Login / Register
 
Is Re-Amping Cheating?
New Reply
Subscribe
#211
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #211
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,448

henryrobinett is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Is it actually the case that what gets recorded by the DI is anything at all like the actual feedback? Feedback happens in the air. Yeh, the DI would record the vibrations of the strings, and the energizing of the strings by the feedback. But that's not really any different from what might happen if you held a vibrator to the back of the guitar body. The actual feedback that occurred happened in the air, because it's completely dependent on the relationship of the guitar and amp. The original could have been a long, slowly mutating squeal and growling affair, which the DI would just record as an oscilating sustain of the string, right?
Yeah but for some reason when I use my Fractal AxeFx II and re-amp that -- when I get sustain and feedback and re-amp it later I can still get that same feedback, depending upon the settings. I don't understand it technically, but there it is.
Quote
1
#212
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #212
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,327

barryjohns is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Yeah but for some reason when I use my Fractal AxeFx II and re-amp that -- when I get sustain and feedback and re-amp it later I can still get that same feedback, depending upon the settings. I don't understand it technically, but there it is.
I love ya' Henry, but that is a stretch. I guess it all depends on what we perceive as feedback. A squeal, yep, for sure, and maybe that is what you meant.

To me feedback is between the pickup and the amp, and in reamping, that is not doable. Well, unless you maybe have the monitor in the same room as the amp cabinet, but that is a stretch.
__________________
PTHD10/11, HD3pcie, Digi 192 I/O 16 in/8 out, Lynx Auora 16, Digi Pre, BAE Lunchbox full, MacPro, MacBook Pro, Digidesign Pro Control
#213
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #213
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfromwhere View Post
Re-amping is pretty much a necessity in commercial music production.
Have a track finished in 2 hours.
Now mic all your cabs, record a live drummer, etc.
I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've re-amped something in 10 years. Of commercial music production.

Not entirely sure how you finish a track, THEN record the drummer though!

I frequently sketch things out di, then re-record with real amps - but that's for my playing, not the band.

The only time I'd record a part from a band member without an amp is for guides whilst tracking and there's not enough isolation. Then if someone does something great, you might want to reamp.
__________________
Recent Indie credits include:

Jack Robert Hardman (New EP now on sale), Morgan Joanel, and High-Tails.

If I've helped you out, please consider supporting these artists as a favour to me!

Major label credits include Pharrell/Alicia Keys, Ricky Martin (Aus #3), John Legend, Samantha Jade, Di-Rect (Dutch #1), etc
#214
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #214
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,327

barryjohns is offline
I personally think that what we have learned here is that lots of folks understand and appreciate the value in recording a DI when tracking for the option to reamp later, which could be for many reasons.

Some have either not appreciated the value or considered it as a valuable option.

The good news is that there are many vendors who make great products for recording the DI and sending that recorded DI back to the amp. Can we say A Designs as a highly respected vendor, as they make amazing boxes for this very purpose that I use, that frankly are pretty expensive. I don't think they would make these boxes unless their was a huge demand for that as a practice.

Here are some business that specialize in helping studios with reamping:

TOWER STUDIO - Reamping

ReAmp Recording Studios | Anaheim, CA | Artist Roster, Shows, Schedules, and Releases | ReverbNation

https://www.facebook.com/reampstudios

MRJ STUDIOS | Re-amping Services


Here is an article about it that is interesting:

- DI Recording and Reamping Electric Guitars : Recording Magazine -

Another interesting read:

Reamp : John Cuniberti

Wow, even some of our brothers:

Gearslutz Directory: Recording, Mixing, Reamping & Mastering

Hum, getting tired of coping links:

services | the damage room | metal recording studio
#215
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #215
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 15,166

joeq is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Is it actually the case that what gets recorded by the DI is anything at all like the actual feedback?
I would say it IS the actual feedback. The amp can only make sounds that come from the pickups, the pickup can only make sounds that come from the strings. And the strings are vibrating in sympathy with what is coming out of the amp.

I would say a recording of the DI contains all the squeaks and squeals, because the strings were vibrating in that way. If you reamp it, you might get a different interpretation of those but the patterns would be there.

Certainly you could not play back a DI that was recorded from a guitar that was feeding back and not hear the feedback. Or vice versa.


Quote:
Feedback happens in the air.
feedback happens in the strings it is a loop strings>pickup>amp>speakers>air>and back to strings

I remember some guitar - maybe it was a Sears Silvertone - that had a speaker mounted under the strings so you could get feedback at stupidly low levels.



Quote:
But that's not really any different from what might happen if you held a vibrator to the back of the guitar body.
it's totally different
feedback is a closed loop, the vibrator is more like a Ebow, it is single-ended - it puts energy into the strings but does not receive any further energy back from them.

with the vibrator or the ebow there is sustain, but there's more to feedback than sustain!

Quote:
The original could have been a long, slowly mutating squeal and growling affair, which the DI would just record as an oscilating sustain of the string, right?
I am going to check this next chance I get, but my guess is that all the mutating squeals and harmonics are in present in the DI signal. How could it not be?
__________________
.

“What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.”
— Confucius
#216
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #216
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,448

henryrobinett is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I love ya' Henry, but that is a stretch. I guess it all depends on what we perceive as feedback. A squeal, yep, for sure, and maybe that is what you meant.

To me feedback is between the pickup and the amp, and in reamping, that is not doable. Well, unless you maybe have the monitor in the same room as the amp cabinet, but that is a stretch.
I know but I JUST DID IT. There was a section of a solo that had some feedback. I reamped it and there it was. Don't believe me. I get feedback all the time with the Fractal at low volume, so whatever it is, is not air with this thing.
Quote
1
#217
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #217
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,327

barryjohns is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I know but I JUST DID IT. There was a section of a solo that had some feedback. I reamped it and there it was. Don't believe me. I get feedback all the time with the Fractal at low volume, so whatever it is, is not air with this thing.
Henry, I am a fan. Please don't think I am criticizing, I am just wondering if we consider feedback as different things.

I am on your side!
#218
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #218
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,448

henryrobinett is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
Henry, I am a fan. Please don't think I am criticizing, I am just wondering if we consider feedback as different things.

I am on your side!
Maybe. Thanks! I'm talking about when the signal turns into a sustain. There's this tonal transition from the actual note to a feedback sustain.
#219
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #219
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,448

henryrobinett is offline
And normally that happens when I position the guitar towards some undefinable sweet spot that starts this feedback thing. That's with actual amps.
#220
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #220
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,327

barryjohns is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Well pretty sure I had gain staging down even before I was an assistant, to be honest. I didn't just walk off the street and become an assistant engineer. It is the first thing you should learn in engineering.

Man I never knew recording a DI was such a touchy subject.

Record a DI if you would like, but calling an engineer incompetent because they don't is silly. Most I know consider it a crutch when you are relying on it.
Myself and arrowood101 have been talking via PM and we are all good. He is a good guy and I should have been more respectful in how I made my points, and for that I am sorry. I don't mean to offend, but realize that my comments can come across as arrogant, which is something I never want to happen.

But the most important thing, is there is respect between us both.
#221
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #221
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 260

Joe_K is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
But it's clearly the case that re-amping doesn't involve a guitar interacting with an amp in a room, so it does very much lose something in some cases. Anything the player does in terms of a little or a lot of feedback or using almost feedback to create sustain, etc... Those types of things can't be recreated by re-amping because the DI never heard it.
I'm going to have to test this the first chance I get. I admit, I have yet to reamp a track that contained musical feedback, so I'm not speaking of my own first hand experience here.

However, prior to testing this, I'm just trying to figure why it wouldn't work. I could be completely wrong, but when a guitar produces feedback, isn't it because these things are happening:
  1. The vibration coming from the speaker keeps the strings vibrating (the sustain portion of musical feedback and possibly the isolation of a particular harmonic..)
  2. The amp is so loud that when the guitar has been placed close to the speaker, the guitar's pickup is capturing the sound coming from the speaker and sending it back into the amp (squeal).

In both cases, why wouldn't the DI be capturing the info to reproduce that feedback? It is capturing the same signal that was being sent to the amp. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, how else is the guitar communicating with the amp? I understand that the speaker can effect the string over the air, but how does the string effect the speaker anyway except through the pickup? I'm certainly willing to learn something here and will let you know what I find.
#222
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #222
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,138
My Recordings/Credits

arrowood101 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
Myself and arrowood101 have been talking via PM and we are all good. He is a good guy and I should have been more respectful in how I made my points, and for that I am sorry. I don't mean to offend, but realize that my comments can come across as arrogant, which is something I never want to happen.

But the most important thing, is there is respect between us both.
Sometimes written language is hard to interrupt.



Now back to the death match over re-amping.
#223
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #223
Gear nut
 
TheDigs's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Nashville
Posts: 93

TheDigs is offline
Re-amping for electric guitar can definitely be useful when working with less experienced talent. The Ideal may be to get the best sound from his amp while tracking, then supplement/replace if needed later.

For seasoned players, it can be a handy option to have during mix down...for experimental effect. Probably a good idea to feel out the player before using it in the mix (before pulling the DI out of the drawer for tracking even . He may not appreciate the gesture.
#224
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #224
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,448

henryrobinett is offline
The feedback thing must be related to the settings of the amp and or the preset of the Fractal -- obviously it's not in the dry track itself.
#225
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #225
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I personally think that what we have learned here is that lots of folks understand and appreciate the value in recording a DI when tracking for the option to reamp later, which could be for many reasons.

Some have either not appreciated the value or considered it as a valuable option.

The good news is that there are many vendors who make great products for recording the DI and sending that recorded DI back to the amp. Can we say A Designs as a highly respected vendor, as they make amazing boxes for this very purpose that I use, that frankly are pretty expensive. I don't think they would make these boxes unless their was a huge demand for that as a practice.

Here are some business that specialize in helping studios with reamping:

TOWER STUDIO - Reamping

ReAmp Recording Studios | Anaheim, CA | Artist Roster, Shows, Schedules, and Releases | ReverbNation

https://www.facebook.com/reampstudios

MRJ STUDIOS | Re-amping Services


Here is an article about it that is interesting:

- DI Recording and Reamping Electric Guitars : Recording Magazine -

Another interesting read:

Reamp : John Cuniberti

Wow, even some of our brothers:

Gearslutz Directory: Recording, Mixing, Reamping & Mastering

Hum, getting tired of coping links:

services | the damage room | metal recording studio
I think the majority of those links either cater to the " no other option" crowd (ie those who don't have space, gear or indeed the amp itself) or are simply trying to fill the studio.

It really doesn't lend any cred to the line of thinking that di+reamp should be a go to practice, which is the topic of the thread. No-one with the live room and gear to record amps is going to use a reamp service - it's aimed at home recordists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recording di at the same time as the amp (it's useful for editing if nothing else) but I just don't think it's the best option as a go-to working practice. If there's no other option - it's a different matter.

Ultimately, the studio in the OP appear to be doing it for their own convenience, not for the good of the band, which is not something I'd wish to aim for.
#226
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #226
Gear Guru
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 12,682

Dean Roddey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I would say it IS the actual feedback. The amp can only make sounds that come from the pickups, the pickup can only make sounds that come from the strings. And the strings are vibrating in sympathy with what is coming out of the amp.

I would say a recording of the DI contains all the squeaks and squeals, because the strings were vibrating in that way. If you reamp it, you might get a different interpretation of those but the patterns would be there.

Certainly you could not play back a DI that was recorded from a guitar that was feeding back and not hear the feedback. Or vice versa.
But isn't a big part of it also the AMP feeding back? I.e. its seeing it's own signal and reacting to it? It is a cycle that flows through the amp and the guitar and back. That's not happening when you play the DI back because you are missing one half of the equation.

Anyway, we don't want to get Aristotelian here and just try to determine it purely on thought. God is great, God invented feedback, therefore feedback must be captured by DIs. Someone will have to test it.

It sure seems to me that the amp's own circuitry is part of that loop, seeing its own signal and re-amplifying it repeatedly. It's hard for me to imagine that if you just recorded the DI from Jimi Hendrix humping a Marshall Stack, and re-amped it that it would sound the same.
__________________
Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd
www.charmedquark.com

Be a control freak!
#227
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #227
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,327

barryjohns is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I think the majority of those links either cater to the " no other option" crowd (ie those who don't have space, gear or indeed the amp itself) or are simply trying to fill the studio.

It really doesn't lend any cred to the line of thinking that di+reamp should be a go to practice, which is the topic of the thread. No-one with the live room and gear to record amps is going to use a reamp service - it's aimed at home recordists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recording di at the same time as the amp (it's useful for editing if nothing else) but I just don't think it's the best option as a go-to working practice. If there's no other option - it's a different matter.

Ultimately, the studio in the OP appear to be doing it for their own convenience, not for the good of the band, which is not something I'd wish to aim for.
I have to throw this out there, although I agree with most of what you have said, but do most studios have that many boutique amps? I know I didn't in my hey day. 8 to 10, yes. There are a lot of great choices out there, now more than ever, it really is a great option to minimize overhead, as long as you are familiar with the amps in question and "Trust" the person helping. As studio prices plummet, the investment has to be really considered. Is it better to invest in that many Boutique Amps, or have a great relationship with a studio that specializes in it. It is the way I do it at some these days, when the tone needs to be very specific and time is available. But keep in mind, that is just one of many reason to reamp as I know you are fully aware of.

If the studio can afford to invest in a wide variety of Boutique Amps, that of course, is the better option. That being said, that used to be a more viable option years ago, when the hourly rate was much more than it is today. Depends heavily on the market a person services.
#228
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #228
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 15,166

joeq is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
But isn't a big part of it also the AMP feeding back? I.e. it's seeing it's own signal and reacting to it?
but the amp is not seeing it's "own" signal - it is seeing the signal coming from the pickups of the guitar which of course are reacting to the strings which are reacting to the sound of the amp. It is a feedback loop. No part of loop is reacting to "itself". Any place you tap off the signal, the feedback will be there. The amp, the speaker, the room.

I don't think the DI of the guitar is any 'different' in this respect just because it is "clean". It is part of the loop.

Quote:
It is a cycle that flows through the amp and the guitar and back. That's not happening when you play the DI back because you are missing one half of the equation.
yes it is still happening when you play the DI back, because the volume of the amp was loud enough to get the strings vibrating in the first place. The output of that DI is what the pickups heard:

The pickups heard strings that were being excited by the extreme volume of the amplifier.


Quote:
It sure seems to me that the amp's own circuitry is part of that loop, seeing its own signal and re-amplifying it repeatedly.
But the amp does not see it's "own" signal again until after it has excited the strings and then been picked up by the pickups and then sent out the DI. Therefore the strings must be vibrating with the feedback, therefore the DI must contain the feedback as well.

There is no feedback loop that is solely contained within the amp, unless you had a microphonic tube or something.

I think you would hear a big change in the DI the second you cut power to the amp.



Quote:
It's hard for me to imagine that if you just recorded the DI from Jimi Hendrix humping a Marshall Stack, and re-amped it that it would sound the same.
It's hard for me to imagine that with the same amp set up the same it would not sound the same, well mighty close anyway. The big differences would be in how the reamp box loaded the input of the amp and so on.


Quote:
Anyway, we don't want to get Aristotelian here and just try to determine it purely on thought. Someone will have to test it.
*sigh*
you are right, of course

I am working and sleeping only for the next 3 days, but after that....
#229
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #229
Gear Guru
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 12,682

Dean Roddey is offline
I was just saying the amp itself is part of a feedback loop. A signal it amplified is being fed back around into it again which it is amplifying, ad distortium. It would seem to me that that is a big part of the sound. I don't see how playing the resulting vibrations of the strings that resulted from that feedback loop will recreate that. But of course, I was once wrong when I was 5 years old, so I guess it could happen again.

Note that we should feel bad, Richard Feynman and his fellow physics students had a similar sort of debate about what would happen if you put a rotating sprinkler head into a tank of water, and instead of pushing water through it, you pulled water back up into it. Would it rotate forwards, backwards, not at all? This is a similar sort of thing, that it's easy to come up with reasonable explanations for it either way. Ultimately, they had to just try it as well.
#230
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #230
Gear nut
 
DavePiatek's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 137

DavePiatek is offline
I had a one-room studio for a while, and to track all the guitars with the amp in the room was a NIGHTMARE. Even with iso headphones, it was very hard to get a good feeling while tracking because of the bleed. As soon as I got a reamp box, my life changed. I agree somewhat about the "vibe" from having a real amp as opposed to an amp sim or an amp run through a palmer speaker sim, but it all depends on the player and the style of music. I haven't ever had a performance problem or a complaint from someone because they were running through one of those boxes with the intent to reamp later. In fact, they usually are a little relieved that they can focus entirely on their performance rather than worrying about "did we get the right guitar tone or am I going to have to retrack this?" That bit of comfort in separating the performance from the sonics usually helps the performance more than it hurts.
__________________
Dave Piatek
dave@roomsound.com

UNPROCESSED DRUM SAMPLES FOR AUDIO PROS
www.roomsound.com
#231
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #231
Gear interested
 
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2

Dianalee is offline
Little bit of cheating.

Amping is a little bit of cheating because it gives kind of sound that is not really there. But then again that is what the most of the music reproduction is all about.
__________________
I am finding a cheap flights to Bangkok from Londo.
#232
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #232
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: LOS ANGELES
Posts: 4,115

superburtm is offline
The argument is as stated. Do a record on tape.... You aint gonna be reamping. You betta get it right at the start. Im not saying reamping doesn't have its place. But it is a function of digital recording.

QUOTE=Enlightened Hand;9002756]What does re-amping have to do with digital recording?

I don't see re-amping as a major issue with digital recording at all. Nor do I think the two topics have anything to necessarily do with one another. Nor do I think anything is necessarily "wrong" with digital recording as a medium (but that's another discussion altogether).

What exactly is your argument? Please clarify.[/QUOTE]
__________________
www.sanitysound.com
The Home of Analog Recording
#233
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #233
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I suppose you have never had an assistant make a mistake? But, you, have probably never been in a situation to actually have an assistant. Have you? How about you, have you, never made a mistake. Really, are you in fact, that perfect? Really? I have never met an engineer who has not made the mistake in question. OMG!
You're coming across as a bit childish to be honest. If you're not interested in discussing it, then be happy with how you work and leave the thread. It's clear to me that you didn't read my post properly and I have no interest in feeding trolls. I couldn't care less how you work and I haven't personally attacked you for using it, so please show some respect.

Yes, I've had an assistant. I haven't let them set levels for crucial projects without checking? If you make a mistake, do the bloody take again. It's only how music was recorded for the majority of popular music history. It should be enough to check and do a quick run through, with the musician in full knowledge that it won't be a 'take' - there is your opportunity to make mistakes. If you do make a mistake, then it is still a mistake. Re-amping never sounds identical and if the guitarist was buzzing about the performance he'll still be pissed off and probably opt to just play it again anyway. And it's just as likely that a problem could occur that cuts off the recording entirely.

If you're working regularly you shouldn't be making that mistake on crucial takes. That's how it works. In live sound sometimes one major mistake is all the chance you get, engineering is supposed to be pressurised. Just because we have infinite possibilities in digital studios doesn't mean we have to utilize them all.

By your logic most of the classic 'once in a lifetime' guitar takes that did make it onto record without re-amping shouldn't have been possible. Again, it's not like you can have a 'backup' of a vocal take, so you might as well learn not to mess it up when it matters. Having many boutique amps is a luxury for a studio, but it isn't necessary if you don't.

I'm really not sure how saying re-amping shouldn't be a go-to practice in a recording studio can receive so much resistance. And saying that an engineer who doesn't utilize it is incompetent is frankly ridiculous. You've probably just called most of the engineers of the records you love incompetent.
__________________
Black Lodge Sound
London, UK
#234
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #234
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recording di at the same time as the amp (it's useful for editing if nothing else) but I just don't think it's the best option as a go-to working practice. If there's no other option - it's a different matter.

Ultimately, the studio in the OP appear to be doing it for their own convenience, not for the good of the band, which is not something I'd wish to aim for.
Well, exactly . I don't really understand what people are getting so argumentative about. It seems obvious that a studio using it as a go-to practice, largely regardless of the band, is not a great way to work. I don't think anyone has said it is an awful technique all of the time.
#235
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #235
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I have to throw this out there, although I agree with most of what you have said, but do most studios have that many boutique amps? I know I didn't in my hey day. 8 to 10, yes. There are a lot of great choices out there, now more than ever, it really is a great option to minimize overhead, as long as you are familiar with the amps in question and "Trust" the person helping. As studio prices plummet, the investment has to be really considered. Is it better to invest in that many Boutique Amps, or have a great relationship with a studio that specializes in it. It is the way I do it at some these days, when the tone needs to be very specific and time is available. But keep in mind, that is just one of many reason to reamp as I know you are fully aware of.

If the studio can afford to invest in a wide variety of Boutique Amps, that of course, is the better option. That being said, that used to be a more viable option years ago, when the hourly rate was much more than it is today. Depends heavily on the market a person services.
Personally, as a producer, I think I'd rather have full on control of the sound I'm going for, even if the amp isn't "boutique", than send it out to what is effectively a sub-producer. Anyone offering this service isn't going to give you revisions and so on for the fees they charge - you send your DIs, you get your sounds back, and if you don't like it, you're not going to get to change it without the fee going up. Realistically anyway. It's not like sending something away to mastering, or even mixing - it's part of the core sound of the production.

I wonder how much custom these studios offering "reamping" services actually gets - anyone care to comment on how much they do? and if so, from what sort of clients?
TML
#236
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #236
TML
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,085

TML is offline
Recording a di allows easier editing when recording guitar. Particularly some forms of modern metal. It's no different that printing several overhead or room mic's for later evaluation. Tim
#237
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #237
Lives for gear
 
Kiwi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,972

Kiwi is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
The argument is as stated. Do a record on tape.... You aint gonna be reamping. You betta get it right at the start. Im not saying reamping doesn't have its place. But it is a function of digital recording.]
Not sure if you believe this or are quoting something you disagree with ...

Either way, it's utter bollocks.

Reamping started long, long before digital. The Beatles famously used it. Steely Dan famously used it (because they couldn't afford to keep replacing amps while they fiddled around getting the perfect takes).

Reamping is as classic and as analog as it gets - nothing to do with the meaningless digital vs analog debate...
Quote
1
#238
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #238
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 351

jachin boaz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roy Factor View Post
Hey guys.
I've recently discovered a few studios near me re-amp exclusively when tracking electric guitars. Literally having the musicians play DI-ed, and then the engineer will re-amp and pick the tones for them at a later date. I find this kind of weird. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with micing an amp and tracking the dry signal in case something sounds goofy later on, but I find there to be something weird about literally re-amping everything always. I'm not sure if this happens a lot though, this could be a weird thing that happens around me!
Thoughts?
i feel we just have to do what works , there are no rules in creativity for me.
#239
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #239
Lives for gear
 
Kiwi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,972

Kiwi is offline
And if you want feedback assisted sustain while your record your clean DI tracks - just use an amp at the same time. You can have mad gain that is far too noisy for the final track, and it doesn't matter at all. It vibrates the strings - and the sound of the strings gets recorded to the clean DI track - WITH the feedback assisted sustain, but without the saturation and noise. Maybe that's too esoteric for most guitarists ... spookey
#240
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #240
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
And if you want feedback assisted sustain while your record your clean DI tracks - just use an amp at the same time. You can have mad gain that is far too noisy for the final track, and it doesn't matter at all. It vibrates the strings - and the sound of the strings gets recorded to the clean DI track - WITH the feedback assisted sustain, but without the saturation and noise. Maybe that's too esoteric for most guitarists ... spookey
I haven't had the same experience of that and I'm not sure why. The DI played out on the same amp and same settings didn't reproduce the amp feedback anywhere near as close as with the player in the room. Also it is different to be feeding back from the amp that generates the final sound. In most cases it doesn't make much of a difference though.

A few other people keep mentioning recording DI as being a good idea... nobody ever suggested it wasn't. I don't understand why it keeps coming up. The discussion was whether re-amping as a matter of course or 'studio policy', as someone else put it, was good or bad. It has very little to do with doing a DI as a backup or to mix in and edit, or as part of the compositional process, or whatever. Personally it's not something I feel the need to do every time, but that's not the discussion and largely irrelevant.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.