snare drums

[pan60]

i am looking for a nice vintage snare.
i have been looking at the slinrerland's and rogers drums, oh and gretsch.
what do i need to look for, how do i know what is student grade and what is pro grade.
number of lugs dose it matter ?
wood, maple mahogany, steel, vistalite?
i am not a drummer, but i know we have more then a few gearslutz that are.
maybe some thoughts on how the different materials sound as well as what to look for to get the best quality.
thanks

[Rednose]

If your looking for vintage, its probably best to stay with wood.
Pearl has a master series snare that I've recorded recently and liked alot.

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by pan60

i am looking for a nice vintage snare.
i have been looking at the slinrerland's and rogers drums, oh and gretsch.
what do i need to look for, how do i know what is student grade and what is pro grade.
number of lugs dose it matter ?
wood, maple mahogany, steel, vistalite?
i am not a drummer, but i know we have more then a few gearslutz that are.
maybe some thoughts on how the different materials sound as well as what to look for to get the best quality.
thanks

Hey Pan,

After owning a number of "high end" snares (including custom jarrah block snares and a Supraphonic) I ended up getting rid of a lot and settling on one.

It's a 1967 Ludwig Acrolite. It's not expensive. It doesn't have a fancy throw-off. It has only eight lugs. It doesn't have fat hoops.

What it does have is a wide tuning range, the ability to be caressed and smacked and provide decent tone, it doesn't need to be damped down, has the ability to take various heads without any qualms, and it always sounds good whatever room it's in.

Yes, it chokes if smacked too hard, so I cut a small hole in the snare-side head to let it ventilate a little easier. No, it won't sound like an 8" maple snare, nor 13" piccolo. Nor will it have the ring of a stainless steel snare, or the complexity of a copper or brass snare.

And, no, it won't have the cache of the "big brand" drums costing the wrong side of a thousand bucks.

But you will have a drum that's reliable and able to be played under nearly every circumstance. In my experience, it's one of the most under-rated drums in the "vintage" world.

And it will cost you less than $500 for a completely mint one. Mine came with the original Ludwig snare stand and hard case.

I'm very happy with mine, and it get's used all the time.

Cheers to you,

bdp

[digibird]

Definitely buy Ludwig for snares, vintage or new. Don't buy vintage drums unless you know drums and know what you are looking for - take a drummer friend that really knows his stuff to the shops with you.

I would buy a new or used Ludwig Supraphonic, 6 1/2 x 14. If you want to spend less, I agree on the Ludwig Acrolite mentioned above - I recently got a '70's blue/olive badge Acrolite in excellent condition for $110. I was very pleased. I also have a pre-serial# Supra, a black beauty, a 1963 4x14 in sky blue pearl and a Ludwig maple 8x14 snare. I'm a big fan of ludwig snares, yeah.

[warhead]

I've been testing mics all week on drums at the Jam Room, and they have an Acrolite and it's for sure a nice snare! Once I scrape together the cash though I'm likely to pick up a 14x5" Black Beauty...now there's a classic sound and versatile size.

War

[pan60]

Originally Posted by digibird

Don't buy vintage drums unless you know drums and know what you are looking for - take a drummer friend that really knows his stuff to the shops with you.

well what i am trying to learn is what is a quality drum.

Originally Posted by pan60

i am looking for a nice vintage snare.
what do i need to look for?
how do i know what is student grade and what is pro grade.
number of lugs dose it matter ?
wood, maple mahogany, steel, vistalite?
what to look for to get the best quality.

Originally Posted by digibird

take a drummer friend that really knows his stuff to the shops with you.

well i do not own any friends so that is not in the works.

plan on snagging some snare drums off ebay.

[pan60]

i will look into the Ludwig Acrolite.

[AdamJay]

www.vintagesnaredrums.com

great resource of information.

[pan60]

cool link!

thanks
Adam

[digibird]

Originally Posted by pan60

well what i am trying to learn is what is a quality drum.




well i do not own any friends so that is not in the works.

plan on snagging so snare drums off ebay.

Ludwig Black Beauty

Ludwig Acrolite

Ludwig Supraphonic

Ludwig Maple

Any of these in 5 x 14 or 6 1/2 x 14 will be excellent.

Come back here to ask if the price you have found on E-bay is a fair one - then you can feel good about your purchase.

[DeanS311]

Gretsch Broadkaster would be amazing!

[pan60]

i snagged two Ludwig Acrolites, a Ludwig Supraphonic, and and a WFL mahogany pearl wrap snare.
still looking to ad a few more to the collection.
Gretsch is on my watch list: )~

[digibird]

Originally Posted by pan60

i snagged two Ludwig Acrolites, a Ludwig Supraphonic, and and a WFL mahogany pearl wrap snare.
still looking to ad a few more to the collection.
Gretsch is on my watch list: )~

Excellent! You are Snare Man. Enjoy your new purchases.

Try out a Ludwig Vistalite 61/2x14 snare while you're at it. They are not as highly regarded as the others, but if you can tune a snare drum, the Vistalites can be great. I have a set of the new reissues and love them. They record well.

[Rob-K]

Suggestions:

Ludwig Black Beauty or sufficient clone (I bought the one from WorldMax)
Ludwig Supraphonic 400 (Step up from the Acrolite - Killer Drum)
Ludwig Acrolite (CHEAP! Found mine on Ebay for $150).

Also look into early 60s Ludwig wood snares if you're looking to steer away from metal.

[pan60]

i will probably add a Vistalite at some time but i am on the wood hunt for now: )~

[msquared]

Keep in mind that there are a lot of snare drums out there and they tend to cover a lot of bases sonically. If you were to try to build a snare collection to cover any general eventuality, you'd need at least four or five drums. They are very much like the 500 series gear of the drum world.

Here are some that I like:
Sonor's Designer series
Ayotte Keplinger (with wood hoops)
Dunnett Classic Titanium
Dunnett Classic Stainless Steel
Premier Genista
Noble & Cooley single ply maple
Ludwig Black Beauty
Ludwig Supra
Gretsch chrome over brass
Tama's hand-hammered snares
Tama Bill Bruford signature
Yamaha Elvin Jones signature (with or without wood hoops)
Yamaha bamboo

What makes a good snare drum is a lot less defined than what makes a good preamp or a good mic. Part of this is because personal preference is so across the board with snares and part of this is that what works in the studio isn't always what works live. Some consistent things would be solid hardware (so the thing is dependable), good bearing edge work (this affects tuning mostly), and shell material (which affects the overall tone). Some people go as far as to have serious opinions about vent holes and snare wires and hoops.

It is worth mentioning that the heads you put on the drum have a lot to do with the sound, as does the tuning. I cannot stress enough that if you are going to be spending money on these things, you should take a couple hours and go to your local drum shop and take a class on how to properly tune a drum. I don't feel that you'll be getting your money's worth or time's worth out of the instrument if you don't, even if someone else will be playing it. I would rather play or record a well tuned Acrolite with good heads than any of the above snares with dead heads which are not tuned well.

[digibird]

pan60 - Here's a link for your continuing search:

Jammin Jersey: New & Used Drums, Cymbals, Percussion

New Ludwig wooden snare drums (maple) are a good deal, and you can get good prices here:

Atlanta Pro Percussion - Drums and Percussion On-line Drum Shop

They are good guys and ship anywhere.

[pan60]

thanks!!!!!

[analogjeff]

i know you're onto wood drums now, but for others in the future... i also think 60's ludwig supraphonics (5x14 or 6x14) can be great... set up right they do both depth and crack really well... great for alt and indie rock... and they're affordable, and there're usually a bunch for sale at ebay, as there are right now...

[talkshowman]

The holy trinity of snare drums for recording are:

Ludwig Supraphonic (spun aluminium shell)
Ludwig Black Beauty (esp. late 70's models) (spun brass shell)
Slingerland Radioking (1ply maple shell)

These are in my opinion the benchmark snare drums, the ones that all others are essentially modeled after. Any self respecting recording drummist should own all three (I'm a 1/3 of the way there).

[pan60]

Originally Posted by analogjeff

i know you're onto wood drums now, but for others in the future... i also think 60's ludwig supraphonics (5x14 or 6x14) can be great... set up right they do both depth and crack really well... great for alt and indie rock... and they're affordable, and there're usually a bunch for sale at ebay, as there are right now...

do the 60s vintage sound considerably different then the 70s?

[Cameron Johnson]

Hey

My best advice is to go to a music store and try out all of the snares there... The difference between a high end snare and a low end is usually just a matter of shell materials, overal construction and quality of the bearing edges (the edges the head sits on).

For you, I would recommend a snare made of Chrome Over Brass (COB), as these snares often carry the qualities of a metal drum, while still having a bit of warmth. If you want a wood drum that can sound like a metal drum, get one made of a super-dense wood with a THICK shell (Pearl came out with the Eric Singer model snare...10-ply of mahogany I think).

There's no one company to buy snares from - some people will tell you to get a Pearl, others say Ludwig, etc... My best advice would be to either try them yourself, or get a drummer friend who knows what a good drum sounds like - not by what company it's made by, but by how it actually sounds. One that's easy to tune up is usually a bonus is the studio (some drums sound great, but it takes some time to get them there, while others sound great quickly).

I used to test snares blindfolded - getting the drum manager at my local drum shop to line up 4 or 5 snares on stands, then he'd lead me in and I'd play each one (rim shots and centre hits). That way, I always listened with my ears, rather than my eyes. Of course, it also helps that I'm a full-time drummer, too

Cheers,
Cam

PS - many will tell you that drums from the '60s sound different from drums from the '70s... some do, but the differences are minor, and they tend to vary from drum to drum (even if they are the same model by the same company...) Most drums from those eras used a shell molding technique that uses butted edges, which tend to dry funny and warp ever so slightly... This was more the case in the 60s, as they found better glues in the 70s... Though I would say (as a person who plays these things for multiple hours every day) that the differences are very marginal.

[analogjeff]

Originally Posted by pan60

do the 60s vintage sound considerably different then the 70s?

based on personal experience, mid-60's supraphonics are definitely better than 70's ones...

[dafe]

If you happen to run into a Premier snare, 14x4(!) which pretends to be brass (finish) and is in fact alloy, give it a try. Very versatile.
Mine is stolen long agostike . Im doing very well meanwhile now with a Pearl model Marvin smitty Smith. Dead-ugly but good too and not expensive, as is the Premier (both sub 500$ in their time).

[mltamisin]

Vintage wooden snares are nice but I wouldn't recommend buying one on ebay. There are so many things you need to look at and inspect and have someone else look at. First of which, is the shell in round? Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Maybe the drums been sitting in grandpa's attic for 30 years warping away. Who knows. Are the bearing edges flat? Have any modifications been done? What about the snare beds? All these things affect wooden snares in a huge way. Not to mention the actual wood itself. It's something you should go try out and then buy that exact one. Not one like it on ebay or whatever. It may not sound the same for a multitude of reasons. Cymbals are the same way. Metal snares aren't as prone to these things.

[fooman]

I bought a Ludwig snare from the 70's... I know it is based on the case and snare stand. Also the resonant skin is definitely not from anything of this era...

Anyways, I had to do some repairs. I learned a lot about how a snare drum is put together... that's for sure.

I recorded a Rogers' metal snare. It cut through in the metal mix. It sounded great, and I wish more drummers would have snares that rang out like that one. The drums themselves sounded amazing as well.

[drmmrboy]

It's been 2 years. Didja get a snare yet?

We have a dozen or so different snares, and I keep coming back to my Black Beauty. It just sounds right to me. Tune it high, tune it low, throw a wallet on it, whatever..

There's an old 60's wood Slingerland that gets used a lot too.

A few peeps mentioned the Ludwig Supraphonic's. If I didn't have the BB, I'd be using one of these in the same way as the BB. These drums are rumoured to be the most recorded snare drum in history. There's so many of them out there, you can get one on the cheap. (Maybe three supras for the price of one 500 module!)

If I didn't have one, & needed a snare, I'd start with a supra.

[allencollins]

you should be looking at the material and the construction
as opposed to the brandname

material and the construction are the sound not the logo

[Grumblefoot]

Look at the Tama Birch/Bubinga, Pearl masters, and the Yamaha Anton Fig is the shit.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by drmmrboy

It's been 2 years. Didja get a snare yet?

yep

Originally Posted by pan60

i snagged two Ludwig Acrolites, a Ludwig Supraphonic, and and a WFL mahogany pearl wrap snare.
still looking to ad a few more to the collection.
Gretsch is on my watch list: )~

i post some pics somewhere around here before?
two Ludwig Acrolites, a sixties and a early seventies i think
a Ludwig Supraphonic, a early seventies not sure?
WFL mahogany pearl wrap snare, a mid to late fifties i think?
i am still looking for others but now i am mostly just looking, hoping for the killer deal!