Gefell User/Owners - can you help me out!

[drBill]

Hi Guys -

I have the opportunity to get a bunch of very good to excellent condition Gefell mics. (Probabaly 10+) There are 3 models. All are solid state phantom powered, probably at least 10 years old (more likely 15+ years or so), and have cannon/xlr connectors. They all come in nice light colored wooden boxes. Two I'm pretty sure I know exactly what they are, the third, I'm not sure. They are:

UM70 (I didn't see T or an S in the designation. They are slim silver body, Screw on Multi Pattern "1960's TV station looking" capsule with silver front & black back, HP filter, -10dB pad) From what I understand they have the M7 capsule (ala U47)

UM71 (Same as above, but with all silver capsule - cardiod only) Does this have the M7 capsule as well or ???

??? Mystery Gefell mic. This looks similar to a front address small diaphram condenser like a KM84, but is a little longer than a KM84 and probably twice as big around (maybe an inch+ or so.) Kind of a fattie. ;-) I thought it said "M70", but from what I have researched, I believe that is just the capsule. (Cardiod) It is a sort of dingy black color that scratches off fairly easily (some of the mics had nicks in the black finish).

What can you tell me about the history, best uses and value. I may just buy a few or the whole box. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. TIA!!!!

Bill

[drBill]

OK, I found out that the newer models with the "T" designation are "transformerless". What does the "S" designate? And doesn't anyone have any idea what these are worth??

[wwittman]

The UM70 and 71 are great mics, and yes, both with M7 capsules...


if the pad and roll-off switches are two small rectangle sliders in the rear, it's a transfomer model

if the switches are in a small oval cutout, it's a newer transformerless model

the M300 (KM-84 looking affair) is less spectacualr in my opinion

at one time I believe there WAS both a UM70 and UM70s , the S being the low noise variant


I'd guess the 70's are worth about $800-1000, the 71 about $650-900

I use them on almost EVERYTHING

[drBill]

William, thanks for the quick reply. Good to know what the S designates!

The KM84-ish mics are not the M300. They are older, fatter and I believe they have a removeable capsule. I wish I'd grabbed a few so I could take pics and know the exact model #'s, but.....

[djui5]

Originally Posted by drBill

??? Mystery Gefell mic. This looks similar to a front address small diaphram condenser like a KM84, but is a little longer than a KM84 and probably twice as big around (maybe an inch+ or so.) Kind of a fattie. ;-) I thought it said "M70", but from what I have researched, I believe that is just the capsule. (Cardiod) It is a sort of dingy black color that scratches off fairly easily (some of the mics had nicks in the black finish).

Bill

UM92s

http://www.immersivestudios.com/imag...fell92s(3).jpg

That studio I sent pictures of has one

[drBill]

Originally Posted by djui5

UM92s

http://www.immersivestudios.com/imag...fell92s(3).jpg

That studio I sent pictures of has one

Nope - that's not it. Thanks for the effort though.... ;-)

It's a front address, sdc. Well....kind of a big sdc. Anybody else want to have some input. Like I said, I believe it had a M70 capsule. (I think it screwed on, but I didn't try to take it off.)

[mr.gefell]

i would like to help but a picture or two would be great

[djui5]

http://www.tidepoolaudio.com/gefell.htm

http://www.elektroakustika.cz/images/cmv/m582_m62.jpg

http://www.profiaudio.com.pl/produkt_id.php?id=42



Is it there?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mr.gefell

i would like to help but a picture or two would be great

Yeah, I know. I'm kicking myself for not bringing a few with me to take a pic of and listen to. Soon hopefully.

Does anyone know if the MV692 or M582 have Cannon/XLR's on the output? I'm pretty sure that whatever the body was, it had a M70 capsule.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by djui5

http://www.tidepoolaudio.com/gefell.htm

Is it there?

No, but the M300 is the closest thing to it that is in their current line. I think it's a little fatter body though, with a removeable capsule.

[Frost]

The 691 and 692 can have a wide range of connectors, but most have been modified to run p48 and have a standard xlr. The 582s I have seen all have what is commonly and incorrectly refered to as a tuchel connector which is common in older gefell tube mics (same as the 563, and UM57) because the 582 is an older gefell tube mic. The 692 can be distinguished by its rolloff and pad switches. The large diaphrams are amazing if in good condition tho they dont sound like a U47 even tho its the same capsule. They are clearer and more extended on the top tho not as euphoric. I never thought they were a money channel vocal mic till I used one with a telefunken preamp. Now I have changed my mind. I also have a bunch of small diaphram card and omni caps. I like the omnis but havent found much use for the cardiod caps. If anyone wants to trade some of my cardiod small diaphram caps for another Large Diaphram Im game

Enjoy the mics
Frost

[Doublehelix]

I just picked up a UM71 with the M7 capsule, and I have to echo what William says. These things are *great* on everything!

I have used mine on male rock vocals, and on a young girl's vocals, and it shined on both. It is more up front and articulate than a U87, yet not harsh or sibilant. Very, very cool!

Also, we have been using it for the last couple of weeks on electric guitars matched with some other dynamics (Sennheiser e906, Beyer M201 and/or Sennheiser MD421), and it really kicks some serious butt there too!

I love this mic, and for the price, it is an absolute *steal*!!! Run, don't walk in that direction!!!

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by drBill

OK, I found out that the newer models with the "T" designation are "transformerless". What does the "S" designate? And doesn't anyone have any idea what these are worth??

Ok....first things first.. "S" designates 80 Volt Capsule Polarization, as opposed to the 60V polaraization of the GDR days. All of the gefell mics that use 80v polarization have S in the nomenclature.

Now, for the "mystery" mic, I need you to look on the bottom of the mic, and tell me what you see(near the XLR connector) ..there will be either a MV with 3 numbers and a serial number or an M with 3 numbers and a serial number..

Preliminary feelings are that it is the old SMS70 series, a modular series that had cardiods, omnis, and shotgun capsules.

Get back to me about the bottom of the mic and we can go from there.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by drBill

OK, I found out that the newer models with the "T" designation are "transformerless". What does the "S" designate? And doesn't anyone have any idea what these are worth??

The *S* stands for super. Really, the Gefell UM70 and UM71 are really excellent mics. The UM70 being multi pattern, while the UM71 is cardioid only.

The mystery mic is probably an MV691 or MV692. If there is a roll off and a pad switch on the bottom of the mic body, then it is an MV692. The M70 is a small nickel diaphragmed capsule with a pretty linear response. very nice sounding capsule and mic. If the capsule threads on or off than it is for sure the modular SMS series. Does the mystery mic have XLR or weird old 7-pin connectors? If it is XLR than it is a newer Gefell or has simply been converted. The M582 is a tube mic running off an EC92 tube and uses a 6-pin connector, not 3-pin XLR or Cannon. Another tip is to look and see if the mic says made in GDR or just Germany. The older ones being made in former Eastern Germany or GDR. These mics are great so enjoy your find!

If I had nothing but UM70s mics, I would not complain as I use them and like them on everything. I like the UM70 capsule paired with the M582 tube body on overs, room, in front of amps, vocals ect. Same with the solid state versions.

[T.RayBullard]

this photo help, Bill???Like Colin Said, it is probably the mv690, 691 or 692...the DEFINITE way to tell is to look at the numbers etched on the bottom of the mic, but this picture may help..

[IMG][/IMG]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

The *S* stands for super. Really, the Gefell UM70 and UM71 are really excellent mics. The UM70 being multi pattern, while the UM71 is cardioid only.

The mystery mic is probably an MV691 or MV692. If there is a roll off and a pad switch on the bottom of the mic body, then it is an MV692. The M70 is a small nickel diaphragmed capsule with a pretty linear response. very nice sounding capsule and mic. If the capsule threads on or off than it is for sure the modular SMS series. Does the mystery mic have XLR or weird old 7-pin connectors? If it is XLR than it is a newer Gefell or has simply been converted. The M582 is a tube mic running off an EC92 tube and uses a 6-pin connector, not 3-pin XLR or Cannon. Another tip is to look and see if the mic says made in GDR or just Germany. The older ones being made in former Eastern Germany or GDR. These mics are great so enjoy your find!

If I had nothing but UM70s mics, I would not complain as I use them and like them on everything. I like the UM70 capsule paired with the M582 tube body on overs, room, in front of amps, vocals ect. Same with the solid state versions.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

this photo help, Bill???Like Colin Said, it is probably the mv690, 691 or 692...the DEFINITE way to tell is to look at the numbers etched on the bottom of the mic, but this picture may help..

[IMG][/IMG]

Ahh, yes. Now we're starting to get somewhere! The MV690/691/692 look like it's the one. But I don't see the M70 capsule there. I originally thought it was an M70 mic, because that's the only designation I saw on the mic. (But I'm guessing that it was actually the capsule.) Now that I know to look down by the bottom I will find out exactly what it is after I get my hands on one. I need to do some recording next week and will try to pick up a few before then so that I can try them out.

T.Ray - any idea what a MV69x + M70 capsule is worth? Thanks for all your help guys. I can't imagine finding out this stuff any other place than here!! You guys rock! Looks like I will need to get at least a couple of the UM70's and possibly more.

Any thoughts about whether you guys like the transformer model (UM70) better than the transformerless (UMT70)??

I will definately update this thread when I get pics and find out for sure what the mystery mic is. Thanks again. Bill

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

The mystery mic is probably an MV691 or MV692. If there is a roll off and a pad switch on the bottom of the mic body, then it is an MV692. The M70 is a small nickel diaphragmed capsule with a pretty linear response. very nice sounding capsule and mic. If the capsule threads on or off than it is for sure the modular SMS series. Does the mystery mic have XLR or weird old 7-pin connectors? If it is XLR than it is a newer Gefell or has simply been converted. The M582 is a tube mic running off an EC92 tube and uses a 6-pin connector, not 3-pin XLR or Cannon. Another tip is to look and see if the mic says made in GDR or just Germany. The older ones being made in former Eastern Germany or GDR. These mics are great so enjoy your find!
.

Colin, thanks! I believe it did have the roll-off and pad switches, so I'm thinking it's the MV692. Definately solid state though, so not the 582.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by drBill

T.Ray - any idea what a MV69x + M70 capsule is worth? Thanks for all your help guys.

It depends if it has been converted to 48v or not. If it is older style, figure about $500ish with power supply and about the same if it is a 48v version. As long as some hack didn't do the 48v conversion and it was done properly you should be ok. If it is a newer stock XLR MV692 it should be maybe $550ish.

[T.RayBullard]

I like pretty much all of the MG mics, they all have their uses. um70 is just a different flavor than the umt70. Id go for the umt when clarity and precision, is important, and the um70 when I want some cream or "punch"....Colin was right on with pricing. The highest ive seen on go for is around 650 or so, pristine condition, all MG maintained and modded... Gefell will still do p48 mods and upkeep of the mics,so no worries about maintenance. Also, Peter Drefahl is a great mic technic...he has done several things for me.

Originally Posted by drBill

Ahh, yes. Now we're starting to get somewhere! The MV690/691/692 look like it's the one. But I don't see the M70 capsule there. I originally thought it was an M70 mic, because that's the only designation I saw on the mic. (But I'm guessing that it was actually the capsule.) Now that I know to look down by the bottom I will find out exactly what it is after I get my hands on one. I need to do some recording next week and will try to pick up a few before then so that I can try them out.

T.Ray - any idea what a MV69x + M70 capsule is worth? Thanks for all your help guys. I can't imagine finding out this stuff any other place than here!! You guys rock! Looks like I will need to get at least a couple of the UM70's and possibly more.

Any thoughts about whether you guys like the transformer model (UM70) better than the transformerless (UMT70)??

I will definately update this thread when I get pics and find out for sure what the mystery mic is. Thanks again. Bill

[drBill]

Hi Guys! Thanks for all your help! Much of the mystery has has now been revealed.

1.) The Mystery Mic black small diaphram mics have been revealed to be black MV692 P48 bodies with M70 cardiod capsules - 29xx & 33xx serial #'s.

2.) What I originally thought were UM70 mics actually turned out to be silver satin MV692 P48 bodies with UM 70 Capsules with Omni / Cardiod / Figure 8 Patterns - 87xx serial #'s.

3.) The UM71 mic did indeed turn out to be silver satin M 71S P48 Mic with Non-removeable Cardiod only Pattern Capsule - 41xx serial #.

So, I now seem to have 3 different versions of Gefell mics. I'm not sure if the MV692's are transformer balanced or not, but I am pretty sure that the UM71S is the transformer balanced 80v polarization low noise version.

So is that confusing enough??? Based on the latest update, do you have any updated thoughts on the value of the mics? Again, thanks for all your help in indentifying the mics and placing a rough value on them. Cheers!!!

Bill

[drBill]

PS - Can't wait to try these out against my KM84's & highly tweaked U87 on my lame voice and on a great sounding martin AC Gtr. Will report back on that. Also sometime next week I'm going to try the UM70's as room mics and drum overheads. Maybe the 692/M70 as toms /snare as well.

[alnico]

The UMT70S are great room mics in a great room! I threw them up as an experiment instead of various ribbons and I'll being using them instead of for now...

[gevermil]

Wait - me confused .
The UM70/71 is the m7 cap correct ?
Or is this a mic body style

[drBill]

It's pretty confusing. You can get a UM70 that's just a capsule and needs something line a MV692 body, or a UM70 that's the complete microphone. My UM70's are just the capsule and they are running on MV692's.

The UMT70S is transformerless. The UM70 is the orginal w/ transformer. The UM70S has the transformer, but quieter electronics. All have the M7 (ala U47) capsule. All look like weird 1960's TV microphones. LOL!

I just tried a C451EB, KM84, Gefell MV692/M70, Gefell UM70/MV692, and my beloved highly modded U87 that's waaay open on the top end thru API 512's on Ac Gtr. Had my wife do a little fingerpicking and strumming. All the Gefell's/Neumann's were definately in the same family. Slight voicing differences, but definately siblings. The C451 stuck way out as an outsider. Nice, but way different. The nice thing is that the MV692/M70 fits nicely between the KM84 and C451 in terms of brightness. I'm not sure it would be my go to mic, but if you need something with more lift than a KM84, and the C451 is too bright, it's a good bet that the MV692/M70 will fit the bill. For lack of a better term it sounds a little more "constricted" though. However she buzzed on note pretty bad and it sounded hideous on the U87, not good on the UM70 and KM84, but way toned down and almost acceptable on the M70. Very cool. Interesting sound with the nickel cap. Different - yet the same. ???

The U87 compared to the UM70 is scarey close. The mids and upper's are very close. Keep in mind my U87 is modded and very open. the bottom end was a bit "woofier" or some might say "warmer" on the U87. But they are definately in the ballpark. It's been a long time since I had a stock 87, but if I did, the UM70 might win out on a lot of things.

So, there you have it. Drums and room later next week.

bp

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by gevermil

Wait - me confused .
The UM70/71 is the m7 cap correct ?
Or is this a mic body style

UM stands for multipattern..FWIW.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

UM stands for multipattern..FWIW.

Ahhh, makes sense. That's why the "UM"71S isn't really a UM. It's an M71S. Maybe it makes more sense if you speak German.

[C/G]

Good score. You have the SMS system with modular capsules. Very versatile. The UM71s is not transformerless unless there is a *T* in there like UMT 71 ect. Going by your description, you have an UM71s, so it has a transformer in it. Try the MV692 with M70 on snare. I really like small condensers on snares lately.

[T.RayBullard]

i had hoped to keep them a secret.

now I need to run to ebay and buy them all.