Black Lion Audio 002 mod

[Phrygian]

Mine's scheduled for early September, I can't wait!

[macr0w]

Did you go for the whole enchilada or what? Meaning converters, pres and other anolog i/o. Let us 002 owners know if you are still happy in a week or so. I have been thinking about doing it too but I haven't jumped yet.

[Gerax]

I started a similar thread a few days ago asking for some real world results of the mod; I'm mainly interested in the mixing and clocking part than the preamps (I don't track with the 002's pres, using outboard ones); Is there a real distinguishable improvement in the sound of a mix with the clock mod? Do you hear any differences? And if yes, of what kind? Do you feel the mix sounds better even in a ITB bounced file too? Is it a comparable improvement to clocking the 002 to, say, an Apogee Rosetta A/D?

Thanx

L.G.

[superburtm]

keep the reviews coming! I'm looking for a cheap way to improve my system thumbsup

[LewKellogg]

Mine is way better!

[six_wax]

Ditto. The converter mod is pretty impressive just from a monitoring standpoint. Haven't really eval'd the pres & input section, since I have other chains I rely on more when tracking at home.

The clock mod may have introduced a bit of instability when sync'ing to an external clock via SPDIF, but I haven't had the bandwidth to really test that thoroughly.

The customer service & communication from BLA has been outstanding!

[meteor]

Mine just arrived from BLA. I'm out on an engineering job next week so I will try to start getting back about it the week after.

cheers,

[uncle duncan]

My understanding is that the clock mod disables the ability to slave sync via spdif or adat, although slave sync via clock input is still possible. I've asked them to put this info on their website, but I haven't seen it yet. The improvement of the analog components is supposed to be dramatic, so you would notice it more on tracks recorded through the mod. In the situation where you're mixing existing tracks recorded without the mod, you're dealing with crappy audio, and the improvement would be less noticable.
I'd be glad to post files comparing a modded 828 with a stock 2408MK3, but I won't be getting my unit back for another week or 2.

[chrisp2u]

Way worth the $$$ IMHO, though I haven't really been able to spend a lot of quality time to take advantage of all the improvements yet. I've sync'd things TO the 002R without issue via S/PDIF so far, but have not sync'd the 002R to anything else. Just curious, why would you want to sync it to something else, since it's supposed to be markedly better than the stock, unless you own a BigBen or something, of course. Could always get the mod without the clock enhancement.
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c

[meteor]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

My understanding is that the clock mod disables the ability to slave sync via spdif or adat, although slave sync via clock input is still possible. I've asked them to put this info on their website, but I haven't seen it yet.

Is this true? I heard that the clock/re-clocking circuit improved it's ability to slave via the SPDIF or ADAT. Please verify if you can. I can't test mine until after next week and if this is true I will have to re-think my whole approach.

We are talking about a 002 and those units do not have a Clock input or output.

cheers,

[chrisp2u]

Is this true? I heard that the clock/re-clocking circuit improved it's ability to slave via the SPDIF or ADAT. Please verify if you can. I can't test mine until after next week and if this is true I will have to re-think my whole approach.

Just curious if anyone has actually confirmed this or had issues with it. I've had no prob slave sync'ing my BLA modded 002R via the S/PDIF, but last week I picked up a Audient ASP008, and tried slaving the 002R to that via ADAT and I get pops and clicks a plenty.

Sent an email to the BLA guys last night and haven't heard anything yet. Suppose I could pick up a clock distributor like the Antelope Isochrone DA and send the 002R clock to that via the S/PDIF out then clock everything from there. Anyone else slaving via ADAT successfully with this mod?
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c

[Phrygian]

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

picked up a Audient ASP008, and tried slaving the 002R to that via ADAT and I get pops and clicks a plenty.

Did you set the 002r to clock ADAT? I know when I forget to set it I get more snap, crackle and pop than Rice Krispies!

[chrisp2u]

Originally Posted by Phrygian

Did you set the 002r to clock ADAT? I know when I forget to set it I get more snap, crackle and pop than Rice Krispies!

Yup. Depending on the bit depth and sample rate (i created sessions to test all the possible combos there) it differs quite a bit, but there's snap, crackle and pop in all of them.
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c

[seandoe]

Hey, first post. I'm bumping this because I just signed to get the mod on my 002R done in about 3 weeks. I never read about this issue anywhere else. I'm concerned because for now, when recording drums or live situations I also use an m-audio octane. I emailed BLA asking about the mod and it being worth it for me using that for certain situations, as well as having to mix in the box. In the response, they said the ITB mixes would be noticibly better, and just asked why I couldn't clock the octane off the digi002. The octane only has BNC wordclock in and out. When I responded saying that, they didn't say anything except that I can still track other stuff with the better upgraded digi clock. Is this going to be a huge problem for me, and render my octane completely useless??

[chrisp2u]

I wanted to clock from my 002R, so I picked up a Antelope Isochrone DA, which might be an option for you. It allows me to run the S/PDIF out from my 002R and distribute wordclock via BNC to my other components. I'm still experiencing the pops and clicks through the incoming 002R ADAT from the ASP008, so I think my problem is elewhere... still trying to work it out.

I would think you should be able to slave the 002R to the octane clock via ADAT without a problem though... though I've never seen any real confirmation of issues ADAT slave syncing a BLA modded 002R yet. I actually just sent my 002R back to the guys at BLA so they can update it to their newer clock design (mine was one of the early/original 002R clcok mods they did).
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c

[seandoe]

Thanks for the response!! How is the Antelope Isochrone DA working for your situation? I thought I read a couple of times on this board that the dude from BLA said clocking through adat and s/pidif were shitty ways to have to clock. You should lshare your results. I would definitely love to be able to clock from the new good clock in the digi....sucks to think about having to spend more than the octane and the digi mod (nearly combined even) to be able to do that.
I've never had any issues before clocking to the octane when I needed to use it, and like I said, until I came across this thread, I never heard it was supposed to be an issue after getting the BLA mods. You should let us know if the problem is corrected when you get yours back.

[amishsixstringe]

Mine is on Matt's bench right now getting the full deal. I was trying to figure out a way to clock my digimax off of my 002R as well. Has anyone had success clocking their digimimax/octane/octapre off of the digi clock in any method?. I'm only days away from hearing her now. Take care

Neil

[DowntownScience]

Can BLA Mod The Digi 002 Factory?

[Studiocat]

As far as I know, "factory" is just a plugin bundle that you can buy with the interface. But yes, BLA does mods on the 002 or the 002r...

Cheers
Adam

[zilla_studios]

Last week I was transfering a mix off of our Masterlink into PT via S/PDIF-- the first pass had pops in it, so I checked the clock source and found that I was clocking off the 002r as I had initially intended.

So, I swithced to external clock via S/PDIF and got a nice clean transfer. Upon subsequent playback from PT, the internal clock beat out the Masterlink, but I was surprised that the Masterlink really did OK as an external clock. So this week, I was at a friend's place and had him do a blind comparison of clocking via the Masterlink vs. his stock internal clock and we both picked the Masterlink every time although the difference wasn't staggering.

Anyway, we love the sound of our BLA modded 002r and have succesfully clocked externally via S/PDIF for what it's worth.

[Pizzahands]

Ok so perhaps this should be another thread however I will leave that up to the powers that be. I just got my 002 back from Black Lion yesterday (ultra prompt btw). Now I happen to have a stock 002 next to it in the rack. So I decided to do some comparison. Now I will admit that this is not the most ideal of test situations as there are no dual setups with Y cables but so far I am a little confused/dissapointed. As of now the only difference I have been able to hear/sense is a mild improvement in monitoring clarity and the stereo field (???possibly a placebo). So far all recordings have been unconclusive for me. I want to hear a difference so bad but nothing has stood out particularly. It feels like maybe they just unpacked this thing turned it upside down repacked it and shipped it back off to me. Now I don't have the best ears in the world but seriously this doesn't seem right so far. Now I am wondering if....
1. anyone else has had this experience
2. anyone can suggest a good test for me to do in order to determine a change.
3. (this one is a little crazy) anyone who can tell me if I was to open up the 002r what to look for in order to confirm that all the modifications have been done.

I would really appreciate any and all help with this. ok werd

[AlexLakis]

Don't just open up an old session and push play.

Spend some time with it. Do a fresh tracking session and mix on it.

It really depends on how you use it as to the degree you will notice a difference. Do you use the onboard pres? The analog inserts? Do you monitor thru the monitoring section? Do you clock externally or internally?

If you clock internally, record thru the pres, use the analog inserts, and monitor thru the monitoring section, I guarentee you the results will be very apparent to you.

Personally, I almost never used the pres or any other I/O except for ADAT, and clocked externally. I noticed a huge difference in the clarity and stereo field in the monitoring immediately after opening up a recent session. And I'll actually be using the onboard pres now for things other than scratch/talkback!

I might even continue to use the monitoring section if I can figure out a way to pump seperate feeds to the ANALOG 1&2, MON OUT, and ALT OUT...

[Pizzahands]

thanks Alex I am currently clocking internally. I did do some preliminary new recordings.
Nothing miked really just direct through the line ins. I actually have a couple of examples of some synths and drum machine that I was thinking I might upload just to see if others can hear differences that I am missing.

[seandoe]

I've heard people say it's a lot bigger difference when comparing multiple tracks too, compared with just a single track or two. And of course whether it was tracked before or after the mod. FWIW I just got mine back from getting the mod done a few weeks ago. I also wanted and was hoping for an extreme night and day difference and when I first opened it and got it running I sorta just went "....huh." I had no way to compare a stock one to my newly modded one but luckily just a day before I had sent it in I was screwing around with a very rough mix of something my band had recorded in my basement and I had bounced a small portion of it to my computer. When I remembered that, I called the exact same session back up as I had left it and bounced the same thing over. Through my computer speakers, I definitely noticed the difference between the 2 bounces. Same thing everyone else says....less muddy lows, could tell more details in the stereo field....The biggest difference I could tell was the cymbals had a lot more brightness and clarity to them...where before they're was a sortof washy-haze over them. The guitars also seemed to have a little more body/growl to them, where the older one had them sortof sounding hollow, or phasey or "boxy" kinda sounding. I really dont think this crappy little recording I did represents the full extent of the improvements it made, but keeping it mind that that was all even tracked before I got the mod, it was enough to get me pumped about thinking i might be starting on the right track. I'm actually just starting to track my first project after getting it, so I'm excited to see if I can notice a bigger difference.

[Pizzahands]

Sorry Alex to further answer your questions. In both instances I am monitoring out of 1&2 and into a command 8. Is there any chance the Command 8 is masking differences and or muddying the waters ? As I ask this I realize that the easiest answer for this would be for me to take the command 8 out of the equation however my speaker connects don't reach that far thumbsup . I mean I can clearly hear the differences in the examples posted here by others and am definitely not getting that on my end. Also in response to the whole bounces sounding better is it not true that this mod shouldnt really effect the bounces or does the upgraded clock play any factor in this? I could easily bounce some things out of both. Also to refer back to my first post is there any way for me to check that the mods have actually been done. I would love to just rule this slim possibility out because as of now I feel like a crazy person running back and forth behind my rack and swapping cables over and over again. Thanks for all the help so far and hey if nothing else at least I managed to void the warranty on this bad boy.

[jimj166]

pizzahands you should be aware that going out of the 002 into the command 8 and monitoring out of the command 8 is going to muddy up your signal again. By monitoring out of the command 8 outputs section, you have just put yourself back into another bad input and output analog stage. Try your tests again without the command 8. Monitor out of each individual units monitor outputs. Also I have sent you a pm.

[Pizzahands]

Thanks Jim I hit you back already. Hey what about a mod for the Command 8 ? My gut has always told me that thing was grotty. I will cut that thing out of the loop today.

[superburtm]

What did you dislike about the sound on the stock 002 ?

Originally Posted by Pizzahands

Ok so perhaps this should be another thread however I will leave that up to the powers that be. I just got my 002 back from Black Lion yesterday (ultra prompt btw). Now I happen to have a stock 002 next to it in the rack. So I decided to do some comparison. Now I will admit that this is not the most ideal of test situations as there are no dual setups with Y cables but so far I am a little confused/dissapointed. As of now the only difference I have been able to hear/sense is a mild improvement in monitoring clarity and the stereo field (???possibly a placebo). So far all recordings have been unconclusive for me. I want to hear a difference so bad but nothing has stood out particularly. It feels like maybe they just unpacked this thing turned it upside down repacked it and shipped it back off to me. Now I don't have the best ears in the world but seriously this doesn't seem right so far. Now I am wondering if....
1. anyone else has had this experience
2. anyone can suggest a good test for me to do in order to determine a change.
3. (this one is a little crazy) anyone who can tell me if I was to open up the 002r what to look for in order to confirm that all the modifications have been done.

I would really appreciate any and all help with this. ok werd

[Gear Tramp]

Originally Posted by Pizzahands

As of now the only difference I have been able to hear/sense is a mild improvement in monitoring clarity and the stereo field (???possibly a placebo).

3. (this one is a little crazy) anyone who can tell me if I was to open up the 002r what to look for in order to confirm that all the modifications have been done.

I've heard people say it's a lot bigger difference when comparing multiple tracks too, compared with just a single track or two. And of course whether it was tracked before or after the mod. FWIW I just got mine back from getting the mod done a few weeks ago. I also wanted and was hoping for an extreme night and day difference and when I first opened it and got it running I sorta just went "....huh."

I sent off for modification a while ago:

If you cannot immediately hear the difference, even in monitoring (D/A) a previously tracked mix, you need to get your ears checked, you may have damage, no offense. Many people are putting the horse before the cart these days. If your ears & room aren't developed enough to hear improved conversion and analog staging, then you don't need it yet. Spend the money where you will hear a difference until you can develop the ability to discern more. Listening is something that you can develop. Not everyone is born with golden ears.

When they perform the modification they replace the clock and the analog stages. Open it up and take a look at the analog inputs and outputs. They are all completely replaced. To suggest that BLA is not even performing the modification and charging you for it on a public forum is pretty slanderous, and wildly unnecessary. Did you even bother to contact BLA with your questions before coming here?

Again, the difference in the unit after the mod is very, very apparent. No scientific testing is needed. It is immediately apparent if your monitoring and room are in order.