Do your snares usually sound flat and weird before major processing?

[tubedude]

Mine always seem to sound strange until I go nuts with EQ, compression and a little dirt, then they start to sound like rock snares. But they never sound quite right just straight out of the pre, no matter how I mic them. I've tried different mics and put them in all kinds of places, never really sounds "right"
Your thoughts?

[drBill]

No, not at all. But then again, I'm not sure what you're going after. My drums sound pretty much just like I think they should sound. There's always some changes though after you add overdubs and vocals, but I try to make it sound right going in. Sounds like you may be having some phasing issues. Have you checked that?

[six_wax]

Either that, or you're recording less talented players with lesser equipment in compromised environments --which most of just call "Tuesday".

[joeq]

Originally Posted by tubedude

Mine always seem to sound strange until I go nuts with EQ, compression and a little dirt, then they start to sound like rock snares. But they never sound quite right just straight out of the pre, no matter how I mic them. I've tried different mics and put them in all kinds of places, never really sounds "right"
Your thoughts?

If your reference for a snare drum sound is all the records you have ever heard in your life, then it is not surprising that it doesn't sound "right" until it has hit 3 or 4 compressors and EQs and been multed a few times.

As a drummer, my reference for a snare is my snare drum. Tune it good, then an SM 57 into a DW Fearn and I think "that sounds like a snare".

Then, come mixdown time, I mult it, EQ it, compress it, bus it, group it, parallel compress the group and compress the 2 bus some more.

[David@MVS]

Originally Posted by joeq

If your reference for a snare drum sound is all the records you have ever heard in your life, then it is not surprising that it doesn't sound "right" until it has hit 3 or 4 compressors and EQs and been multed a few times.

Or, depending on what he is referencing ...the snare sound may all have been samples, or sample reinforced.

I never got a likeable snare sound from miking on top of the snare ( just me ).

I get most of the sound from the overheads.

(I can get a very useable sound by aiming the mic directly at the shell though.)

Regards,
David

[tubedude]

Maybe thats it, they just dont sound right to me miced from over the top in close. I've heard people mention micing the shell from the side (Fletcher for one of many) I guess I'l ltry that.
As far as phase, it sounds like weirdness when soloed too. Right now I'm using either a 57 into a BAE 312a, or an MD441 into the BAE if I trust the drummer not to kill my mic.
Maybe I'll post a sample. you guys might say "thats normal sounding" Who knows.

[chetatkinsdiet]

Close drum mics SHOULD sound goofy when soloed. Do this...
Throw up the OH's. Then start filling in with the close mics (if any)where needed. If you have room mics, bring them up with, or just after the OH mics. Then the close mics last to fill in the gaps and add the necessary punch.

m

[djui5]

If the snare didn't sound flat and weird it wouldn't need major processing

[s.d.finley]

If you can, try to dip out some resonance with a decent parametric EQ if ya can, before you track. Just sweep a narrow band boosted around until you find the most unpleasant frequency, and dip!!

Repeat as needed...

Just dont boost...

sdf

[Confusionator]

F*** these guys who say "don't boost." Have you seen the Chris-Lord Alge snare preset screenshot from the Waves SSL plugin that someone posted on this site? If not, it's here: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...highlight=alge

Pull out some of that nasty 800-1k ring. Boost the top. Boost or cut down low, too, if it helps.

An unprocessed snare does sound cool often, but more often than not a good bit of processing will make a good difference. And that includes reverb.

Dudes, there's a reason why mixing boards have lots of EQ bands that you can both cut and boost! It's not just for show....

[mtstudios@charter]

Originally Posted by tubedude

Mine always seem to sound strange until I go nuts with EQ, compression and a little dirt, then they start to sound like rock snares. But they never sound quite right just straight out of the pre, no matter how I mic them. I've tried different mics and put them in all kinds of places, never really sounds "right"
Your thoughts?

Well, I start with player and drum. Change the drumhead if it is old (White Coated Preferred). Tune the drum so it is even (same tone all around the rim) not too low give it snap. Make sure the drummer hits it consistently (in the same spot with the same velocity). Rim shots preferred. Try to get it to sound good without tape or muffling. Add muffling to a point, but don't kill it. Usually one little piece of duct or muffling product should due. I tad bit of compression with some eq boost. I usually boost while tracking and cut when mixing. On a Neve 1073 I boost 3k to 4k, 12k and 110hz. A lot to a little, depends on player and snare. I mic the top and bottom. Usually 57 and a hypercardioid (senn 441) mic of some sorts on bottom. I point mic at where stick lands and away from hi hat, back end of mics lowest pickup position at hi hat. I usually compress the bottom mic more. I reverse the polarity (Phase) for top mic, which thickens up the snare when you add in the overheads, and leave the bottom mic phase button out. When Mixing I gate my bottom snare and sometimes gate top snare. Sometime use a sample of other snares to brighten or fatten the sound, and throw a little PCM 70 short tiled room on the sampled snares. I parallel compress the snare with a DBX 165 set to fast attack medium release infinite ratio. I might cut some 800hz to 1k while mixing, or sometimes 200hz to 250hz if recorded with a terrible low ring. There you have it!

www.bluethumbproductions.com

[stevep]

Do your snares usually sound flat and weird before major processing?

Flat...... and weird........


nope.


they sound like snare drums.




if what you here in the control room is different than what you here at the drum kit just work at it until it does.

I just put the 57 on top and usually don't have to adjust it at all

You may be trying to hard


I have never had a hard time getting a snare drum to sound like a snare drum using a 57... and i don't track with any compression on the snare and most of the time i don't add any to the snare during the mix.

And if the drum is good no or very little EQ is needed during tracking


maybe you should post a sound...........................

[OHA]

Originally Posted by tubedude

Do your snares usually sound flat and weird before major processing?

No

[MixShmix]

Originally Posted by tubedude

Do your snares usually sound flat and weird before major processing?

No, but my voice certainly does!

[thermos]

It should sound almost perfect with a 57 and no eq. Otherwise its tuned wrong or played wrong.

[planet red]

I bet you're in the same situation as I was and your problem is weird comb filtering in the room. I used to spend hours on the snare to get it decent sounding with a lot of comp/eq.. now with a better sounding room and a 57 and I'm almost there right away.

Try some 703 panels behind and above the drum kit and see if your close miced sounds get better.. Id almost guarantee you they will..

I'm in the middle of hanging a grand's worth of 703 in my CR and live room and the difference is WAAAAAY bigger then anything I could have spent that money on. Its ridiculous why I didnt do this earlier..

Drums have way more definition.. bigger deeper and tighter bottom end, cleaner crisper clearer top end and midrange. Cymbals are way more defined. With no processing drums sound great.. plus I feel like without as much comb filtering they take eq and compression way better.. less bleed and adding top end adds clarity instead of just making it brighter... compression brings out more tone of the drums instead of nastiness.

[Alexi]

how much db do you guys usually boost when eqing?


I never boost more than 6 db.....is that already too much?



cheers

[pan]

Do your snares usually sound flat and weird before major processing?

Usually after ... uhh - backoff that threshold, lol

[OHA]

Originally Posted by Alexi

I never boost more than 6 db.....is that already too much?

No.

It depends on the source.

[AB3]

My snares sound great. But is starts with a good drummer, $750 DW snare, good acoustic space, just an AUDIX D2 into an API 3124+ with A designs Atty into a Lynx Aurora. Great rich, sweet and snappy enough snare sound.

[Pepe Ortega]

Originally Posted by David@MVS

OI get most of the sound from the overheads.

Thats the trick. try to balance set with OH mics. I open close mics for punch and/or definition.

[Rednose]

I only recently got decent snare sounds.
Its in the tuning and new heads, both top and bottom.
Try using some of the bottom mic too, and don't forget to flip the phase.
Also, look into drum tunning, there are videos on the web.
Most drummers can't properly tune thier kit, even if thier good drummers.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by tubedude

Mine always seem to sound strange until I go nuts with EQ, compression and a little dirt, then they start to sound like rock snares. But they never sound quite right just straight out of the pre, no matter how I mic them. I've tried different mics and put them in all kinds of places, never really sounds "right"
Your thoughts?

Micing a snare should start right at the begining with the over head microphone placement. "Adding" up your snares mic should give a pretty damn good idea of how it'll finally sound. It'll breath more and it should have a nicer top end when you add the over heads unless your OH placement was based more on cymbal mics as a lot of people treat OH'S in Jazz music for example.

Yes you have to tweak it but you should ballpark your tracking session with mic techniques before touching any other type of gear. Maybe think about EQ as an aid to fix and settle down things in your mix.

Have fun!
Pupo

[Chris Parsons]

57 --->API512 I rarely get a snare track that dosen't sound great (if the drum sounds good itself)

[Musiclab]

try micing like this, rather than from on top pointing down. From the top mic you get less from the top head. From the shell mic you get the snares and some air without the ugliness

[max cooper]

Yeah, I have to like the way the snare sounds when I'm standing in the room next to it first. Then if it doesn't come through the monitors like that, there's more work to do.

[EngineEars]

This is just my opinion, but I prefer the brightness of a metal snare vs. a wooden one for pop & rock recordings. Even live it sounds more like the KROC rock snare tone that you are use to hearing. Some wooden snares, combined with certain drummers translate into a "flat" sounding snare to me in the end.

Also the day I started using condensers on snare is the day that I stopped having to EQ a SM57 to hear the snare drum like I hear it in the drum room. At least combine two different mics if the 57 is the other. I know this will cause flames, but I love that Jon Brion doesn't allow SM57's in his sessions. It seems more often than not a habit than a tool that you would just grab if you didn't know any better. Again just my opinion, based on the first thing I do to a snare track that I'm mixing that was tracked by a 57 and I didn't know it.

[SMC Productions]

Originally Posted by EngineEars

Also the day I started using condensers on snare is the day that I stopped having to EQ a SM57 to hear the snare drum like I hear it in the drum room. At least combine two different mics if the 57 is the other. I know this will cause flames, but I love that Jon Brion doesn't allow SM57's in his sessions.

Smart man!

[PapillonIrl]

Originally Posted by mtstudi@pacbell

I usually compress the bottom mic more. I reverse the polarity (Phase) for top mic, which thickens up the snare when you add in the overheads, and leave the bottom mic phase button out.

www.bluethumbproductions.com

Interesting...the opposite to the eay I do it... I often flip the bottom mic and compress the top more, and have always wanted to be able to use my overhead snare sound more, but found it often a little thin.

Could be my room, or OH mics, or whatever...but I'm gonna try this.

Now if I could just get some of these drummers to stop tapping the snare and leathering the cymbals and open hats.

dfegad >>>And using LOUD stage cymbals.

[Bob Olhsson]

The distance between the mikes determines how phase needs to be set.

I generally phase each mike against a mono overhead mike. Sometimes slipping the tracks sounds even better but it's a time consuming process.