Rush Signals... Great sounding early digital recording I reckon!

[Blast9]

This came out in 1982?

Was just listening to Analog Kid, and personally I think it sounds great... Really punchy and detailed drums...

Actually, what's more intrersting about that track is the balances... drums are really loud and in your face!

Anyways, here's where I heard it http://www.progarchives.com/Progress...sp?band_id=609

PS anyone know whether Moving Pictures was a digital recording. there's areference to "computerised friends" Sony PCM-1600 digital recorder and digital editing and mastering by Peter Jensen (masterdisk I believe)

[Jay Kahrs]

I think Moving Pictures was cut to one of the first 3M or Mitsubeastie digital multi-tracks.

Either way it's one of my favorite Rush albums song wise. Signals doesn't do as much for me, I haven't been able to make it through that whole disc in one shot I think, ever! LOL

But yeah, Moving Pictures has a certain tone to it, a midrange "snarl" maybe. I always kinda loved the bass tone and the drums have a real snap & immedicay to them. Good stuff.

[Blast9]

Hey Thanks Jay

Totally agree on Moving Pictures, I never get tired of it either!

Have to admit I haven' t listened to Signals for years, and it was a chance stumble upon The Analog Kid, but I seem to recall it being synth-heavy.

[mds]

About six months ago there was a Rush thread on GS that got me digging into my Rush collection. It was great to listen to the 70s stuff, but I actually thought the stuff from Signals on sounded pretty crappy. They have this big thick haze on them I don't reallt dig...makes me feel like I need to clean my ears... I had more of a 'early digital was not all that happenin'' kinda of response...though MP sounds fantastic...great tunes throughout their career, though(aside from Rivendell). One of my alltime favorite bands...

Mike

[octatonic]

(...Wondering how long before someone mentions Vapor Trails...)

[Duardo]

Okay, I'll mention "Vapor Trails"...I think it just goes to show that it's the sword, not the swordsman..."Moving Pictures" being an early digital recording using the equivalent of 14-bit converters as I understand it (although it was mixed through an analog console) that sounds great versus "Vapor Trails", recorded with much "better" 24-bit converters but it still sounds like...

-Duardo

[u b k]

the drum tones on signals are incredible. the synth tones are fat, but the mixes are too murky and lack definition for my tastes.

the song about the space shuttle is a little silly, too.

moving pictures was an ssl 4k, no? sounds amazing, got that uber-wide inky black thing in spades.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Blast9]

bump

[Han]

Look at Moving Pictures in yer audio editor and suddenly you'll understand everything about loudness war.

I thought MP was recorded on tape, I have the original CD and the Vinyl (which sounds a tad better).

[wildstar]

Subdivisions = AWESOME

Just goes to show you that you don't have to gurgle and snarl like today's hard core and metal vocalists to deliver a scathing, agressive, hit-you-in-the-guts lyric. Go give Subdivisions a listen!

Signals is probably Rush's must underrated album. It's the bridge between the glory days of 2112–Moving Pictures and the... interesting albums that came later.

Cheers

[Blast9]

subdivisions vid on youtube

Love the bass tone and playing... The verse vocal deliveries always seemed a bit stiff to me, but I love the feel of the chorus --- smooth odd-time sig vibe./

But where the hell is the guitar, Geddy?tutt

[robdarling]

It is very unlikely that Signals was recorded to a digital multitrack. I can very clearly remember that the only DDD album I owned at the time was Brothers in Arms.

For those who are too young to recall, when CD's came out, it was considered important consumer information to know whether your disc was tracked or mixed digitally- so the letters were in production order- tracked/mixed to/mastered to - A vs. D. Of course all albums ended in D.

So, on that count, I'm 90% sure that Signals wasn't recorded to a digital multitrack. And listening to it, I'd be shocked anyway. Nothing that soft and round could come from a 32 track Mitsubishi digital. Put up Donald Fagen "The Nightfly", or Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" and the sound of digital multitracks becomes very, very clear.

Does anyone have an old copy that has the digital process info on it?

I don't know what Signals was mastered to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was analog. Neither Permanent Waves or Signals has the snap that Moving Pictures does, which I do know was recorded to analog multitrack but was mixed straight to 1630. I don't know what convertors were used.

I can actually remember always wondering why Permanent Waves, Signals and Grace Under Pressure sounded so fuzzy and soft compared to Moving Pictures.

Then there were the super tight and bright records that followed- Power Windows, Hold Your Fire, Presto, etc. Now THOSE I wouldn't be surprised to hear were digitally multitracked.

[audioez]

according to my cd collection power windows was the first all digital(DDD) rush album circa 1985. This was mentioned in a thread not too long ago.

RUSH concerts
-where else can you find a bunch of dudes doing single stroke rolls, standing up, holding no sticks, all from the comfort of their seats!

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by Blast9

subdivisions vid on youtube

Love that "Tempest" video game at the end. Makes me wanna dig out my Rush vinyl. 2112 (side one) and Moving Pictures were/are my favorites, although Big Money (Power Windows) starting out that one live album...what a great way to start out a show. Catching the high points from each record was always a better way for me to approach their catalog. I don't think I ever listened to a Rush LP all the way through, except the live ones (which are essentially greatest hits packages) or Moving Pictures. This in contrast to Zep or VH.

I have a thrift store find somewhere -- a catch-all LP from New Zealand that appears to be an early collection -- around the "All The World's a Stage" era. The cover photo is a live shot with MASSIVE backline (silver/blue Ampeg SVT stacks -- toggle switch, not rocker switch), with Geddy in a white flowing robe, I think. They were all dressed to the nines, to be sure. They always were, esp. in their more "concept rock" days.

And watching "Subdivisions" -- jeez, think about it: 3-5 years before, no sound RESEMBLING it -- on so many levels had ever been experienced by humanity. Anybody who does that in a remotely pop context today has my vote for "Artist of the Decade."

[kelldammit]

i do have the old cd's at home (1st run), and unless i'm mistaken, everything's aad up to power windows, which i believe is ddd. i'll confirm when i get home, but i'm pretty sure that's how they are. they were always pretty quick to embrace technology.
i also think that signals is probably a little "soft" sounding, but some of those songs are amongst my very favorites ever (subdivisions, the analog kid, losing it).
i dunno...i am rather a fan of neil's more concise lyrics. i also love the production on power windows/hold your fire. i'm not so much a fan of presto, though there are some great songs there (available light alone is worth the price of admission), i find it a bit mid/trebly, with no meaningful bottom. after that one, i pretty much lost interest.
30 years is an incredible run for any band, and i think they've contributed way more than their fair share of truly wonderful music.

[robdarling]

Originally Posted by audioez

according to my cd collection power windows was the first all digital(DDD) rush album circa 1985. This was mentioned in a thread not too long ago.

What was the coding on Signals? Was it mixed to analog or digital?

[wildstar]

Originally Posted by Blast9

subdivisions vid on youtube

Love the bass tone and playing... The verse vocal deliveries always seemed a bit stiff to me, but I love the feel of the chorus --- smooth odd-time sig vibe./

But where the hell is the guitar, Geddy?tutt

What a trip! Great video. Geddy is definitely one of my favorite synth players - I love his synth tones.

What's the red synth he plays for the lead? I think it's right above the Oberheim?

[Blast9]

Not sure... When did he start using the PPG stuff?

I think Signals is too early for PPG though.

Nord lead? --- That's red

[bleen]

Originally Posted by wildstar

What's the red synth he plays for the lead? I think it's right above the Oberheim?

Custom painted Minimoog.

[wildstar]

Originally Posted by bleen

Custom painted Minimoog.

Really? Cool!

I noticed the Moog-looking control panel above it, but thought "naw, that can't be a red Moog."

I guess if I were Geddy Lee, Bob would have painted my synth pink if I'd asked.

I'm ashamed to admit that my first thought, when I saw the red synth was, "cool, Geddy is playing a Nord Lead just like me!"

Um, not so much.

Cheers

[macr0w]

The one and only time I saw Rush live was the Signals tour in 82. They were awesome I can't tell you why I never saw them again.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by kelldammit

everything's aad up to power windows, which i believe is ddd.

that's 100% correct. power windows was Rush's first DDD recording. Signals was an analog recording.

Originally Posted by kelldammit

i also love the production on power windows/hold your fire. i'm not so much a fan of presto, though there are some great songs there (available light alone is worth the price of admission)

i too love the production on PW/HYF--definitely treats the songs in the light they needed to be treated. presto is one of my alltime favorite latenight driving albums. i can get lost in that one. Available Light is just a beautiful song and a perfect way to end that album.

Originally Posted by kelldammit

i find it a bit mid/trebly, with no meaningful bottom.

ah, yes, the famous Rupert Hine "mids as bass" complaint. even the band isn't too happy with the way that one turned out, but songs like Available Light, The Pass, and Anagram are fantastic--and that snare sound! wow! such great "pop" out of that snare.

Originally Posted by kelldammit

after that one, i pretty much lost interest.

i thought Roll the Bones had some great songs on it, Bravado is probably one of the best songs they've EVER written. Counterparts did nothing for me and T4E is wholly ok....but Vapor Trails is a fantastic collection of songs (sound be damned).

Originally Posted by kelldammit

30 years is an incredible run for any band, and i think they've contributed way more than their fair share of truly wonderful music.

agreed. and to think that they're in the studio recording something for early/mid 2007 release! Rush has always been my #1 mostest favoritest band, so anything they put out, i'm waiting for quite eagerly.


cheers,
wade

[kingofthecrate]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

(...Wondering how long before someone mentions Vapor Trails...)

HUGE RUSH FAN.... did not like the sounds of vapor trails at all.. I know im no ME god but you cannot feel the thump of pearts kit at all in that whole album. Now geddy on all previous albums, bass guitar can be heard thuroughly and stand alone on any other rush album. on vapor trails i feel its blended in behind everything else...


either way they are in the studio now and I hope we gett a better recording than vapor trails..


in my opinion.. (as far a digital recordings... presto and roll the bones sounded pretty damn clean to me)


I personally like permanent waves for analog

[feyshay]

In the basement bars, in the backs of cars, be cool or be cast out.
I liked Grace Under Pressure also. After that... I just can't get into it.
I guess Grace Under Pressure was analog too then? That game just after Signals.
Both those albums are great. Moving into the digital age.

[Allesmachine]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Not sure... When did he start using the PPG stuff?

I think Signals is too early for PPG though.

PPG was around in the 70's. The first digital wave computer 340/380 (1978) was used by Thomas Dolby on The Golden Age of Wireless in 1981 which coincidentally was also recording in Digital or at least mastered in Digital. PPG waves were definetly around in 1982.

[Duardo]

unless i'm mistaken, everything's aad up to power windows, which i believe is ddd.

I seem to recall reading way back when that "Moving Pictures" was the first album of theirs mixed to digital tape. I can't find the CD right now, but I do have an "Exit...Stage Left" CD which I purchased in 1987 or 1988 that is ADD.

-Duardo

[musicweapon79]

Hey guys,

A friend directed me to this discussion; hope I'm not arriving too late.

Speaking as the engineer who personally restored/archived these reels for the band, I can confirm that 'Signals' was definitely tracked to 2-inch 24 track, and mixed to 1/4-inch.

Both 'Grace Under Pressure' and 'Power Windows' were also tracked to 2-inch 24 track, but were mixed to 1/2-inch. These would return from Masterdisk on PCM-1610.

The first digital multi-track isn't seen until 'Hold Your Fire' (Mitsubishi 1-inch, 32 track).

(And be sure, they didn't leave anything to "fix-in-the-mix"!)

Hope this helps.
-Matt

Matt Antaya
Engineer / Archives
FogoLabs, Montreal

[Blast9]

Aha! Brilliant!

Thanks Matt.... At last!

I think they need to change their info at http://www.answers.com/topic/signals

So it looks like the digital element of Moving Pictures was at mastering stage

[robdarling]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Aha! Brilliant!

Thanks Matt.... At last!

I think they need to change their info at http://www.answers.com/topic/signals

So it looks like the digital element of Moving Pictures was at mastering stage

Actually, he has not said anything about Moving Pictures.

Matt, I recall an interview with Terry Brown saying that Moving Pictures was mixed to digital. Do you know if this is the case?

The quarter inch on Signals explains a lot.

I wonder how much an increasing SSL presence led to the softer and duller sounds of the records after Moving Pictures. "Synchronicity" has a very similar downturn in sonic power and clarity compared to previous Police records during a similar time period. The SSL was a very different console and I think it took people a while to figure out how to get the best out its postage stamp sized sweet spot. It would be interesting to know what parts of the production process fed these sonic characters.

best,

r.

[Blast9]

You're right... No mention of Moving Pictures here. I'm just assuming Moving Pictures wasn't digital apart from the mastering stage.

If they did record and mix analog, the only reason I can think of going AAD back then would be for editing tracks, editing start/end and sequencing of the album, then it would go back to tape I presume.

AADA ---> cassette or vinyl.

All conjecture at this stage.