Digidesign PRE's Preamp's vs. Digidesign Control 24 Preamp's?

[777]

Digidesign PRE's Preamp's vs. Digidesign Control 24 Preamp's? Everybody. Your Opinions Please.

A 777 Subject.

[Oroz]

I have both and to me PRE is better although I've never done a "true" comparison between the two (like having the same source and mic recorded through both preamps). I only use C24 preamps for recording guide tracks or when there's a need for recording a drumkit with a lot of channels.

I'll do a "true" comparison between them as soon as I can.

[John J.]

Oroz,

How do you like the C24 pre's when tracking drums? Do you run the tracks through any other outboard pre/post C24 at the same time?

- John

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by John J.

Oroz,

How do you like the C24 pre's when tracking drums? Do you run the tracks through any other outboard pre/post C24 at the same time?

- John

I think they're OK but nothing that has impressed me. I run them direct (without any outboard gear) and I try to use them in the least important channels/tracks jeje. For example in a big drumkit set up it may go something like this:

Kick: PRE-1
Snare: PRE-2
Tom 1: PRE-3
Tom 2: PRE 4
Tom 3: PRE-5
OH L: PRE-6
OH R: PRE-7
Room: PRE-8
Snare Bottom: C24 9
HH: C24-10
Ride: C24-11
KK Outside C24-12
Bass (guide) C24-13
Guitar (guide) C24-14
Vocals (guide) C24-15

Of course not always goes like this and depending on the style of music many things may change.

[RKrizman]

Don't know about PRE, but I don't use the pre's in my C24. Tried them on drums once and IMO found them to be even worse than their reputation. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

-R

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Don't know about PRE, but I don't use the pre's in my C24. Tried them on drums once and IMO found them to be even worse than their reputation. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

-R

I don't think you're spoiled, I use PRE and C24 preamps because they're the only option we have at our studio.

[777]

RKrizman,

So what was so bad about the Control 24 preamps. More details please.

A 777 Subject.

[777]

Oroz,

What caused you to buy the Digidesign PRE's in the first place. They're not that popular but are supposed to be clean, clear, & transparent.

A 777 Subject.

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by 777

Oroz,

What caused you to buy the Digidesign PRE's in the first place. They're not that popular but are supposed to be clean, clear, & transparent.

A 777 Subject.

I'm not the owner of the studio, the equipment was already there when I got the job. I only contributed with some mics and we did order a R-122 at my request. It's a small studio.

And yes, PRE is clean and transparent.

[Jamz]

Don't own the PRE but I've owned a C24 for over 5 years.
I originally purchased the C24 and installed it into Argosy furniture with all connections (including the onboard mic pres) soldered to patch bays. The buttons for the phantom power are not conveniently located and I'm not crazy about each button controlling a bank of 8 pres. I tried the pres and felt they were just OK. They don't have a lot of head room. While I would certainly consider them usable I have other pres that I use on a daily basis. It's been quite some time since the C24 pres were used in any capacity.

[NOCCA]

The PRE clean and transparent? I wouldn't think so... Though I could be spoiled, I find the PREs to be the muddiest channels we have. (Actualy second to a pair of ARTs) They seem to have a poor representation of the low-mids.

Don't have the C24 though.

And as allways, its just $.02

[Oroz]

To me transparent means that they don't add much color, caracter (like for example a tube preamp) but don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's a great preamp, if it were for me I would have different preamps but many times you have to work with what's available jeje, specially in my city.

The time I lived in Mexico City I had the opportunity to attennd at a couple of recordings at a studio of a very good and well known musician/engineer/producer. A fair amount of decent records are cut there and he uses C24´s preamps more than I do to record drums. They have a Manley VoxBox (kick), an Avalon VT-737 (snare), a Langevin Dual Vocal Combo (OH´s) and C24's preamps (toms, HH, ride, etc.) so I agree with Jamz that they're "usable" but also agree that they're not the best option around.

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by NOCCA

The PRE clean and transparent? I wouldn't think so... Though I could be spoiled, I find the PREs to be the muddiest channels we have. (Actualy second to a pair of ARTs) They seem to have a poor representation of the low-mids.

Don't have the C24 though.

And as allways, its just $.02

i concur.

they suck. compared to my Lavry Blue pre, (yes, yes different class i know.) they are muddy and lack any openess on the top.

[dubrichie]

i havent used the PRE but have used the C24 preamps quite a bit.

i am told that they are focusrite, or designed by focusrite or somehow connected to focusrite. whatever.

i have an octopre and think that it sounds better than the C24 preamps. maybe im imagining things but the octopre is no great shakes at all at all and the C24 preamps are worse... to my ears and in those circumstances anyway.

avoid. avoid the octopre too.

regards,

richie.

[777]

Is Oroz the only person that has tried both of these pre's( Digidesign PRE pre.'s vs. Digidesign Control24 pre.'s). I would have figured that Digidesign might have had pre amp.'s installed in the PRE units that were a little more upscale than those in the Control 24. Maybe not on the Lavry scale but at least something comparable in quality to the quality jump made in converters(888|24 to 192 = Control|24 to PRE. Anybody see what I'm getting at?).


A 777 Subject.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by 777

RKrizman,

So what was so bad about the Control 24 preamps. More details please.

A 777 Subject.

I really didn't analyze it. Sort of unconvincing and 2-D, I suppose. Gave a quick listen on toms then moved on.

Nonetheless, I own a C24 and love it.

-R

[777]

RKrizman,

Any problems with the power supplies, monitoring section on your Control 24?

A 777 Subject.

[dubrichie]

in my experience the montioring section of the C24 is also very lacklustre. certainly not transparent. a bit noisy. flat / lifeless sounding. does not inspire confidence in what you arfe hearing.

i really dont like the C24 at all.

i think that the design is seriously lacking in ergonomics.

it looks slick with the silver/grey text and such on black but is hard to read in less than bright conditions. no colour coding to aid the eye. several functions have never been implemented. bad bad bad. i wouldnt touch one with a barge pole. a Mackie CU + Extenders and a decent montior controller would be better in every way that i can think of and cheaper.

YMMV.

regards,

richie.

[thebri]

The problem with the C24 Pres are numerous. I've used 4 different C24s

- Inconsistancy amoung channels. Plus, we had many go out or become really noisy.
- Terrible head room. These things clip 6 db before 0. Sure you can recalibrate your 192's to compensate, but then everything else is messed up.
- No bass. None
- Bad transient response. They clip out very easily on Bass, snares and the like.

On the plus side, there is some interesting detail on the high end. I was suprized by some room mics done with these once.

The Digi pres are a bit better. The Digi-bots say they sound like Grace Pres, but...I don't think the high end is that nice. I've got some Grace pres, and no way.

But hey at $200/channel THey aren't bad in some applications where instant recall is needed. The reso and Grace options are around 6K/8 channels I think.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by 777

RKrizman,

Any problems with the power supplies, monitoring section on your Control 24?

A 777 Subject.

No problems. Very convenient if you're switching back and forth from surround to stereo. I don't think the monitor sound is as bad as everyone says. Unlike the pre's.

-R

[RKrizman]

BTW, the weird thing about the C24 is that you are paying for a lot of stuff that sucks, but keep in mind that there are things it does very well, and to me that makes it worthwhile. I use mine as a mouse alternative, and turn to it for faders, pans, effects sends, automation, transport, record arming, solo, mute, headphones--all of which is implemented very well and has totally eliminated mouse fatigue for me (in my hand and in my brain). For monitoring, sometimes I skip the C24 section and go out through another box. Usually, I use the C24 for it's functionality, when that seems more important than extra high-fidelity sound. For surround it's great.

If I was totally out of outboard hardware and had to pass a reasonable percentage of some fairly inconsequential signal, I'd even reach for the preamps. Or maybe not.

-R

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

BTW, the weird thing about the C24 is that you are paying for a lot of stuff that sucks, but keep in mind that there are things it does very well, and to me that makes it worthwhile. I use mine as a mouse alternative, and turn to it for faders, pans, effects sends, automation, transport, record arming, solo, mute, headphones--all of which is implemented very well and has totally eliminated mouse fatigue for me (in my hand and in my brain). For monitoring, sometimes I skip the C24 section and go out through another box. Usually, I use the C24 for it's functionality, when that seems more important than extra high-fidelity sound. For surround it's great.

If I was totally out of outboard hardware and had to pass a reasonable percentage of some fairly inconsequential signal, I'd even reach for the preamps. Or maybe not.

-R

Agreed! I feel lost when I'm not using the C24. I also own a HUI, 002 and do a fair amount of work on a Pro Control. I really like my C24. Would not part with it. If I were to purchase an Icon I would place the C24 in a smaller room and wouldn't hesitate to wire up the pres for budget minded sessions where Neve and GR are usually not expected or requested anyway.

I know there was an early run of C24s that suffered from defective silver paint. It would rub off easily. They were recalled and fixed a while back. I had 2 solid years of perfect functionallity when my power supply went. Digidesign was fantastic. Immediately sent out a replacement no charge. Installed it myself. Ran into problems a few months later...Digi did the same with no charge. It started to show signs of failing again so I brought it to an authorized Digi service center in New York. Turns out that it wasn't the power supply. Apparently there is a type of gluing that takes place with some of the wires or leads which I failed to do. After a couple of months these leads would slip and make poor contact causing the C24 to act crazy. Since (I believe their name is DBM in NY) fixing the unit there have been no problems at all. It's now been well over a year without incident.

[777]

Jamz,

Seems like you've got some serious history with the Control 24. But, you know the responses your gave are what I'm looking for but not on this thread. Hey, would you mind checking this thread over hear, & feel free to respond if something comes up of interest there as well:


Mackie Control Universal vs. Digidesign Control 24?





A 777 Subject.

[777]

So would you all say that Digidesign's PRE pre. amp.'s are better than Digidesign's Control 24 pre. amp.'s, or the other way around?

A 777 Subject.

[by-tor]

I use both side by side all the time. THe DIGI PRE is far and away better than the C24 pres. I actually like the DIGI PRE. I use them along side api, tube-tech, studer d19 and a 12ay7. I like them all. The DIGI PRE is on the clean side but with nice transients. I have used it on rooms, snares, guitars, bass and vox. I was floored by how much nicer it sounds than the C24...It also sounds better than the pres in the dm2000s. I kinda want one for at home..... But then I think no....I want something with a bit more special sauce.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by thebri

The problem with the C24 Pres are numerous. I've used 4 different C24s

- Inconsistancy amoung channels. Plus, we had many go out or become really noisy.
- Terrible head room. These things clip 6 db before 0. Sure you can recalibrate your 192's to compensate, but then everything else is messed up.
- No bass. None
- Bad transient response. They clip out very easily on Bass, snares and the like.

On the plus side, there is some interesting detail on the high end. I was suprized by some room mics done with these once.

The Digi pres are a bit better. The Digi-bots say they sound like Grace Pres, but...I don't think the high end is that nice. I've got some Grace pres, and no way.

But hey at $200/channel THey aren't bad in some applications where instant recall is needed. The reso and Grace options are around 6K/8 channels I think.

Since the Control24 is a controller, aren't you describing what you don't like about your ProTools convertors?

[Studio Dweller]

Originally Posted by PDC

Since the Control24 is a controller, aren't you describing what you don't like about your ProTools convertors?

The C24 has 16 built-in mic preamps.

[Markd102]

If what I'm told is true, the pres in the C24 are Focusrite Platinum range pres.
So........ YUK!

[Berolzheimer]

This thread got me thinking.... I wonder if Jim Williams could replace the pres with his high speed mic amp card?

Jim? Watcha think, doable or no? Ever seen the inside of a c24? If not I can arrange it.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by Studio Dweller

The C24 has 16 built-in mic preamps.

The post referenced mentioned headroom while mixing, which has nothing to do with preamps. I have a C24 BTW. Would I use the pres? No. Never have, never will. I do have 24 channels of Digi PREs, which I use on remotes. They are pretty clean. They are not a Focusrite pre. They were not designed or built by Focusrite. The Control24s pres are a variation of Focusrite pres, which I have never cared for.