Great River 2NV vs. Vintage Design DMP

[soupking]

Both the Great River 2NV and Vintage Design DMP look like amazing work for the price if you want to take the Neve Replication/Modification route. If I were headed for a generous medium market pre in that vein I'd be dead-locked to make a decision.

This just seems like a classic "so much gear, so little time" situation that I couldn't resist asking:

Has anybody duked theez preez against one another?

[gainreduction]

Like a couple of other Gearslutz on this board I will always reply to a thread about the Vintagedesign pres.

The reason ? They rock !

I guess at least half of the people on this board are American and Vintagedesign, beeing hand-made in Sweden, hasn't had any proper distribution in the US yet.

This is probably the biggest reason why they aren't hyped and raved about on GS yet.

I actually think that Fletcher gave them a try but I don't know if they ever ended up in the Mercenary Audio store.

Ok, back to the pres.

Yes, it's a neve clone (the crowd goes ) but don't care about that.

The fact is, it's a great, musical preamp.

It's very well built and not compromised anywhere in the design.

You get St Ives x-formers, goldplated switches & relays , no BS parts anywhere in this box. The 2nd gainstage is there so you get 80dB's of pure class A gain.

It sounds awesome. Ballsy and up-front, not shy by any means.

It's very colored so it's not for the faint-hearted.

I don't care if it sounds like a Neve or not and I'm not taking part in such debate either, I love it for what it is.

I have two Vintagedesign CA73's (the 1073-strip, same preamp as in the DMP) and since I got them I have not even looked at preamps. It's everything I want in a pre. I'm buying more of them when I get some other stuff on the shopping-list out of the way.

Thomas at Vintagedesign is an enthusiast and as passionate about making this gear as we are using it. You'll probably get support for the rest of your (or his...) life.

Right now he's building me a custom "stereo-1272" that will replace the summing amps in my console.

As for the Great River there's tons of threads about it. Search...

PS. If I have the time, maybe I'll upload something recorded with the CA73.

[gainreduction]

Ok, here's a short snippet of acoustic guitars recorded with the vintagedesign pre.

24 bit wave, 44,1 kHz.

[soupking]

Um....Damn, that sounds good. To me, acoustic guitar really puts gear to a test. There's nothing tinny sounding at all. Very solid, holds the sound together. I'd imagine the gain on the box would hold under pressure as well huh?

So how would the usability compare with a Great River?

[sh101]

I just got my Vintagedesign CA73. It really sounds great! My Problem is: now i want a second one...

[jrt]

where can you get them here in the us? on the vintagedesign site it say mercenary carries them but on the mercenary site I can't find anything.

[gainreduction]

Send an e-mail to vintagedesign and ask about us-sales.

If there's not a distributor yet, you can probably get it directly from vintagedesign.

[OHA]

Vintage Design sounds great!

I checked CA73 against a Neve 1073DPD, and it's really close race. I prefered the DPD, but I could easily live withCA73;-) And the EQ is really nice

Then I tried the C1 (2254) compressor.. THAT ROCKS MAN!!! I didn't have a 2254 to compare to, but I prefered it over the 33609 on most sources..

The only thing that's concerns me with Vintage Design is the quality of knobs and pots.. It's a bit cheap to my taste..

[jdier]

Originally Posted by jrt

where can you get them here in the us? on the vintagedesign site it say mercenary carries them but on the mercenary site I can't find anything.

http://www.mercenary.com/vintagedesign.html

[bendecido]

fletcher seems to think that the mono version without eq of the ca73 the m73d doesnt sound good. but he loves the ca73. I cant figure how this works since they both utilise the exact same preamp stage. same components same everything.
<br>
I have a feeling this is cus its in direct competition with the great river me1nv and might even sound better- same price, same features, same size, both are based on the neve 1073 sound
<br>not surprisingly they dont stock the mono versions<br>
I lost any respect for him when he posted that.
,<br>
I know hes gota make a living but he figures no one will question him. I dont give a fuk who he is when sumin seems fishy ima give my opinion. It just seemed too much of a coincidence to me but then thats my opinion

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by bendecido

fletcher seems to think that the mono version without eq of the ca73 the m73d doesnt sound good. but he loves the ca73. I cant figure how this works since they both utilise the exact same preamp stage. same components same everything.

I have a feeling this is cus its in direct competition with the great river me1nv and might even sound better- same price, same features, same size, both are based on the neve 1073 sound

i really doubt Fletcher has an ulterior motive here. if he states he doesn't like the mono version he probably tested it and there is probably a reason for Mercenary not selling it.

whether you like it or not, Mercenary has the right to sell whatever they choose.


cheers.
~j.d.

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by bendecido

fletcher seems to think that the mono version without eq of the ca73 the m73d doesnt sound good. but he loves the ca73. I cant figure how this works since they both utilise the exact same preamp stage. same components same everything.

from Vintage Design's website:

M73 is based around the same circuit as in the DMP and CA73/81 preamp wish are updated designs off the vintage 10 serie channel amps, a three stage single ended class A preamp, transformerbalanced in/outputs with transformers from Carnhill/St'Ives.
In the DMP / CA models the extra 30dB gainstage is switchen in via the "very expensive" gainswitch at gainsettings over 50dB. In M73 the extra gainstage is switched in with a relay, controlled by a switch on the frontpanel. The use of Carnhill transformers gives the unit a fat warm bottom and a very pleasant character.

so they are NOT the same.


~j.d.

[bendecido]

its basically only a slightly different component (gain switch) when the gain goes over 50. so they are slightly different.but are the exactly the same until it goes over 50db gain.
Sorry i was misinformed. Ive still heard they are kiler pres tho. But as i sed is only my opinion.
Im sure hes a very experienced tech guru but i also heard about him cussing peluso mics because he had a bad relationship with john peluso so that led me to question his motives. thats what made me take his food for thought with a pinch of salt.

seen

[jdjustice]

bump....


i 'spoke' with Fletcher re: why Mercenary is not carrying the vintagedesign mono units.
he stated that the consensus at M-A was that they lacked in headroom:

We found the M-73D and M-81D [stand alone 'desktop' style units] didn't have the same kinda headroom and depth as the rack mount units. We have been in touch with the designer over at Vintage Design... he is making some changes to both of those units and hopefully that will be of the quality we expect from a product and will be added to the M-A site within a couple of months.

The Dual Mic Pre is pretty much 2x CA-73 pre's in a 1 RU enclosure... and sounds lovely.

i also recently exchanged PMs with Drew regarding why there is no DMP on the M-A website; he said that they would be stocking a few of the DMPs.

this is exciting to me because the DMP is one of the units i have been wanting to try out.
i now have to decide between the GR, the vintagedesign, or the Phoenix (there was another thread on this but, alas, it was locked.....).


keep the discussion going! i would love to hear more vintagedesign user feedback!

cheers.
~j.d.

[bendecido]

what did he mean by lack of headroom- lack of gain - lack of highs.
sorry im a musician not an engineer some of these terms are alien to me

blessings

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by bendecido

what did he mean by lack of headroom- lack of gain - lack of highs.
sorry im a musician not an engineer some of these terms are alien to me

'headroom' essentially is the amount you can 'drive' the preamp before you hear distortion.

here's a good article on that topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headroom


cheers.
~j.d.

[bendecido]

if i buy it luckily that wont concern me. <br>i normally have the gain for hip-hop vocals( what ill be using it for) on a neveish pre about 30 and a high output. I can c why sum rock guys might need alot of gain to get that really crunchy sound.
Im sure the headroom issue doesnt apply to the output stage because all that does is project and amplify the gain input.
blessings

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by bendecido

if i buy it luckily that wont concern me. <br>i normally have the gain for hip-hop vocals( what ill be using it for) on a neveish pre about 30 and a high output. I can c why sum rock guys might need alot of gain to get that really crunchy sound.
Im sure the headroom issue doesnt apply to the output stage because all that does is project and amplify the gain input.
blessings

On a Neve 1073 preamp, I usually need somewhere around 45-55 db of gain on hip hop vocals with condenser mics.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Ok, here's a short snippet of acoustic guitars recorded with the vintagedesign pre.

24 bit wave, 44,1 kHz.

That sounds fantastic. What mic? Any eq?

-R

[Labs]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

keep the discussion going! i would love to hear more vintagedesign user feedback!

cheers.
~j.d.

VintageDesign is an excellent company ,run by a really cool guy, who will never give you the least bit of problems. The pre sounded way better to me than a DRS2. The compressor he makes is insane.


I havent heard the small units, but maybe the lack of headroom is between the amount it costs Thomas to make them, and the amount mercenary can charge for them.

Gustav

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

That sounds fantastic. What mic? Any eq?

-R

Thanx.

The mic is a vintage Neumann cmv563 with M7 capsule. Can't remember if the eq was engaged or not. If it was, it's the eq on the Vintagedesign CA73 and used very subtly.

[Marjan]

I posted a few thoughts about the two somewhere in another thread... can't bother to do it again...

But since the topic mentions stereo units, I must add that the stereo image given by two GR channels makes you realize the Universe is actually bigger than you thought.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by bendecido

I know hes gota make a living but he figures no one will question him.

Fwiw, I've heard Fletcher recommend cheaper gear over expensive gear because he thought the cheaper choice would be more versatile...

I've generally found Fletcher and MA to be honest, which I really think people just aren't used to... If Fletcher said that he found one to be superior to the other and decided to carry the superior one... I'd probably believe that.