Mixing costs

[simonv]

Hi all..

How much does it cost (more or less) to get an album mixed on an SSL with great outboard gear and good monitoring?

I've never had an album mixed out the box before.

The band leader of one of my bands wants to cut costs on tracking and invest more in mixing, but I've been telling her that it's not a good idea..

Our budget for mixing is around 1500$.. For that kind of money, for a 10 song album, do you think we can get anything exept a dude in a crappy room with cracked plugins?


Any insights appreciated,
Simon

[heyman]

Well, that is not alot of money, but that could definetly buy you about 2-3 days in a high end place. You are gonna want to be there and work quickly obviously.

You are gonna want to go in with a plan of how you want it to sound and the right engineer should be able to help with that. Last thing you want to do is have some Pro tool files that dont sound right and need cleaning up.

So make sure your recording and whatever format the files are in are ready to go and dont need alot of tweaking.

Call around and get options. You may even squeak a week out of a Studio if they are slow or have a cancelled slot.
You could definetly mix 3-4 songs a day..!!

[soundeq]

A SSL room with a 9000j and decent gear is going to run you $1500 per day! so yah if you can mix all your songs in a day, I supose you could do it for $1500. (don't forget the engineer too, that $1500 ususally includes just an assistant) For your budget I'd stick with mixing ITB. The SSL isn't the end-all, be-all of a modern record either.
Find an engineer who digs your music/sound let him work on it when he gets some free time (in between full paying gigs) and give him a back end deal in addition to some up front money.

There's the rule of 3.... Good, Fast, and Cheap.... PICK ONE! maybe 2 tops if your willing to make a few sacrifices... You can't get all 3!

If you do a good job tracking, you won't need much to mix... I've heard some modern rock stuff that was tracked soo well, you could mix it by balancing the faders, and putting some 2buss compression and eq on it! Get it right the first time, don't try to "fix it in the mix" you won't be happy, or you'll end up hemoraging more money.

[flail19]

Originally Posted by simonv

How much does it cost (more or less) to get an album mixed on an SSL with great outboard gear and good monitoring?

I've never had an album mixed out the box before.

The band leader of one of my bands wants to cut costs on tracking and invest more in mixing, but I've been telling her that it's not a good idea..

Our budget for mixing is around 1500$.. For that kind of money, for a 10 song album, do you think we can get anything exept a dude in a crappy room with cracked plugins?


Any insights appreciated,
Simon

you may want to see this thread for some insight
Mix a home project through an SSL SL6000E, is it worth it?

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by simonv

The band leader of one of my bands wants to cut costs on tracking

awful idea.

is this "band leader" the singer, by chance? singers tend to suggest this because they get bored when the band is playing in the studio for 1-2 weeks and the lonely singer has nothing to do.

why not just hire one engineer in one room to do everything? someone who tracked the album will generally have a very good idea of how to mix it, being that he made every decision with microphones, preamps, and any dynamics and EQ that were used on the way in. he also knows the room in which everything was recorded.

[tgrokz]

come to my school. ssl 9000j and amazing amazing outboard gear.
and were getting a neve console next year.
god i love it here.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by simonv

How much does it cost (more or less) to get an album mixed on an SSL with great outboard gear and good monitoring?

anywhere from $1-3k for an indie guy, $5-10k for a name who likes your music, quite a bit more for a straight up deal with a name.

Originally Posted by simonv

I've never had an album mixed out the box before.

The band leader of one of my bands wants to cut costs on tracking and invest more in mixing, but I've been telling her that it's not a good idea..

you are right, your leader is misguided. all else being equal, well recorded tracks done in a good sounding room will mix themselves in a matter of a few short hours. mediocre tracks in a questionable room will require a lot of effort (i.e., time) by a talented guy to get them to gel, and it likely won't sound as good in the end.

Originally Posted by simonv

Our budget for mixing is around 1500$.. For that kind of money, for a 10 song album, do you think we can get anything exept a dude in a crappy room with cracked plugins?

Any insights appreciated

i've mixed albums that i like for less than that and handed back mixes that've made the artist cry. the thing to keep in mind is that the factors that impact the quality of your finished production are, IN ORDER:

1) song

2) arrangement

3) performances

4a) skills of the tracking engineer
4b) skills of the mix engineer

5) gear


so if your guy in a bedroom with cracked plugs is a balls-out badass knobtwiddler with a gift for the mix, and your guy in the ssl room is a bored halfwit who records other bands in an ongoing effort to ignore his own musical dreams, i know who i'd be hiring.

and nothing anyone does will get you to sound better than "budget" if your source tracks sound "budget".


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[djui5]

What exactly do you mean by "cut costs on tracking"? Does this mean tracking at a lesser studio with a cheaper engineer? If so, you need to put your money in tracking.

I'm feel funny saying this, being a mix engineer, but if you get the tracking right, and the songs are great, the rough mixes can a lot of time work well, especially if your not planning to commercially release the project. Well, hell, even then a lot of rough mixes made it to radio.

I'd put everything you have into tracking right now. Save up if you wanna have an outsider mix it.

BTW, I can mix in a great SSL room for $900 a song, including studio time.

[simonv]

Thanks for the input guys..
I basically wanted some new arguments to try to make the band leader change her mind. Yes she is also the singer. The frustrating part is that she doesn't have any band/studio experience, and I have TONS.

First....
I would probably do a GREAT job myself recording the album. I built a theoretical rental plan, and it would cost around 1500$ for 10 days, and we could head out a good-sounding room and spend 10 days recording the album. We're talking API/Neve/and other high end pres, high-end microphones, convertors, etc, etc. She doesn't have any trust in me because she hasn't seen me in action.. and the other day she was ready to hire some guy with a MOTU and Rode mics to do it. I managed to finally talk her out of that.... (She doesn't want me to record the album since i'll be a musician at the same time)

Second....
She paid 2000$ for a damn producer!!!!! Why?? Cause she wants a producer.. She was told that in the "industry", you have to have a producer when you make an album... The guy is a 35 y/o nobody who has some experience in producing, but he doesn't know squat about sound... The kind of guy that didn't ever do anything good, but has been lurking in the music scene for a while... and since he's getting older he decides to produce now.. The other day we where discussing our studio options and he was talking about the Mbox he's gonna buy, and how we could use it cause Pro-Tools is awesome... That guy is a waste of money completely... the only thing he's gonna do is offer advice about the songs themselves, which we can do ourselves, being 3 experienced professional musicians + singer.

Third...
Instead of letting me rent some Adams, a couple Manley EQs and compressors, and letting me do the mix, she wants to pay 1500$ for MIXING + MASTERING (yeah I forgot to mention... 1500 is for mixing PLUS mastering haha). (I've personnaly mixed a LOT of stuff in the past, and the only reason I'm not doing that for a living is because I got sick of all the asswipes, know-it-alls and mentally ****ed people in the music industry)



AHHHRG.. I'm so pissed!
Just yesterday I was arguing with the producer that we should either go a real studio in town, or rent the gear ourselves and get a tech to run the sessions. But he disagreed.. He "explained" to me how good pres, compressors and room are not that vital today because you can ADD WARMTH IN THE MIX.... with the console (haha)...

That's why I started this thread... just to know a bit more about mixing through SSLs and such.


What's REALLY frustrating is that I have no power over the final decision.. I'm just the guitar player. She's really believing anything he says, and doesn't really believe me because everytime I say something it sounds like I'm whining, confronting, or being pig-headed....

Sometimes I think I should just back off and play my god damn guitar and let her make all the mistakes in the book.

Arrgh.. Ok, i'm done venting off, thanks for listening :)

[redddog]

Singer and producer are idiots. Cut and run.

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by simonv

That's why I started this thread... just to know a bit more about mixing through SSLs and such.

Let me put it this way, I'd rather track with a Neve and mix on a Mackie than the other way around.

[u b k]

if you don't trust this woman to make basic decisions about the process of assembling a recording, why are you in a project with her? is she the "leader" simply because she's got the bread? how's that working out for you?

rhetorical question, i know.

listen, if you're already experiencing this much frustration, distrust, and poor communication at this stage (basic decisionmaking), you don't stand much chance of making it thru the actual process of recording an album. the studio has torn apart projects with a lot stronger foundation than yours.

either accept your leader's authority and submit to it, re-negotiate the lines of power so you have an acceptable level of voice and control, or walk away peaceably with the understanding that it wasn't right for either of you. your current path feels deeply unfulfilling; all this energy should be going into cooperation and creation of the art, not battling to be pack leader.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[simonv]

Originally Posted by u b i k

if you don't trust this woman to make basic decisions about the process of assembling a recording, why are you in a project with her? is she the "leader" simply because she's got the bread? how's that working out for you?

rhetorical question, i know.

listen, if you're already experiencing this much frustration, distrust, and poor communication at this stage (basic decisionmaking), you don't stand much chance of making it thru the actual process of recording an album. the studio has torn apart projects with a lot stronger foundation than yours.

either accept your leader's authority and submit to it, re-negotiate the lines of power so you have an acceptable level of voice and control, or walk away peaceably with the understanding that it wasn't right for either of you. your current path feels deeply unfulfilling; all this energy should be going into cooperation and creation of the art, not battling to be pack leader.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Great reply, thanks!

I'm in a project with her because she's a good friend, and she wanted me as a guitar player and as "all round technical guy that knows computers and recording, etc". She's the leader because it's really her project, and we're her musicians.

It's a one year project that's gonna end with the production of an album, and I'm gonna go through with it, but damn this is so frustrating to see a friend making mistakes.

Great third paragraph... you got me thinking...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by simonv

Hi all..

Hello.

Originally Posted by simonv

How much does it cost (more or less) to get an album mixed on an SSL with great outboard gear and good monitoring?

It depends.

Originally Posted by simonv

I've never had an album mixed out the box before.

Welcome to OTB.

Originally Posted by simonv

The band leader of one of my bands wants to cut costs on tracking and invest more in mixing, but I've been telling her that it's not a good idea..

Ummm....i don't like the sound of this.

Originally Posted by simonv

Our budget for mixing is around 1500$.. For that kind of money, for a 10 song album, do you think we can get anything exept a dude in a crappy room with cracked plugins?

Lets see $1500 for mixing 10 songs on an SSL...hmmmm....


Well i have 2 questions for you...

First of all is she really hot???

And is she a nympho that's into threesomes?


If yes to both questions above than the answer is yes i will consider it.


But i have to meet her first.

Originally Posted by simonv

Any insights appreciated,
Simon

Don't know if i helped much.

TTF

(P.S. If she is your wife, girlfriend or fiancee i was just kidding and all bets are off).

[simonv]

ehe, you got a laugh out of me. Thanks I needed that.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by redddog

Singer and producer are idiots. Cut and run.

It's show business, not show friends.

BTW: Are vocal tuning and drum editing involved in the "mix," or is this gonna be a case of "hit play and mix what's there"...? Are you doing the vocal edits/tuning?

[simonv]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

BTW: Are vocal tuning and drum editing involved in the "mix," or is this gonna be a case of "hit play and mix what's there"...? Are you doing the vocal edits/tuning?

Most probably Hit play and mix what's there. No vocal tunings, edits will be done during tracking.
We'll try all to record at the same time, and overdub from there.

[George Necola]

I can rent one for 600$/day

I wanna mix it for ya

[knightsy]

Originally Posted by simonv

That guy is a waste of money completely... the only thing he's gonna do is offer advice about the songs themselves, which we can do ourselves, being 3 experienced professional musicians + singer.

So let's hear some.... have you got a myspace page or anything?

[Thumper]

Pics of the hot chick?

[Crash]

I'm in a project with her because she's a good friend, and she wanted me as a guitar player and as "all round technical guy that knows computers and recording, etc". She's the leader because it's really her project, and we're her musicians.

You have offered your opinions until you are blue in the face it sounds like. I would remove myself from the recording aspect of it at this point and get the guitar parts down and leave it at that. I have been in situations that were similar and sometimes you just can't keep people from throwing themselves on their sword. It sounds like you are the one that is going to walk away with an ulcer ....is it worth it to you being that it is "her" project?

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by simonv

Our budget for mixing is around 1500$.. For that kind of money, for a 10 song album, do you think we can get anything exept a dude in a crappy room with cracked plugins?

haa..... no

probably not even with a "crack" dude

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Lindell

haa..... no

probably not even with a "crack" dude

Well, since I don't live from music (yet), I normally work at like 100/song. No cracked software, some nice outboard, but of course ITB summing.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by Crash

I would remove myself from the recording aspect of it at this point and get the guitar parts down and leave it at that. I have been in situations that were similar and sometimes you just can't keep people from throwing themselves on their sword. It sounds like you are the one that is going to walk away with an ulcer ....is it worth it to you being that it is "her" project?

now that all of the facts are in........this is the best advice i've read so far in this thread.

the fact of the matter is that it's NOT *your* project. she's a friend and you're essentially doing her a favor. are you even being paid for your time/talents? I would assume not. and even if you are, an ulcer's not worth it.

unless you want the friendship to go down in flames, your best bet is to tell her "look, i've given you my recommendations, but ultimately it's your decision and i respect that. so just let me know when it's time for me to cut my guitar tracks and i'll be there."

and from there, distance yourself both emotionally and physically from the project. if it does well, you'll at least have a credit for being the guitarist (and whatever else you bring). if it does poorly, she doesn't have you to blame.

i've been there, and down that road. it's not a lot of fun. i wish you the best of luck!


cheers,
wade

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by tgrokz

come to my school. ssl 9000j and amazing amazing outboard gear.
and were getting a neve console next year.
god i love it here.

Come to my school and work for FREE!!! ... we have toooooooooooooolz galore!!! We have really big boards and we even know how to program the automation... and next year we're getting a NEEV® which really shouldn't be confused with a Neve console from the 70's but I've never heard a NEEV® console from the 70's and it has the "N WORD" on it so it's gotta be the bestest desk in the whole damn western world by golly!!!

Just curious there tgrokz... did it ever dawn on you that you will be in direct competition with the underclassmen at your school upon your graduation... and the sad part is that they'll have the upper hand because they'll have just about as much experience as you have and they can work for FREE!!! ...which unless you have fairly affluent and somewhat stupid parents who will have you living and eating in their house while you work for peanuts means you're going to have to get a real gig that actually earns for you while you learn that knowing how to operate the hardware does not an engineer make... in fact, the most important thing you can learn toward being an engineer is what NOT to use and when NOT to use it... but I digress.

Congratulations on your impending NEEV®... that should be quite a treat!!