Patch bay? or custom XLR bay?

[TheReal7]

I have no experience with patch-bays, but I will soon need something.

Here is a list of the gear I will be using

2 Germs i/o = 4 xlr
Bass RBI i/o = 2 xlr 1 ¼
Tape emu i/o = 4 xlr
Distressor i/o = 2 xlr
EQ (don't have yet) i/o = 4 xlr (if I get 2 or a stereo EQ)
Rosetta 200 i/o = 2 (analog in, will be using SPDIF out)

Should I get a patch bay or should I make a custom one with a bunch XLR connectors and make my own jumper wires?

I have no problem making my own, but a custom would need 2ru space as apposed to a patch-bay using only 1ru.

What kinda of costs am I looking at here? What patch-bay do you recommend?

Been searching/reading on here on patch-bays and it is all overwheliming to me. I think I would be best to just make a custom 2space patch-bay with XLR jack flush mounted and go from there.

for the most part, i wont be having to patch this and patch that often, but don't want to be hassled with getting to the back of everything, every time I need to change the signal rout.

[nathanvacha]

Well first off, not everything that's got xlr plugs will need xlr's on the front.

I would get a little patch panel that has xlr inputs on it that are hardwired to the inputs of your pre's...

and then the outputs from those to the top row, first set of jacks on your patchbay...

normalled in the row underneath to either the line inputs on your rosetta or the line inputs on something else, e.g. distressor...

and then the line outs of the distressor wired to the top row a few jacks down (to leave room for expansion maybe to the rosetta... and anything you just patch in and out place near the other end and do not normal those... just leave them for straight through patching...

make sense at all?

[TheReal7]

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

Well first off, not everything that's got xlr plugs will need xlr's on the front.

I would get a little patch panel that has xlr inputs on it that are hardwired to the inputs of your pre's...

and then the outputs from those to the top row, first set of jacks on your patchbay...

normalled in the row underneath to either the line inputs on your rosetta or the line inputs on something else, e.g. distressor...

and then the line outs of the distressor wired to the top row a few jacks down (to leave room for expansion maybe to the rosetta... and anything you just patch in and out place near the other end and do not normal those... just leave them for straight through patching...

make sense at all?

Thank you. I am getting the jist of it. Basically I am thinking, just bring all the I/O's I will need to the front for easy patching. Now this term "normalled" I dont understand. I've seen it on other patch bay threads but forgive my ignorance as to what it means.

[nathanvacha]

basically it means that the vertical pairs of jacks, one and the one underneath it pass signal... this is why you also see "outputs over inputs" written in other threads. normalling saves you patch cables, which saves you $$$... especially the more gear you have. without normals, you would need at least twice as many cables... which adds up when you have lots and lots of gear.

say you have a preamp that is almost always, 9 times outta 10, routed to one certain compressor or one channel of a/d or something... you would put the output of that preamp wired to the top jack and a cable going from the bottom jack, right underneath it, to the input of whatever comes next... that compressor or converter input or something. now, if it's normalled, the jacks are wired so that the signal passes that way until a jack is inserted.

putting a patch cable/plug into one of those jacks, though, moves the tabs out of the way and disconnects the normal so that the signal chain is broken so that your signal may be routed to or from another place.

So if the preamp was normalled to a converter but you wanted to compress or eq to tape, you would only need to patch the output of the pre... top jack... to the input of the compressor and the output of the compressor to the bottom jack.... or input of the a/d converter, ya'dig?

now there are several other options in the normalling of your bay, too, so keep an open mind there for a bit. soooooo many options. For your bay though, I would normal some and leave the "sometimes-used" pieces not normalled at all and only use them as an extension of the rear panel jacks. comprende?

[TheReal7]

Ah yes. I understand now. Thank you .


So the top top jack would be different from the bottom as in a physically different part?

[quincyg]

believe it or not hosa makes a nice xlr patchbay. only good hosa product i have bought.

[TheReal7]

I am still a little confused. I understand the Normals I think. Normal is basically hard wired to a particular device (ex. compressor) then when you patch in, it breaks the connection.

My question is this, how is this all wired? Does someone, or could someone, have a wiring diagram? Are the jacks (over) physically different the the jacks (under/normalled) different? I am heading to the music store tonight to get prices on parts and want to know what I am gonna me ordering.

thanks.

[orange]

are you thinking of making your own - if so you need jacks with switchable contacts. The jacks at the bottom are the same as the jacks at the top. It's just that they push open a contact and break the 'normal'.

Can I suggest that if that makes no sense you should buy a complete ready made patchbay - it will probably work out about the same price as buying the parts and making your own.on the more consumer orientated 1/4" jack patchbays there is usually a switch or something just as simple to make the normalisation work.

si

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by TheReal7

Ah yes. I understand now. Thank you .


So the top top jack would be different from the bottom as in a physically different part?

no, normalled means the top and bottom jacks are connected until you insert a plug. a plug physically pushes something aside that disconnects the tab that connects the two... it's spring loaded... kindof like the opposite of how a guitar pedal only turns on/uses battery when a plug is inserted into the input...

think of a normalled patchbay as an insert jack on a mixer except it has separate send/return jacks instead of using the tip and the ring for send and return... capiche? (probably didn't spell that right)

[TheReal7]

Thank you guys. I do believe I 100% follow it all now


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec9...s/patchbay.htm

I found this diagram and with the info there and on this topic. I got it . Gonna order me some supplies :D



Is there a particular name for a normalled XLR jack?

[orange]

Originally Posted by TheReal7

Is there a particular name for a normalled XLR jack?

unfortunately there is no such thing - or at least I've never seen one ! The design of the XLR doesn't lend itself to the switching required for normalling.

For Line levels signals (ie. NOT microphones) you should stick to 1/4jack or bantam or typeB jack NOT XLR.

You need a balanced jack patchbay - the XLRs on your kit will work with this perfectly (trust me I'm a doctor).

si

[orange]

AND

I'm not specifically recommending behringer but something like this will be fine to get you started...

http://www.behringer.com/PX1000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

at $35 you couldn't buy the parts cheaper.

check the manual (pdf) download to give you and idea of how they work.

You might feel that you wanna spend a bit more and get something decent but you can see the kind of thing you should buy..


si

[TheReal7]

Thank you. After doing more researching I think I will go the over the counter route.

Would this serve me well?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NYSPP/


or would this be a better option:
http://home.flash.net/~motodata/patc...arterinch.html (the second one)

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by TheReal7

Thank you. After doing more researching I think I will go the over the counter route.

Would this serve me well?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NYSPP/


or would this be a better option:
http://home.flash.net/~motodata/patc...arterinch.html (the second one)

yes, but WAY too expensive that neutrik should be half that.
that is what they go for in europe, at least.

the first picture in the second link is a "longframe" patchbay. not the same as TRS Jacks!

Get one of the mr. patchbay prewired TRS ones. much much much better quality than the neutrik.
neutrik plugs are the best, but their patchbays are budget. their TTs are better.

[orange]

just to confirm.

There are various types of patchbay.

TT (tiny telephone = bantam)
1/4" jack
1/4" jack longframe (or type b) - looks similar to a standard 1/4" one but ISN'T
XLR
din
etc
etc

If you are on a budget then your best bet is a 1/4" jack
http://www.zzounds.com/item--NTKNYSSPPL
if you are on a tighter budget then
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHPX1000 at £29.99 with free shipping is CHEAP

[nathanvacha]

Those cheaper ones will wear out before long... so just be aware that if you go that route, it is indeed a temporary solution. If you invest for, say, one of those switchcraft bays on that website, you will have to solder the wiring on the back -- this being the downside. The upsides are that it will last you for years and years (you do need to clean it, though) and it will actually save you money. If you use one of those bays that has jacks on the back, you have to have jacks that plug into the back. This means that you need twice as many ends as you would otherwise... a.k.a. whole cables as opposed to a half-cable that you just solder to the terminals on the back... Those are what separate the professional bays from the "amateur" versions, i guess...

[TheReal7]

Thank you all. I got the neutrik one. It was $60 cdn here. Cheap enough. Mine won't got too much wear and tear as this is just a hobby thing for me. It will do me great for quite a few years I am sure. If I need something better down the road, I will invest more into one

Thanks again for all the help/advice.