Vocals in the control room - without headphones

[bassmac]

I want to try tracking vocals in the control room - without headphones. I remember reading something about flipping the phase on your monitors to reduce bleed - is that correct? How do you do that?

Any other suggestions would be cool too.

[e-cue]

The best way is to point both speakers toward each other with the singer in the middle. Use a mic that has good side rejection (like a ribbon). Flip one of the speakers out of phase.

Cheat as much as the vocalist will let you get by with (feed each speaker the same mono feed, roll off the top and low frequencies, etc).

[ToddF]

Just make sure you don't have something in the monitor mix too loud that won't be there in the end. Click track etc. You'll be surprised how a little bleed in the lead vox doesn't do anything bad when mixed. Todd F.

[stealthbalance]

that is how you do it , but for the life of me , how can anyone sit there between 2 speakers out of phase??? i certainly couldn't do it myself.
s

[Jules]

Or,

Filp phase on double tracks

Another tip - get the sound out in the recording area,(compression any eq etc) THEN bring the mic into the control room..

[Tim L]

I use an equi-distant triangle set up for this rather than opposite sides of the singers head. I find it's less weird on the singer.

If measured out right (speaker to speaker to mic capsule) you can even get away with using an omni (if required) depending on the room and how much cancellation you really need.

[BattleAngel]

As someone who generally doesn't like to use headphones myself when recording vocals, I usually just bring along my own little set of very small speakers and just turn the volume down. I don't even need to do it in the control room, I just need to basically hear the music, even a bare bones version, at a just audible volume purely for time purposes. I can't do headphones because it just messes with the way I hear my voice in a room and makes me sing weird. I've done it before with okay results I just really prefer not to if I can get away with it. The tricks everyone has mentioned sound really good but has anyone tried just using unobtrusive speakers at a level that won't bother anybody on a mix? I've actually found that a little bit of that stuff sounds cool- but then again my music is a little out there ;-)

[jbuntz]

Originally posted by Jules
Or,

Filp phase on double tracks

Another tip - get the sound out in the recording area,(compression any eq etc) THEN bring the mic into the control room..

I never thought of that! That probably kills room ambience too. I guess technically, if it's not doubled, you could run the take, and then do a "dead take" with no vocals, flip phase, then bounce to the other track before any processing.

[7rojo7]

this only makes sense.

[Bob Olhsson]

Flipping the phase of one speaker only works if the speakers are exactly the same distance and angle from the mike in a really dead environment. I used to use Auratones mounted on mike stands on either side of the singer's head out in the studio. In the control room, I found this created huge problems in the mix. The main concern is clean, in-phase leakage which will help create a nice "live" effect.

[Brad McGowan]

I recently tracked vocals in the control room without headphones, while the rest of the band played live in the other room. I didn't do anything tricky with flipping phase at all. I just set the mic equidistant from both speakers with the null of the mic pointed towards the speakers--it was a U99 in cardioid. I adjusted the level coming out the monitors so that it was loud enough for the vocalist to feel comfortable, yet wasn't too loud to cause a leakage problem. I have to say that the bleed in the track was pretty minimal and when the vocals were mixed into the track I couldn't even tell. Like Bob mentioned--the bleed has to be favorable and in phase with the rest of the mix.

Brad

[chessparov]

As a singer, I like to hear the backing tracks in mono either on only one side of the headphone, when self recording.

Then sing WITHOUT having hearing that vocal in the headphone,
with the other can off.
Easier to stay on pitch that way when wearing a headphone. (thanks for this tip Bob O. BTW)

If having a pro AE to record a vocal, however, prefer to try sans headphones first. I think it sounds better to record vocals and the
band at the same time anyway (generally) ala Sinatra, Elvis, et al.
Tends to bring about more passionate singing.

Chris

[Tim L]

Originally posted by Brad McGowan
... the bleed has to be favorable and in phase with the rest of the mix.

Absolutely, that's why measurements have to be accurate. If the "speaker flip" thing is done correctly than all you have is room reflections to deal with. Reflections can be 'phasey' at times regardless of the speakers polarity. The couple of times I've had occasion to do this I didn't have any noticeable problems with bleed/phase in the mix. I'm certainly not trying to second guess Bob (especially considering I was an infant when he got into this game) but I have had this work pretty well for me. I found I just had to be careful with the set up.

[Jules]

'Filp phase on double tracks"

"I never thought of that! That probably kills room ambience too. I guess technically, if it's not doubled, you could run the take, and then do a "dead take" with no vocals, flip phase, then bounce to the other track before any processing."

Missing of course is the whackyness that a compressor can have on the bleed.

With the singer missing, the bleed isnt EXACTLY the same and that messes with the phase.... Still, ALL these are work arounds and only work to some degree...

I recorded Sade once who used only one speaker on the floor faceing up at her to listen to, she sat while singing... NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT!

[Bob Olhsson]

Before around 1966, almost nobody used headphones. When we put in our headphone system, we tried hanging binaural mikes in the studio and each iso room. A cool idea that fell flat on its face...

[chessparov]

Jules (and anyone else), any further tips on the "one speaker" method? (distance/mic used, etc.)

Chris

[bassmac]

Interesting...

The reason I brought this up is because I feel like I can stay on key better without cans - and struggle a lot with em'. Good to know I'm not the only one.

Also... I seem to find it easier to sing while playing guitar at the same time. I guess it just comes down to doing what's most natural for you - and not others, and if singing and playing at the same time w/o cans is natural - then an iso booth w/ cans and no guitar is very unnatural - to me anyway.

Great suggestions here - looking forward to using them.

[Bob Olhsson]

The phase relationship between the mike and the speakers or cans can make a huge difference to a singer. Most people also play or sing better in tune without hearing any of themselves in the cans or monitors but few are willing to trust that they do which creates a confidence problem.

[Henrik]

So when you record a singer w/o headphones, do you also put the vocal in the monitor? Or the singer just hears her-/himself in the room?

Cheers
/Henrik

[chessparov]

Better simply to just hear yourself sing IMHO.

Chris