Mixing ITB question.. regarding stems and compression

[Rockman]

Hey guys...

I mix all ITB. But I still haven't mastered (err.. no pun intended) that concept though. Still not happy with the results. For the record, I have PT Mix Plus 5.1, with Apogee Rosetta 800 converters. I use Waves Rennaissance plugs almost exclusively (mostly EQs, compressors and limiters). I track everything with Brent Averill 1084's, distressors and vintage LA-3A compressors. I have good mics as well. So let's assume for a moment that I have good quality audio in my Pro Tools session... and now, it's mix and mastering time...

Ok.. now for my question... Regarding mixing to stems (or sub busses, etc)... for the various groups of instruments (eg. drums and bass one 1 buss... gtrs on the next... vox on the next, etc...). My question is, do you guys insert compressors or limiters (plugs) on those individual busses as well? before they hit the 2-buss? Or do you simply rely on the compressors on the individual tracks? or both?

I've been experimenting with various degrees of compression, at various stages of the mix process, in an attempt to get a good, punchy sound (pop rock mostly), and get my overall mix loud enough, without having to squash the hell out of it at the end. And I always seem to hit a brick wall at some point. Meaning, if I don't apply MAJOR gain reduction with a Waves L2 on the entire mix (I'm talking 10 dB of gain reduction, which is ridiculous)... I can't get the mixes nearly loud enough.

A lot of people on this forum mentioned that with an L2, anything more than 2 or 3 dB of gain reduction is going to sound like crap... which is probably true. But let's consider this for a moment. If you have your mix sounding pretty good and balanced... but the overall level of the mix is pretty low... what else can you do, other than apply an L2 (or whatever) on it? Isn't it reasonable to assume that if you're not going to get more than those 2 or 3 dB of gain (from the L2)... then, the rest of the needed gain (to make your mix louder) theoretically has to come from some other factor? (either during the mix process... or by a different method of mastering, like clipping the AD converters, etc).

Which brings me back to my original question... do you guys compress and/or limit your stems or sub-busses? to get things a bit louder and for them to sit more evenly in the mix before hitting the 2-buss?

And also... a quick 2nd question, which is somewhat related... If during the middle of your mix process, you guys bypass all your 2-buss inserts for a minute (EQ, compressor, limiter, etc)... do you find that your snare drum is ridiculously louder than everything else?

Thanks

[kats]

Loudness isn't just about compression. If your goal is "loud" you have to start thinking about your EQ and especially your bass frequencies that are eating up the bandwidth. IE getting a big bass sound without using lots of bass fun stuff actually. Compression is really the last peice of the puzzle. That's why your ending up slamming with the L2 - you have not built the foundation for a loud track. So get back in there and start compromising

[Rockman]

Thanks Kats. Actually, I already do that. I use a lot of HP filters, on individual tracks, as well as on the 2-buss. I usually HP the 2-buss at around 40Hz... (give or take). So I really don't have a lot of sub low frequencies in the mix...

My main problem is not so much the lows... it's the snare getting eaten up, when using the L2 limiter.... that more than anything else is what I seem to notice. I lost the backbeat (snare hits).

[Methlab]

I wouldnt HP my 2 buss. I wouldn't EQ it at all.

I compress individual tracks and then compress them again in a group. I also mix through a compressor. I rarely slam the compressors, instead going for 3-4 dbs of compression on each instance.

I slam the comps in parallel though.

If you are going for -10 db of compression on an L2, something is wrong. I mean you should not compress more then 2-3 db with an L2.

[Rockman]

I understand. Makes sense to me... I was wondering, when you bypass all your inserts on your 2-buss... what level does your master fader peak at? (before it hits the compressor and limiter)?

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by Methlab

If you are going for -10 db of compression on an L2, something is wrong. I mean you should not compress more then 2-3 db with an L2.

Could it be that I'm not using enough compression on individual tracks (and subgroups) ? Any thoughts?

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Could it be that I'm not using enough compression on individual tracks (and subgroups) ? Any thoughts?

Automation is your friend.

Use an outside mastering engineer. Stop trying to master it yourself in the same environment your mixing in...

I feel you on the snare problem

[SiliconAudioLab]

Rockman, post a 15 second clip example, maybe if we hear it we can be of more assistance.

There are always two frequency zones that build up in mixes, almost no matter WHAT kind of music, and they are; @ 40 ~75hz and @320hz. Those nodes need to be notched down a little. In fact I pull these down quite a bit. Others might argue it's got to be tackled on a case by case basis, and while that may be true, it's these frequency mathematical summing points "down there" that always seem to rob a mix of it's overall volume potential.

As to your snare, that's always the biggest beast to tame. It should smack and crack when the other "meat" of the song is not present but it must make room for the vocals and guitar and the bulk of the overall package when necessary. Note I didn't say it should be wimpy but some of the best mixes, like say some Steely Dan material, are mixed by making room (or compromises) in: frequencies + level + time.

What I mean by "time" is that at the right point in time the snare goes nuclear but when appropriate it must play well with the other kids. Automation is key for this. Lots and lots of serious automation.

Yes my snare is pretty loud when compression is removed, that's somewhat of a normal situation.

Also better get a GREAT mix-buss compressor. Waves are fine for the tracking and I also use them a lot, but you'll need some serious hardware for the mix task.

I use an SSL FX G384 and it get's SLAMMED even after I've tamed all the other tracks earlier downstream.

Best of luck and let's hear a sample.

[Bob Olhsson]

It's very common to over-compress stuff to the point where it can't get loud without distortion and mud.

When I got back into tracking some of my own productions a couple years ago, I stopped using compression because with 24 bits there is no longer a noise penalty for compressing after the fact. The result has been the performers getting THEIR dynamics more right because they aren't fighting a compressor or with compressed tracks. The end result has been more than enough level at the end with an L2 never doing more than just catching the peaks. In most cases these are 3 dB or less.

Using less up front seems to lead to needing less in mixing and mastering!

[djbrough]

I've found that adding a little compression/ limiting to a stem can be quite useful. For instance, I buss all my drums to a group/ stem and use light compression to "glue" the tracks together. I don't like an overcompressed sound, but light compression on the pre-processed tracks is a good thing. I may put a limiter on the guitar bus to even things out a little. I suggest that you try it and see if you like it. Rencomp is great for this type of thing BTW.

[u b k]

i second the motion to post a clip... don't be shy, we're here to help, and if you truly want to get information that helps your specific situation, you gotta let us all the way in. otherwise, we're blindfolded.

don't worry about what things sound like when you bypass processing, the only thing that matters is how things sound *with* the processing you've applied. it's either good, or it's not good.

i compress in smaller amounts in multiple stages. kick, for instance, may get 3-5db of channel compression. the drum bus gets another 1-2db of very fast limiting, and the mix comp does another 0-3db of medium or slow compression. that means that once in a while the kick is getting 10db of reduction, but the fact that three boxes are sharing the work lets it breathe, keeps it natural.

well, not natural, but it has punch and life, it moves air but stays locked in the mix.

in mastering, my mixes generally get the brickwall dancing 0-3db, with the occasional leap into 6db for the errant snare peak. my masters are not as loud as anything post-1998, i do not want them that loud, something crucial always gets lost.

fwiw, the eq curve of your master has a tremendous impact on perceived volume.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Rockman]

Thanks guys. That's very helpful info. I'm working on getting a clip posted. Thanks again..

[Methlab]

I start a mix with my drums, and make it so once the kit is rocking, there is still at least 6db of headroom in the mix.

Also, so the snare doesn't dissapear, you have to know what happens in mastering.

Basically, your snare will get quieter, your guitars will get louder. So I always mix with the snare a db or 2 louder then it should be. I also have the guitars a db or 2 lower.

Once your track gets crushed, you should still have the snare right up in the mix this way.

you don't have to have a really loud mix before mastering.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Could it be that I'm not using enough compression on individual tracks (and subgroups) ? Any thoughts?

I bet your attack times are too fast.

And your monitoring environment is probably not accurate.

[Dave Derr]

Ummm... I know Im in business making compressors but I kind of have a pet peeve.

On here and elsewhere I have heard tracks recorded with wayeeee too much compression. Its very dangerous, and I have had to mix stuff that was overcompressed, and know of many major engineers who are so distraught at the amount of compression they are getting on raw tracks these days.

The main thing is, compression really cant be undone. With EQ, a good engineer can actually get in there and fix some badly EQ'd tracks. They will boost or cut whatever it takes to get the sound. But with compression, if it was over compressed when tracking, the dynamics are just gone and even things like expanders and the Transient Designer is not going to get them back in a natural way. This is especially true if there was a fast attack used.

A few years ago, a major engineer complained about a record he mixed that the band had recorded... much of it thru a Distressor. Apparantly, the group had used NUKE on lots of tracks ... AND with very similar settings. BAD BAD IDEA! When the downbeats occured on lots of nuked tracks. this huge clamping affect occurred, with kind of blip at the start. The poor guy had to try to add some dynamics back in and undo the clamping at the downbeats. I actually think he started to dislike the Distressor after a week of dealing with this on EVERY SONG! And this was a big fan of ours. I think the only time I tracked with Nuke was on a drum room mic, that sounded bad any other way...and I still had another room mic or two that was uncompressed to add in later. DONT USE NUKE WHILE TRACKING. DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

The worst thing probably is when drums are tracked with compression. RESIST THE TEMPTATION!... unless you can parallel record them uncompressed. Its a terrible idea to compress the kick and snare right off the bat. You should be able to get a kick ass SMACKIN sound without compression on them. You can take away the attack with the wrong adjustment and bring up bleed, as well as make it really hard to gate or trigger samples effectively later on.

Try to always record your drums without compression while still getting a slammin sound. It will make you go for a better raw sound and probably make the mixdown a lot more fun... possibly even saving it for some mixdown engineers.

Tracking vocals, bass, and some acoustic instruments with a little gentle compression is a lot more acceptable... and very common. These usually are NOT transient dependant sources and dont have the bleed problems that drums have. But still, in the digital age, you can plop a plug compressor on the track the second you start to play it back, and you dont have the tape hiss problem usually.

Last week I heard someones tracks on here, of the raw drums. It was depressing because he had used lots of compression on the drums when tracking... and it was too much even for a final mix. I didnt say anything but those tracks are just splashy noise, cymbals clamping down, bleed of high hat in the snare probably, kick without a hard front edge. Really messy. Sometimes compression just hides bad tone.

Please be careful using compression when tracking, especially on drums. Remember its really impossible to regain the original dynamics, and with DAWS, you're not going to have noise (tape hiss) brought up later. If you cant resist using it on percussion tracks, try to record an uncompressed version also. It's not like we only have 8 tracks these days. I promise you will not regret it, and the mixdown engineer will probably be much happier too!

[severe]

Originally Posted by Dave Derr

Ummm... I know Im in business making compressors but I kind of have a pet peeve...

Fantastic advice, Dave.

Thanks.

[mig27]

Seconded.

[lofi]

i blame volume wars

loud "sandpaper" sound with (tick tick - kick and plish plash - snare) is the standard... blaaaaah

[nathanvacha]

Lots of good advice already here and dave's comments are pretty much universal, but I think a lot of different people are going to have different answers to this question because so much of it is subjective or just based on what style of music you're used to working with.

I think if you're having this problem, after reading everyone's posts, you should sit for a while in front of a project and try to look at it from a different angle. Try to look at a few songs differently and approach them in another way starting with the raw tracks. Try out a completely different workflow. So much of mixing is building upon what's already there... so try going back to the foundation and making a creation of an entirely different shape. Listen to the bare tracks and what's there.

Try a different perspective... ...not a different compressor.

[Rockman]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the input. I totally agree with you. (I'm the one who started this thread).

I have a distressor and use it on every recording session. I use it on guitars, bass and drum samples. However, my situation is somewhat different, in that I have a small home studio, mostly designed to do my own singer/songwriter demos. I have only 2 channels of good quality A-D input (only 2 channels of mic pres and 2 compressors). So I have to record one thing at a time... (which is fine, since I basically do it all myself, at this point... boring, I know). The point being that I have to think ahead when it comes to what I want to compress, while recording (since I don't have big mixing capabilites, other than plug-ins). I prefer to have good quality, analog compression, if possible, before going into the digital domain.

Having said that, when it comes to drums (I use samples), I always record the raw samples without compression, and then add a separate track with parallel compression. Seems to work for me. And then, I tend to group the drums, and put a bit of compression on the aux group (Rennaissance Compressor). And finally, on the 2-buss, I also insert a Renn compressor (with a 1.5:1 ratio), for the entire mix to gel... with an L2 right behind it.

The reason I started this thread was for me to learn a little from everyone here, about whether I might be doing something wrong (during the mix process), since my overall level of mixes seemed lower than most commercial releases... (keeping in mind that those commercial releases were professionally mastered). I know that this is a popular topic on this forum (especially in the mastering section). Anyway, after many months of experimenting, I think I realized, once and for all, that there's just no way I can get my mixes to sound good AND loud, ITB. I have been trying to squash them with an L2 (with up to 10 dB of gain reduction... which is insane), but it just doesn't work. My snare hits get swallowed up by the L2... in addition to the general "squashed" sound. So I backed off on the L2 (to a max gain reduction of 3 or 4 dB), and the mix sounds decent now, but then again, much lower than commercial releases.

So to sum up guys... I guess I was wondering what your master fader levels looked like (with all 2-buss inserts bypassed)... In most cases, on my mixes, the master fader level is dancing around a lot, and usually stays at an average of around -6dB, with the snare hits coming close to -0.1dB (but not clipping). In other words, there are definitely some dynamics there. I just wanted to know whether you guys had the same situation on your mixes.... or whether you compressed your sub groups more (before hitting the master fader), to the point where the master fader levels stayed more consistently louder (before hitting the 2-buss inserts). Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again for your input Dave. Love the distressor ! Which I had another one...

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Dave Derr

DONT USE NUKE WHILE TRACKING. DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

Yes!! I got some songs to mix, 5 actually, from a guy who was new to recording, and had just got a Distressor and 1176. It was really a learning experience for him as I sent him the session files back so he could see what I did.

Anyway, the snare track was so compressed (nuke on distressor) that you couldn't hear the snare anymore, it was all HH. I had to replace every snare hit by hand, literally. Soundreplacer couldn't pick up the snare as it was picking up all the HH hits too.

Rough mix job it was for sure. I could never get the songs to glue, neither could the mastering engineer.

You guys new to recording, take it easy.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Rockman

So to sum up guys... I guess I was wondering what your master fader levels looked like (with all 2-buss inserts bypassed)

If you in the mix stage, this is irrelevent, if your mixing with a comp on the 2buss. I think your overthinking things. Just listen to the mix, and do what sounds right. Who cares what the meters are telling you (unless they are clipping...haha)

[chymer]

Ive found that slower attach times 25-30ms let the snare through and help it punch.
I never use the L2 anymore, this seriously kills the snare and punch of a track.
Try the T-Racks Clipper and the URS 1980 (based on SSL). You will love what it does.
I put the URS 1980 then the clipper and its all I need for a track with decent level before mastering.
Try to avoid any limiting on the master bus, you dont need it at all, let the matering engineer do it, he must be good of course, Ive had bad mastering engineers make my tracks loud but lacking punch. Really, anyone can make a track loud with the software out there.

Can i ask, why you want your track so loud? Its been said before, but your track should sound loud by way of its dynamics and tone, not the levels on you meter.

So i havent ignored the original question. Id say for drums get the whole kit sounding really punchy and balanced with individual compressors EQ on the kit and then send it to 3 separate buses. bus1 dry with no compression, bus 2 with the URS 1980 hitting it hard with attack at 20-25ms so the snare snaps and the kick clicks away and the cymbals are not splashing.Bus 3 using a compressor like a fairchild absolutely slamming with fast attack so it pumps and the room really comes out.
Then send all these buses to a 4th bus and blend them to taste starting with the dry signal, make sure delay compensation is on too. you can put a pultech type plugin on the final bus to add some fattness.

Make 3 duplicates of the bass track and send these to 1 bus. Keep one track pretty flat and then limit the crap out of one and then fuzz/distrort the 3rd. Send them all to the bus and blend to taste starting with the dry signal. you can also compress the final bus or limit. This helps keep the bass solid, HP as well 30-40 whatever.
Send guitars to a bus and compress and eq.

I always keep the main lead vocal on its own fader and group backings and eq compress them.

I hope this helps a bit.

Just remember that the snare is a good indication of your overheads (level overheads, not drum). It needs to drive through and stay "alive" right to the outout of the 2bus, if you feel it getting lost then either turn it up if you have headroom, or turn the music down, or adjust your attack times on the drums or the 2bus compressor. Remember the L2 is a limiter and it has no attack time, it just squares off any transients the more you add reduction.

pop/rock mixes need to sound loud at lower volumes, they dont actually have to be LOUD!Intillegent compression/EQ is the key (Im still learning this and will probably never master it)
Listen to the new green day record at low volumes, it still sound pretty frikin loud to me.
chymer

[Rockman]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm still learning about all this (although, I've been recording for many years). There's always something new to learn.

Chymer, it's interesting that you mentioned the last Green Day record. That's actually a record that I think sounds great... AND quite loud. It is a very loud record (in terms of level) ... but then again, it sounds about as loud as most current commercial releases.

In answer to the question "Why do I want to be loud?"... well, to tell you the truth, I'm not too concerned about being the loudest. I couldn't care less about that. It's more a question of being in the ballpark, so that if someone on their ipod listens to the latest Green Day song (for example)... and then immediately after that, listens to my song (although that's not likely to happen.. haha)... I don't want the guy to go "what the ... ???? and have to drastically crank his ipod volume... only to go deaf when the NEXT song after mine is much louder again). It's annoying to the listener... whether we like it or not. That's pretty much all it is... in my humble opinion. But I digress...

Thanks for your input guys. All helpful tips... and I will try some of them.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Rockman

It's more a question of being in the ballpark, so that if someone on their ipod listens to the latest Green Day song (for example)... and then immediately after that, listens to my song (although that's not likely to happen.. haha)... I don't want the guy to go "what the ... ???? and have to drastically crank his ipod volume... only to go deaf when the NEXT song after mine is much louder again).

or it could work the other way around... they're grooving to your latest track, punchy and full of life, then the green day song comes on and sounds pancaked and hyped and rips into their ears, and they begin to wake up to the notion that loud music is simply annoying, with no apparent payoff.

a man's gotta have a dream.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by chymer

Ive found that slower attach times 25-30ms let the snare through and help it punch.

chymer

Funny, I consider that fast.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Dave Derr

Ummm... I know Im in business making compressors but I kind of have a pet peeve.

On here and elsewhere I have heard tracks recorded with wayeeee too much compression. Its very dangerous, and I have had to mix stuff that was overcompressed, and know of many major engineers who are so distraught at the amount of compression they are getting on raw tracks these days.

The main thing is, compression really cant be undone. With EQ, a good engineer can actually get in there and fix some badly EQ'd tracks. They will boost or cut whatever it takes to get the sound. But with compression, if it was over compressed when tracking, the dynamics are just gone and even things like expanders and the Transient Designer is not going to get them back in a natural way. This is especially true if there was a fast attack used.

I remember that story about the album tracked with the same settings. I think he had to go for a faster attack to hide the clamping.

Basically I disagree with a lot of what you said unless my way of expressing it is just semantics. I rarely hear overcomrpession, just over limiting (by my definition). People think compression makes things louder, but it's peak limiting that does so. As a result, they go for fast attack times and they get their volum and they exciting effect of the body of the sound bing brought up, so you hear the boom off the kick drum and that's exciting and it disctracts you from noticing that you've removed the attack. (This is why I think parallel comrpession is bad - it allows you to keep making the same fundamental error, but the undecompressed signal saves you from disaster. You never actually make the signal punchier becuase the attac is never increased.)

So, too much peak limiting as opposed to comrpession. Have you ever head something over comrpessed with a Distressor that's had it's attack time set to 10?

As far as tracking, I agree that mistakes can't be undone, but there are cetain mistakes you might not be able to hear without the compression - like the bleed that you're going to bring up later in mixing that you might fix with mic choice or positioning if you hear it during tracking. Or, you can show the drummer how limited room mics affect his cymbal/drum balance and show him how to adjust (of chours if he suck, he sucks). Otherwise, you're going to have a surprise when you can't limit the room mics in the mix because of the cymbals and you can't get the Bonham sound you promised the band because you recorded without hearing how poorly balanced the kit was during tracking.

So, if what you're rally saying is don't track with comrpession if you don't know how to do it right, I'd agree. But, there's a ton to be gained when tracking with as close to finished sounds as possible.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Dave Derr

Ummm... I know Im in business making compressors but I kind of have a pet peeve.

On here and elsewhere I have heard tracks recorded with wayeeee too much compression. Its very dangerous, and I have had to mix stuff that was overcompressed, and know of many major engineers who are so distraught at the amount of compression they are getting on raw tracks these days.

The main thing is, compression really cant be undone. With EQ, a good engineer can actually get in there and fix some badly EQ'd tracks. They will boost or cut whatever it takes to get the sound. But with compression, if it was over compressed when tracking, the dynamics are just gone and even things like expanders and the Transient Designer is not going to get them back in a natural way. This is especially true if there was a fast attack used.

A few years ago, a major engineer complained about a record he mixed that the band had recorded... much of it thru a Distressor. Apparantly, the group had used NUKE on lots of tracks ... AND with very similar settings. BAD BAD IDEA! When the downbeats occured on lots of nuked tracks. this huge clamping affect occurred, with kind of blip at the start. The poor guy had to try to add some dynamics back in and undo the clamping at the downbeats. I actually think he started to dislike the Distressor after a week of dealing with this on EVERY SONG! And this was a big fan of ours. I think the only time I tracked with Nuke was on a drum room mic, that sounded bad any other way...and I still had another room mic or two that was uncompressed to add in later. DONT USE NUKE WHILE TRACKING. DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

The worst thing probably is when drums are tracked with compression. RESIST THE TEMPTATION!... unless you can parallel record them uncompressed. Its a terrible idea to compress the kick and snare right off the bat. You should be able to get a kick ass SMACKIN sound without compression on them. You can take away the attack with the wrong adjustment and bring up bleed, as well as make it really hard to gate or trigger samples effectively later on.

Try to always record your drums without compression while still getting a slammin sound. It will make you go for a better raw sound and probably make the mixdown a lot more fun... possibly even saving it for some mixdown engineers.

Tracking vocals, bass, and some acoustic instruments with a little gentle compression is a lot more acceptable... and very common. These usually are NOT transient dependant sources and dont have the bleed problems that drums have. But still, in the digital age, you can plop a plug compressor on the track the second you start to play it back, and you dont have the tape hiss problem usually.

Last week I heard someones tracks on here, of the raw drums. It was depressing because he had used lots of compression on the drums when tracking... and it was too much even for a final mix. I didnt say anything but those tracks are just splashy noise, cymbals clamping down, bleed of high hat in the snare probably, kick without a hard front edge. Really messy. Sometimes compression just hides bad tone.

Please be careful using compression when tracking, especially on drums. Remember its really impossible to regain the original dynamics, and with DAWS, you're not going to have noise (tape hiss) brought up later. If you cant resist using it on percussion tracks, try to record an uncompressed version also. It's not like we only have 8 tracks these days. I promise you will not regret it, and the mixdown engineer will probably be much happier too!

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by djui5

Automation is your friend.

Yes, it is!

[Alexi]

Originally Posted by chymer

Ive found that slower attach times 25-30ms let the snare through and help it punch.
I never use the L2 anymore, this seriously kills the snare and punch of a track.
Try the T-Racks Clipper and the URS 1980 (based on SSL). You will love what it does.
I put the URS 1980 then the clipper and its all I need for a track with decent level before mastering.
Try to avoid any limiting on the master bus, you dont need it at all, let the matering engineer do it, he must be good of course, Ive had bad mastering engineers make my tracks loud but lacking punch. Really, anyone can make a track loud with the software out there.

Can i ask, why you want your track so loud? Its been said before, but your track should sound loud by way of its dynamics and tone, not the levels on you meter.

So i havent ignored the original question. Id say for drums get the whole kit sounding really punchy and balanced with individual compressors EQ on the kit and then send it to 3 separate buses. bus1 dry with no compression, bus 2 with the URS 1980 hitting it hard with attack at 20-25ms so the snare snaps and the kick clicks away and the cymbals are not splashing.Bus 3 using a compressor like a fairchild absolutely slamming with fast attack so it pumps and the room really comes out.
Then send all these buses to a 4th bus and blend them to taste starting with the dry signal, make sure delay compensation is on too. you can put a pultech type plugin on the final bus to add some fattness.

Make 3 duplicates of the bass track and send these to 1 bus. Keep one track pretty flat and then limit the crap out of one and then fuzz/distrort the 3rd. Send them all to the bus and blend to taste starting with the dry signal. you can also compress the final bus or limit. This helps keep the bass solid, HP as well 30-40 whatever.
Send guitars to a bus and compress and eq.

I always keep the main lead vocal on its own fader and group backings and eq compress them.

I hope this helps a bit.

Just remember that the snare is a good indication of your overheads (level overheads, not drum). It needs to drive through and stay "alive" right to the outout of the 2bus, if you feel it getting lost then either turn it up if you have headroom, or turn the music down, or adjust your attack times on the drums or the 2bus compressor. Remember the L2 is a limiter and it has no attack time, it just squares off any transients the more you add reduction.

pop/rock mixes need to sound loud at lower volumes, they dont actually have to be LOUD!Intillegent compression/EQ is the key (Im still learning this and will probably never master it)
Listen to the new green day record at low volumes, it still sound pretty frikin loud to me.
chymer

hey chimer,


great post, i have one question over here...........how do you deal with sample replaced drums (or blended samples)......are those going thru the busses too or to you blend them in seperately?



cheers


Alex