CABLES do MAKE a difference, here's proof -vote on it

[fuzzface777]

I used a royer 121, stratocaster, plain fender soild state ( crap practice amp here it home), and ONE CANARE cable and one KLOTZ LaGrange cable, from the guitar straight into the solid state Fender practice amp. The Fender was recorded bedroom level volume levels and it has a horrible drive channel and terrible speaker for recording, but the recording servers the purpose. First, chords are rung out and strummed, then pinch harmonics (the true indicator of the feel) were recorded, and a quick 16th note passage, followed by some heavy strumming to show the voicing on the lower 300 range of frequencies. The bridge ( single coil) was used throughout. And if you can't hear the difference then you should NOT be a member in this forum.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588

[T.RayBullard]

if it wasnt the same performance(very hard to do!) then the results may be skewed.
I do hear a difference, but I dont know what the contributing factors are..

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

I used a royer 121, stratocaster, plain fender soild state ( crap practice amp here it home), and ONE CANARE cable and one KLOTZ LaGrange cable, from the guitar straight into the solid state Fender practice amp. The Fender was recorded bedroom level volume levels and it has a horrible drive channel and terrible speaker for recording, but the recording servers the purpose. First, chords are rung out and strummed, then pinch harmonics (the true indicator of the feel) were recorded, and a quick 16th note passage, followed by some heavy strumming to show the voicing on the lower 300 range of frequencies. The bridge ( single coil) was used throughout. And if you can't hear the difference then you should NOT be a member in this forum.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588

[tINY]

Which ever one he paid more for is obviously better. I can say that and I didn't even have to listen to the recordings.

He didn't name drop the type of Canare cable. So, I guess that the other one was more expensive and therefore sounds better.....




-tINY

[orange]

sigh.....what's the point....there's no point in listening to the clips - I'm sure they sound very different.

This test is irrelevant, what kind of cable was used ? how old was it ? single core or twin core or quad core ?

Guitars are high impedance and there are all kind of (well documented) reasons why certain kinds of cable will sound very very different with an electric guitar....I assume that you were using the cable to connect the guitar to the amp - NOT from the mic to the preamp ?

and this is why people beleive some of these crazy audio myths, what happened to science ?

si

[FollowTheMusic]

1) Yes, most people agree that guitar -> amp cables are where you are most likely to hear variations; this does not necessarily translate to mic/line cables

2) Without two recordings of the same performance you won't convince anyone who doesn't already believe.

I sincerely applaud your initiative to actually make and post recordings, but these particular tests are not persuasive. Do you have a keyboard with a line-out you can use? Record the same MIDI sequence with the two different cables and compare those.

But as to guitar cables specifically, many people agree that they make a difference.

[fuzzface777]

The Canare was a G-S6 and much cheaper. If you could play guitar you would know that.

The samples feature are very similar takes . Making them EXACT would have been easy enough, but I just didn't it mattered, since the differences are OBVIOUS. Anyone who is curious to hear, please do. Anyone who isn't interested in cables sonic differences but has an a blind opinion about what I recorded without listening to the samples, .....then please DON'T waste the thread with that crap, sorry, but it bothers me.

[foxyloxy]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

The Canare was a G-S6 and much cheaper. If you could play guitar you would know that.

The samples feature are very similar takes . Making them EXACT would have been easy enough, but I just didn't it mattered, since the differences are OBVIOUS. Anyone who is curious to hear, please do. Anyone who isn't interested in cables sonic differences but has an a blind opinion about what I recorded without listening to the samples, .....then please DON'T waste the thread with that crap, sorry, but it bothers me.

As a member of this forum, you should come to terms with the fact that other people will always offer their own experiences/opinions - it doesn't necessarily mean they don't agree with you. And if you are going to put up samples and use the word 'proof', then may I humbly suggest you keep an open mind.

[orange]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

The Canare was a G-S6 and much cheaper. If you could play guitar you would know that.

The samples feature are very similar takes . Making them EXACT would have been easy enough, but I just didn't it mattered, since the differences are OBVIOUS. Anyone who is curious to hear, please do. Anyone who isn't interested in cables sonic differences but has an a blind opinion about what I recorded without listening to the samples, .....then please DON'T waste the thread with that crap, sorry, but it bothers me.

I've been a guitarist for 25 years - but, as yet, it hasn't given me any kind of psychic ability so I didn't know that.

Thanks for your doing your test - whatever it was you set out to prove (?) you have managed to do - I'm convinced.

PS

I'm not quite sure who has the blind opinion here ? I am damn sure that cables make a difference - try plugging a guitar into an amp down 5 miles of zip cable - then try that with 20m of decent low capacitance single core instrument cable. I'm sure they'll sound very different. What I'm saying is that, as it stands, your test proves nothing and demonstrates very little.

thank you and good night.

[fuzzface777]

Orange, great you have played guitar 25 years! Enough with the pissing match, ok? I will keep on open mind, despite the cheap comments of some. I REALLY care about tone, depth and the tiny stuff in between in my guitars tone....maybe a lot more than some? Anyway, I should have labelled the forum, guitar cables differences for the guitarists who care about their tone.... I am not out to prove anything of course, I just the Klotz yesterday and wanted to record the difference I heard. I am not sure if I like the difference yet or not, since there are tradeoffs in the feel and harmonic response. That is why I am curious on what sample ( 1 or 0 )you slutz preferred if you were to mix that " tone" in song. Does that make sense orange?

thanks

[cmbsounds]

It seems like good muscians like to make other less experienced ones more experienced and are helpful where as shitty muscians just like to bring everyone down

[orange]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

Does that make sense orange?

Ok can I get a few points cleared up...

Are you saying that different guitar cables can make a difference in sound ? - If so then I totally agree. Most (passive pickup) guitars are very sensitive to cables. They are even sensitive to the age/quality of the cable. You must have heard old cables crackle when you move them (especially on highgain type settings).

A very quick google search picks up lots of info on the subject such as:

http://www.aqdi.com/cablecap.htm

Any damage/dodgy soldering on the cable could increase the capacitance greatly.

This isn't psuedo-science like many other cable claims, but is a specific effect with high impedance (inductive) sources.

OK...now onto other types of cables into other situations.

In general, as long as a cable has the correct electrical characteristics (resistance/screening/capacitance) and mechanical charicteristics (strengh/flexibility) then it should work fine. The claims being made by some is that cables have all kinds of esoteric properties that don't seem to be explained by modern physics. This is where the controversy lies - this is what needs to be tested/explained.

Hence my reply that your test wasn't very useful.

Try that again but use Line-level as suggested by FollowTheMusic. Also you can post the mp3s here CLEARLY labelled. List exactly which cables were used etc etc. Change NOTHING between the test other than the cable.
.

[tINY]

So, your guitar is sensitive to the cable. No suprise there. The Fender amps tend to have a high imput impedance (higher than others). So, differences in instrument cable will be relfected in the tone.

If you really want control over your tone, you need to look at active pick-ups or an on-board EQ/buffer for your guitar. And then start down the dark road of collecting boutique guitar amps......




-tINY

[jerry123]

I find I play better when I use expensive cables.

[Jacklynn]

Get some Mogami cables and quit yer whynin'

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

Get some Mogami cables and quit yer whynin'

Amen.

as i said in the other thread.....I thought it was all bull...but when I compared the Mogami to the Monster 100 and 500 series........Mogami's top end was a bit more open. Not a big Oooollll difference, but a difference. So now I have all mogami.....everywhere. Just figured when you have multiple signals.. that small difference is no longer small. Plus I got a reaaal nice deal on em.

[BeePee]

I'm sure there is a difference between cords as others have said.Sometimes small ocassionally big however.I have serious doubts that if Jeff Beck Plugged into the majority of these cords and played Cause We Ended As Lovers I would give a Mogami shitzel.....(hell even me for that matter)I'm listening to the music not the frequency curve of a cord.Now if said cord was choking off at 100 -1k I would care past that .....pass me the cord and let me Play that damn geetar!!


BP

[danasti]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

if it wasnt the same performance(very hard to do!) then the results may be skewed.
I do hear a difference, but I dont know what the contributing factors are..

Exactly - you can split the signal - go dual mono out of a mic amp (split di) and record on two separate tracks to get the exact same performance. Switch sides of the mic amp or di and repeat. Switch to new cables from both companies, repeat.

One cable or connector could be in bad or better shape.

I agree that there are two many variables unaccounted for and you would need at least two new canare and two of the other and the same performance.

It's not fair to the company or consumer to test like this and claim it's definitive. We need to be shown the environment, the product and the setup and you should have someone there to check your work. I'm not saying you did anything wrong but we all make mistakes. We are human. Sometimes we make the errors and it's not the equipment. It wouldn't be right to make a judgement if you had a bad cable or a worn out connector.

[Lava Man]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

I used a royer 121, stratocaster, plain fender soild state ( crap practice amp here it home), and ONE CANARE cable and one KLOTZ LaGrange cable, from the guitar straight into the solid state Fender practice amp. The Fender was recorded bedroom level volume levels and it has a horrible drive channel and terrible speaker for recording, but the recording servers the purpose. First, chords are rung out and strummed, then pinch harmonics (the true indicator of the feel) were recorded, and a quick 16th note passage, followed by some heavy strumming to show the voicing on the lower 300 range of frequencies. The bridge ( single coil) was used throughout. And if you can't hear the difference then you should NOT be a member in this forum.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588

So...which one did you prefer?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by tINY

So, your guitar is sensitive to the cable. No suprise there. The Fender amps tend to have a high imput impedance (higher than others). So, differences in instrument cable will be relfected in the tone.

If you really want control over your tone, you need to look at active pick-ups or an on-board EQ/buffer for your guitar. And then start down the dark road of collecting boutique guitar amps......

-tINY

Yes, yes! Trying to squeeze a few more electrons out of a feeble high impedance coil driving a capacitive load is always going to incure losses, especially at higher frequencies.

My active guitars all have a very low output impedance, less than 50 ohms. This negates much of the losses and differences of 'guitar" cables. So I use the thin Canare GS-4 and don't worry about it. I save the exotic cables for the studio gear, where it really matters.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[fuzzface777]

Orange: yes I should have maybe explained more. I posted this on gearpage.com and many requested for clean channel guitar and and each cable panned hard left and right. The Klotz is on the right and the Canare GS-5, Left.
I really didn't to for a perfect stereo peformance here, just close enough to make sense of it while self panning while listening. I gotta say that the clean guitar samples are more difficult to discern as I previously thought, when it gets to Neil Young ditty, with the gain only on 3, hard strummin on a solid state amp!, while panning back and forth I noticed that at first that the Canare ( L) sounded bigger, more reponse on the 6th string ( 320 Hz?) and more highs, while the Klotz had slight roll off in this respect. The only variable different on the recordings was the cable, both cables were 20 ft, into a bridge single coil 6.7 K pup into my solid state practice amp. Both cables are brand new. All levels were the same. The Canare was much easier on pinch harmonics but both cables cables were fine on natural harmonics, I don't really understand that one..... still! However, the Klotz (R) was more pleasant and did not get harsh after 2-3 listens. The Klotz had more upper and lower mids and hotter output ( shown in the meter in my PT session). The Klotz was also clearer, not as muddy while using a dist. or od pedal ( I really appreciated that). From a recording standpoint the Klotz is a sure winner, but I hate that the Klotz is MUCH harder than the canare to perform pinch harmonics -necessary say,while playing a rock song. Check out the new recordings here:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588

[Empty Planet]

Just ran across a small, open-source (free) app that tests a variety of aspects of whatever chain it's hooked up to. Frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, noise, etc. Make a new buss ITB, hook a good cord to your outs and run it to your ins, run the test. Do the same thing with your suspect cable. Generate some hard data. I've found the difference between a particular balanced cable and one of my typical guitar cords to be most amusing.

Whether you like what the cord introduces or not is another question, but if you want to see what kind of noise is being introduced, just do a test. These things are quantifiable.

Btw, if there was "proof," why on earth would anyone need to "vote" on it? .. There is either proof or there isn't.


Cheers.

[orange]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Just ran across a small, open-source (free) app that tests a variety of aspects of whatever chain it's hooked up to. Frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, noise, etc. Make a new buss ITB, hook a good cord to your outs and run it to your ins, run the test. Do the same thing with your suspect cable. Generate some hard data.

Whether you like what the cord introduces or not is another question, but if you want to see what kind of noise is being introduced, just do a test. These things are quantifiable.

Btw, if there was "proof," why on earth would anyone need to "vote" on it? .. There is either proof or there isn't.


Cheers.

good idea - but bear in mind that you are also testing the input and output chains of whatever system you have the cable connected to - so it's not that useful for ABSOLUTE measurements of JUST the cable. It will, however, assist in seeing the difference between different cables.

[gtichy]

Originally Posted by tINY

If you really want control over your tone, you need to look at active pick-ups or an on-board EQ/buffer for your guitar. And then start down the dark road of collecting boutique guitar amps......




-tINY

That's generalizing a little, I think. Obvoiusly active pickups won't sound right in many musical styles. Low output pickups can sound great - I prefer a "not too hot" pickup in many of my guitars.

On the totally opposite end of this discussion, a good friend of mine uses a curly cable from the seventies. It removes a lot of the harsh high end in his Tele.

This cable discussion may seem totally obvious to most of us, but I am often shocked at how many guitarists insist that all cables sound the same....

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by orange

....but bear in mind that you are also testing the input and output chains of whatever system you have the cable connected to - so it's not that useful for ABSOLUTE measurements of JUST the cable....

Exactly right and an important point. You have to run the test on your converters alone to see what's going on there and then integrate that knowledge into your cable test.

I discovered the applicability of this to cables as I was testing my converters. I thought one channel was completely shot and the whole unit would have to be replaced.

Then I saw I'd patched one channel of the test with a guitar cable.





Cheers.

[fuzzface777]

sounds like the last few posters haven't bothered to hear anything.