Good Distortion for Synths?

teknosmoker · 25th August 2006, 07:11 PM

I'm looking to beef up the sound of various outboard synths (analog & digital) with some distortion, helping them to cut through a mix. I've played with various digital effects/plugin distortions such as Izotope Trash (not too bad), TC Fireworx, Ensoniq DP4+, etc., but haven't been terribly impressed with any of them.

I've also tried overdriving various analog hardware like: JoeMeek pre's, crappy Mackie pre's, Moogerfooger pedals (OK for some stuff, but can be a little too creamy for other stuff - like leads), Frostwave Resonator (does the trick once in a while).

What good distortion has anyone used for this purpose? I'm not looking to break the bank, but flexibility and the ability to attain an aggresive sound, while retaining the some definition/character of the original are key factors.

Any thoughts or ideas?

vixapphire · 25th August 2006, 07:25 PM

the old marshall 9000 series single-space tube preamp (for guitars) is very good for this purpose. they can be had pretty cheaply on ebay, and if you play guitar, they're wonderfully versatile for that purpose too.

i use the tube instrument input in the drawmer 1969 for all my synth tracks which call for distortion anymore. it's probably well out of your price range and beyond your stated needs, but it does hella nice things to my VA synths.

Westex · 25th August 2006, 07:40 PM

How 'bout a Sansamp?

FalconerHK · 25th August 2006, 08:10 PM

Plug your synth into anything made by Behringer... oh wait, you said "good" distortion. My bad.

Seriously, though, I've had interesting results using guitar fx processors, including stomp boxes (depends on how much noise you're willing to put up with/gate).

Also, Jomox makes some synth-oriented distortion boxes, but I haven't played with them first-hand.

Good luck!

uncle duncan · 25th August 2006, 08:57 PM

Phoenix Audio Nicerizer isn't exactly distortion, but it does add presence.

Cojo · 25th August 2006, 09:24 PM

Hi.

I rember a long time ago I had an old Boss mixer, BX16 it was called. It distorded quite nice on tb303 acid lines if you gained it.

/Cojo

electric · 25th August 2006, 09:36 PM

sherman filterbank
sansamp psa-1

you got infinite styles of distortion between these two...

electric

teknosmoker · 25th August 2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric

sherman filterbank
sansamp psa-1

you got infinite styles of distortion between these two...

electric

Thanks to all who've replied.

The Sansamp PSA-1 looks pretty flexible & appealing. Does it sound digital though (I can't stand the thin digital sound of Line 6 stuff)?

...

Gregg Sartiano · 25th August 2006, 11:37 PM

There's a huge difference between micing a speaker and recording distortion straight off the pre (or whatever). An amp is always gonna sound more natural -- that may not be what you want.

Also, if you have Delay Compensation, try doing a distorted aux return and blending it with dry signal -- that is, if you're just using the distortion color a little.

GYang · 25th August 2006, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

Thanks to all who've replied.

The Sansamp PSA-1 looks pretty flexible & appealing. Does it sound digital though (I can't stand the thin digital sound of Line 6 stuff)?

...

It sounds anti-digital all the way !

sysexguy · 25th August 2006, 11:51 PM

Effector 13 Soda Meiser .......trust me!!!!!!

cheap too!

Art · 26th August 2006, 04:02 AM

Lexicon 284

cable · 26th August 2006, 05:43 AM

im not a big fan of guitar rig 2, but its pretty good for mangling synths (as is trash, as you mentioned.)

matucha · 26th August 2006, 09:48 AM

had some luck with tl audio fatman, this bastard overdrives easily

Sui_City · 26th August 2006, 10:14 AM

Thermionic Culture Vulture

love_tempo · 26th August 2006, 10:19 AM

I re-amp through a peavey classic 20 at high volumes. If you use a tubescreamer in front of it, you can get a different character. It depends on the synth too, something like a waldorf pulse can put out so much output that it's easy to distort it with almost anything. It helps to get the whole room shaking for convincing distortion.

Although I've had good results getting growling acid with some older cheaper solid state mixers on 303's and 101's too.

Bit reduction is probably the only severe digitial distortion I ever use regularly and that tends to work better on drum machine output. Although PSP VintageWarmer can do some nice subtle distortion if that's what you want.

rara114 · 26th August 2006, 10:41 AM

SPL Charisma. Real tube produce/induced 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion (the good kind)

waxx · 26th August 2006, 10:52 AM

sherman filterbank did the job for me good once, but some abuse of a Theriomonic Culture Vulture can also do a lot of good i hear from some gabberhouse makers i know here. i didn't try it myself yet. Or overdrive a mackie vlz mixer is an other gabberhouse trick.

Renaud Charlier · 26th August 2006, 06:28 PM

My tricks to dirty/distort/add attitude to clean or sterile synths:

- Thermionic Culture Vulture (the best...)
- TL audio studio overdrive (2nd hand)
- stomp boxes (big muff, deluxe memory man,...)
- send your synth/module to good all valve guitar amp and record it !

experiment and have fun...

teknosmoker · 26th August 2006, 07:33 PM

The Culture Vulture looks great & incredibly versitile, but is more than I want to spend on a distortion unit right now.

I've tried a few stompboxes like the Big Muff & ProCo Rat, but didn't get what I was looking for (Muff was a bit too smooth - nice tone though.....Rat did not retain enough of the original signal - didn't sound too bad when mixed with the original signal).

I'm going to try a few more guitar units as well as micing an amp, as many have suggested. If that doesn't do it for me, I may have to shell out more that I had originally planned.....(Sherman, TL, etc.....sh*t that Thermionic looks sexy!).

Damn - It's expensive being a perfectionist, with an addictive personality, into quality sounding gear!

Thanks again for the suggestions.

-T

Reptil · 26th August 2006, 08:43 PM

You can also look at a small modular system.
The charisma is nice. You can switch toobs.

GYang · 26th August 2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

Damn - It's expensive being a perfectionist, with an addictive personality, into quality sounding gear!

In high resolution audio (and most of today's DAW are so) creative signal distortion is actually one of great tools accessible only completely out of digital world.
I use countless guitar tube amps, preamps and blend many things together during tracking or mixing.
Right distortion is one sonic element I never succeeded to emulate in digital box satisfactorily. Even the best digital processing companies completely missed point here.

seaneldon · 26th August 2006, 10:29 PM

have fun. hurry up before they're gone again.

justbrian · 26th August 2006, 10:58 PM

It looks like alot of the suggestions here are leaning toward heavier distortion, so I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for, but I've had good luck tracking softsynths by running them on a seperate rig through an Apogee Rosetta and then through a FATSO before going into PT. Nothing "over the top" - certainly not what you'd get from a Sansamp or something - but a great deal of character and color to make things sit in the mix.

On a recent rock record I used a LOT of Amp Farm on the synths to help them sit in the "guitar zone", allowing them to be pretty forward in the mix without sounding too over the top "synthesizery".

Quote:

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

I'm looking to beef up the sound of various outboard synths (analog & digital) with some distortion, helping them to cut through a mix. I've played with various digital effects/plugin distortions such as Izotope Trash (not too bad), TC Fireworx, Ensoniq DP4+, etc., but haven't been terribly impressed with any of them.

I've also tried overdriving various analog hardware like: JoeMeek pre's, crappy Mackie pre's, Moogerfooger pedals (OK for some stuff, but can be a little too creamy for other stuff - like leads), Frostwave Resonator (does the trick once in a while).

What good distortion has anyone used for this purpose? I'm not looking to break the bank, but flexibility and the ability to attain an aggresive sound, while retaining the some definition/character of the original are key factors.

Any thoughts or ideas?

ShaneFontane · 27th August 2006, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaneldon

have fun. hurry up before they're gone again.

um... that's pretty damn cool

sleestack · 27th August 2006, 02:35 AM

Delia Derbyshire - Mattachin

Try to get the original.

The sound of the synths in this recording have that subtle over drive. Probably an accident. Can't hear it as well with the streamed file. Try to get a clean copy somewhere.

http://www.last.fm/music/Delia+Derbyshire/_/Mattachin

Empty Planet · 27th August 2006, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

The Sansamp PSA-1 looks pretty flexible & appealing. Does it sound digital though (I can't stand the thin digital sound of Line 6 stuff)?
...

Tech21's stuff stays analogue throughout the path, unlike the Line6 stuff.

They're very proud of the fact.

Got a GT2 here, as well as a Trademark 60. I think they're great pieces of kit.

Good luck.

Jim Williams · 27th August 2006, 04:15 PM

I always use one of my guitar amps. Start with the 15 watt hot rodded Champ, if not enough balls, it's to the 80 watt '65 Deluxe Reverb. Not enough balls?, go to the 100 watt tweaked Showman head or the 120 watt Basson head through a 480 watt 4x12. Great for Moog style soloing, like Jan Hammer.

Plugs and sans boxes are a waste of time.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Ruudman · 27th August 2006, 05:19 PM

ruudman

allstar · 27th August 2006, 06:24 PM

The Boss OS-2 is good on synths, particularly bass synth with the character control most of the way towards distortion as opposed to overdrive.

It's cheap and I bet you find a use for it.

Perhaps not for the faint hearted though.

P.S.

It's often NOT a good idea to have the synth output volume turned all the way up when going directly from synth output to pedal input as this limits the range of distortion possible. Also try running it from a power supply with less than 9v for some other interesting filth !

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25th August 2006, 07:11 PM	#1
teknosmoker Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In limbo Posts: 550	Good Distortion for Synths? I'm looking to beef up the sound of various outboard synths (analog & digital) with some distortion, helping them to cut through a mix. I've played with various digital effects/plugin distortions such as Izotope Trash (not too bad), TC Fireworx, Ensoniq DP4+, etc., but haven't been terribly impressed with any of them. I've also tried overdriving various analog hardware like: JoeMeek pre's, crappy Mackie pre's, Moogerfooger pedals (OK for some stuff, but can be a little too creamy for other stuff - like leads), Frostwave Resonator (does the trick once in a while). What good distortion has anyone used for this purpose? I'm not looking to break the bank, but flexibility and the ability to attain an aggresive sound, while retaining the some definition/character of the original are key factors. Any thoughts or ideas?

25th August 2006, 07:40 PM	#3
Westex Gear Head Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 38	How 'bout a Sansamp? __________________ Can't afford a vintage Neumann mic? Rent-to-own a Red Type B for only $65 a week!!! Find out how... JD Westex Media

25th August 2006, 08:10 PM	#4
FalconerHK Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central America (Texas) Posts: 173	Plug your synth into anything made by Behringer... oh wait, you said "good" distortion. My bad. Seriously, though, I've had interesting results using guitar fx processors, including stomp boxes (depends on how much noise you're willing to put up with/gate). Also, Jomox makes some synth-oriented distortion boxes, but I haven't played with them first-hand. Good luck! __________________ "We're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy!"

25th August 2006, 09:24 PM	#6
Cojo Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden! Posts: 1,466	Hi. I rember a long time ago I had an old Boss mixer, BX16 it was called. It distorded quite nice on tb303 acid lines if you gained it. /Cojo __________________ Conny Johansson [ www.asteroidkiller.com ]

25th August 2006, 07:25 PM	#2
vixapphire Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,088	the old marshall 9000 series single-space tube preamp (for guitars) is very good for this purpose. they can be had pretty cheaply on ebay, and if you play guitar, they're wonderfully versatile for that purpose too. i use the tube instrument input in the drawmer 1969 for all my synth tracks which call for distortion anymore. it's probably well out of your price range and beyond your stated needs, but it does hella nice things to my VA synths.

25th August 2006, 08:57 PM	#5
uncle duncan Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,933	Phoenix Audio Nicerizer isn't exactly distortion, but it does add presence.

25th August 2006, 09:36 PM	#7
electric Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 1,008	sherman filterbank sansamp psa-1 you got infinite styles of distortion between these two... electric

25th August 2006, 11:37 PM	#9
Gregg Sartiano Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 1,781	There's a huge difference between micing a speaker and recording distortion straight off the pre (or whatever). An amp is always gonna sound more natural -- that may not be what you want. Also, if you have Delay Compensation, try doing a distorted aux return and blending it with dry signal -- that is, if you're just using the distortion color a little. __________________ "We need to legitimize peer-to-peer sharing as a business model, because it's already a business. If [the P2P companies] are going to make money on us, we should have a chance to make money along with them." -- Perry Farrell on the failure of national intellectual property policy to keep up with the rapid evolution of online media "Every Internet transmission of a musical work constitutes a public performance of that work. " http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/webfaq.html

25th August 2006, 11:51 PM	#11
sysexguy Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St-Sauveur, QC, Canada Posts: 477	Effector 13 Soda Meiser .......trust me!!!!!! cheap too!

26th August 2006, 04:02 AM	#12
Art Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 196	Lexicon 284

26th August 2006, 05:43 AM	#13
cable Gear Head Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 41	im not a big fan of guitar rig 2, but its pretty good for mangling synths (as is trash, as you mentioned.)

26th August 2006, 09:48 AM	#14
matucha Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 2,014	had some luck with tl audio fatman, this bastard overdrives easily __________________ Matous Godik

26th August 2006, 10:14 AM	#15
Sui_City Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: South of South Posts: 755	Thermionic Culture Vulture

26th August 2006, 10:19 AM	#16
love_tempo Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 83	I re-amp through a peavey classic 20 at high volumes. If you use a tubescreamer in front of it, you can get a different character. It depends on the synth too, something like a waldorf pulse can put out so much output that it's easy to distort it with almost anything. It helps to get the whole room shaking for convincing distortion. Although I've had good results getting growling acid with some older cheaper solid state mixers on 303's and 101's too. Bit reduction is probably the only severe digitial distortion I ever use regularly and that tends to work better on drum machine output. Although PSP VintageWarmer can do some nice subtle distortion if that's what you want.

26th August 2006, 10:41 AM	#17
rara114 Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 135	SPL Charisma. Real tube produce/induced 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion (the good kind)

26th August 2006, 10:52 AM	#18
waxx Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 236	sherman filterbank did the job for me good once, but some abuse of a Theriomonic Culture Vulture can also do a lot of good i hear from some gabberhouse makers i know here. i didn't try it myself yet. Or overdrive a mackie vlz mixer is an other gabberhouse trick. __________________ http://www.urgent.fm

26th August 2006, 06:28 PM	#19
Renaud Charlier Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brussels Posts: 61	My tricks to dirty/distort/add attitude to clean or sterile synths: - Thermionic Culture Vulture (the best...) - TL audio studio overdrive (2nd hand) - stomp boxes (big muff, deluxe memory man,...) - send your synth/module to good all valve guitar amp and record it ! experiment and have fun... __________________ Renaud renaud@musicom.be www.musicom.be

26th August 2006, 07:33 PM	#20
teknosmoker Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In limbo Posts: 550	The Culture Vulture looks great & incredibly versitile, but is more than I want to spend on a distortion unit right now. I've tried a few stompboxes like the Big Muff & ProCo Rat, but didn't get what I was looking for (Muff was a bit too smooth - nice tone though.....Rat did not retain enough of the original signal - didn't sound too bad when mixed with the original signal). I'm going to try a few more guitar units as well as micing an amp, as many have suggested. If that doesn't do it for me, I may have to shell out more that I had originally planned.....(Sherman, TL, etc.....sh*t that Thermionic looks sexy!). Damn - It's expensive being a perfectionist, with an addictive personality, into quality sounding gear! Thanks again for the suggestions. -T

26th August 2006, 08:43 PM	#21
Reptil Gear Guru Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Uterèg statsie woar! Posts: 10,913	You can also look at a small modular system. The charisma is nice. You can switch toobs. __________________ For sale: BFE MK3d equaliser pair racked, Filtek equaliser last generation tight pair of mixing/mastering eqs in steel rack, with new PSU (230V) offers welcome - Woman, opening the door: Are you the police? Jake: No ma'm, we're musicians. Zymurgy's 1st Law: Once you open a can of worms, the only way to re-can them is to use a bigger can. - STOP MONSANTO DESTROYING THE PLANET !!!

26th August 2006, 10:29 PM	#23
seaneldon Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Foxboro, MA Posts: 2,082	have fun. hurry up before they're gone again.

27th August 2006, 02:35 AM	#26
sleestack Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 733	Delia Derbyshire - Mattachin Try to get the original. The sound of the synths in this recording have that subtle over drive. Probably an accident. Can't hear it as well with the streamed file. Try to get a clean copy somewhere. http://www.last.fm/music/Delia+Derbyshire/_/Mattachin

27th August 2006, 04:15 PM	#28
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 4,258	I always use one of my guitar amps. Start with the 15 watt hot rodded Champ, if not enough balls, it's to the 80 watt '65 Deluxe Reverb. Not enough balls?, go to the 100 watt tweaked Showman head or the 120 watt Basson head through a 480 watt 4x12. Great for Moog style soloing, like Jan Hammer. Plugs and sans boxes are a waste of time. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

27th August 2006, 05:19 PM	#29
Ruudman Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 2,848	ruudman __________________ Working Class Hero Visit this website of Noma Children Hospital Sokoto

27th August 2006, 06:24 PM	#30
allstar Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 117	The Boss OS-2 is good on synths, particularly bass synth with the character control most of the way towards distortion as opposed to overdrive. It's cheap and I bet you find a use for it. Perhaps not for the faint hearted though. P.S. It's often NOT a good idea to have the synth output volume turned all the way up when going directly from synth output to pedal input as this limits the range of distortion possible. Also try running it from a power supply with less than 9v for some other interesting filth !