avril Lavigne - "Losing grip"

-Bryan Adams - "East side story" (from the "Room Service" CD)

-Fountains of Wayne - "Stacy's Mom"


Thanks.

[u b k]

alright, i stopped by itunes and this is what i hear:

all american rejects: verse has a small room or tight plate algo, more tc than lex; chorus has a short slapback delay with generous feedback fed into the same verb.

click five: actually sounds dry to me. there is just a superfine hair of room on the drums. i liked this tune, very 80's in a way that somehow doesn't offend me.

avril: standard short vocal verb and straight 1/8th delay. stacked vox, doubled or tripled or more.

kelly clarkson - lots of flanging in the verse, lots of delay in the choruses. loads of harmonies and vocal stabs everywhere that are even wetter than primary vox.

fountains of wayne: single slapback, no feedback.

i didn't listen to bryan adams because, well, let's just say i'm not a fan.

as you can see, there are many paths to the destination you seek. do yourself a favor and either get a box that does the center-cancel karaoke trick, or use phase plugs to do it yourself, and listen to your favorite recordings with all the mono information absent. your ears will be opened to a whole new world of engineering trickery.

fwiw, i was able to hear most of the above processing just listening to the track, because i know what to listen for. once you get some of these tricks in your toolkit, you'll start to hear them everywhere. they may all sound dry to you, but to me each one has a very different vibe and motion created by the subtle bed of simple fx tucked underneath.

good luck!


gregoire
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ubk
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[Rockman]

Gregoire,

Wow, thanks for taking the time to listen to these songs. I appreciate your time. I'm also impressed that you were able to determine what was done... Honestly, I can't hear what you're hearing. I thought I had good ears... but when it comes to subtle effects, I have a really hard time telling one effect from another... It's all very new to me. But I'm determined to learn.

Err.. Interesting idea about the phase cancelling thing, to get rid of the mono info. Once again, it's new to me. Do you know what plugs I can use for that? (I'm still running Pro Tools Mix Plus 5.1, on OS9).

Thanks again man!

Michael

[rodrigo]

Hi Rockman,

You don't need a plug-in for this really. Take any stereo file and import it to an audio editor like Peak. Convert stereo dual mono. You can do this by setting "convert stereo to mono" with the panning 100% to the left, then do the same with the panning 100% to the right. Save these two files. Import both files to your sequencer/DAW hard panned left and right so as to reproduce the stereo feeling.

Invert the polarity on just one of the channels. The center image will cancel itself and you'll hear the vocal effects, as they are usually not in the center. For more info, try Googling Ethan Winer's "The truth about vocal eliminators" or something of that sort. Good luck.

Cheers,

Rodrigo Montfort

[Rockman]

Thanks Rodrigo. I appreciate it. I actually don't have an audio editor. All I have is Pro Tools Mix Plus... as of now. And I'm very limited on budget... But I'll look into Ethan Winer as well.

Thanks again!

[tzujan]

Import the stereo audio file to two mono tracks in pro tools. Insert the 'trim' plug-in on both tracks, then flip the phase of one track. If you don't have 'trim,' then use the audio suit plug-in called 'invert' on one of the two audio files.

[Rockman]

Thanks man. I just figured it out. I imported into Pro Tools, separated the stereo file into 2 mono... and I have an "invert" RTAS plug (inverts phase). Works great, thanks. I've been listening to some of those songs I mentioned a few posts ago... interesting. I hear some chorusing (or I think that's what it is) on Kelly Clarkson... Bryan Adams on the other hand (the "East side story" song)... I almost hear nothing at all. Just a hint of short reverb (I think). Nickelback ("Photograph") is swimming in effects (but I could hear that in the normal stereo file anyway).

Definitely a learning experience for me. Thanks guys...