Reverse Compression!?

[ultima]

Im having load of fun these days with reverse compression...

that is ... i reverse the source and run through a compressor, simple ,different and obvious.

Hard to judge what you are doing though but nice for fx or even super smooth vocal compression.

There should be a plug that reverses audio so i could put one at the start of the chain and another at the end.

[Fletcher]

Are you doing that in the analog domain? I've been looking for something that records backwards in the digital domain for quite a while now... the folks at iZ tell me that it's about 6th on their list of shit to do... but something tells me I'm going to need it sooner than that.

[BattleAngel]

Don't most budget audio programs have this function? I reverse crap all the time when I'm putzing around in Cool Edit when I'm away from my rig. Are we talking about something else?

[Steve Smith]

Originally posted by Fletcher
Are you doing that in the analog domain? I've been looking for something that records backwards in the digital domain for quite a while now... the folks at iZ tell me that it's about 6th on their list of shit to do... but something tells me I'm going to need it sooner than that.

You could allways pay them to devolop it.

[ultima]

Im doing it digitally and its pretty much hit and miss but ive had some interesting results by tweaking the settings,reversing the source and after a little attack and release tweaking then i process and cross my fingers.

Reverse processing is underestimated as it sort of doubles up on the functions on every unit.

id like to be able to do a "virtual reverse" before sending the source in to a delay or any processor for that matter.
The delay bit could be a bitch to program as the tail would actually start before that audio but , yeah!?

Incredibly useful if someone could make a plug like that.

[ultima]

Battle angel.....

I would like to do it in realtime

that is without actually reversing anything.

[jbuntz]

That might be hard to do realtime because of latency issues required for the "release" time.

[Messiah]

FWIW, this is a trick that was used all the time on Jimmy Page's guitar tracks on all the Zep stuff...
As was said, it can be paricularly effective on vocals.

[Kenny Gioia]

OK, I know I'm done.

Is this what we're talking about?

Take Vocal Track.
Reverse it.
Apply a large amount of compression.
Reverse it again (back to forward)

Am I right?

If I am, this would be a tough thing to tweak.

Would you add this signal to the original signal or would it stand on it's own?

Also, would a subtle amount of compression do much or do ya need to Nuke it?

Thanks

[ultima]

Yeah , produceher ..thats the idea and yes its hard to tweak and thats why id like a plugin that simply reverses the audio and you could put it at the start and end of your chain.

Plugin Chain...

*Reverser*
Compressor
*Reverser*

that way you would never have to listen to the reversed sound but could process it reversed..

Doesnt have to be used for anything radical it would just change the way the ATT&REL would behave..

Again , very simple but great possibilites.

[Bob Olhsson]

Recording in reverse is actually extremely easy to do in Pro Tools as is half-speed recording and even, if you have the appropriate hardware, vari speed recording.

[BattleAngel]

Ultima,

Was it you who was working with an Icelandic band in a house and doing a lot with natural reverb/echo? If so- how did that project turn out? I'd love to hear it. I think I remember downloading some awesome electronic music from you before too.

[kosi]

Hi Bob,
how do you do varispeed in PT ? SMPTE Slave Driver or something like this?

very interesting, kosi

btw. to put a delay on a reversed track can be funny too, so you have real pre-delays, when you turn it around.

[Bob Olhsson]

The slave driver works although I use a Sony 7030 TC DAT machine as my synchronizer and vari-speed digital clock. You could also lock to a DA-88.

[ultima]

Yeah BAngel that was me...

That project turned out great actually!

Although i realised that i got a bit carried away with the reverbs as i had spent some much time recording all of it...eh

I´ll ask the band if i can post some of their material (they are still looking for a deal so that might be touchy but id love for you guys to hear that )

thanks for your comments on my music..appreciated!

[madrigal]

What a great idea! I've been doing reverse recording and mucking around with reverse reverb for ages now (a really cool sound, especially with long reverbs) but reverse compression never even occurred to me.

Ultima, I've found reverse delays to be great, especially with analog delays - you get this great effect where the sound starts off faint and muddy, and then builds in clarity and volume.

As you say, it would be great to do it in semi-realtime without reversing anything...

[kosi]

My Nanosync has only fixed + or - 4% samplerate, as I recognized just in this moment ! Have to check, how it works.
I have an old SMPTE Slave driver lying around anywhere, but I guess, I need a SMPTE source, which I could vary. Mmmmh, there must be a way

Thanks, kosi

[Bob Olhsson]

You don't need time code but the most common gear that will generate an off-speed sample rate are time code synchronizers. Some even do it by semitones.

[kosi]

Yeppa ! very good, I'll look around for one.

Thanks, Bob

[jbuntz]

I've also tried backwards auto tuning. I've also tried to tune both backwards and forwards only slightly each time to reduce the audible "catching" that it does. It worked okay but graphical mode works better.

[MIKEHARRIS]

OMNIPRESSOR....by Eventide
some strange compression effects were available in the BSS DPR502..with an barrier/jumper arrangement

[ultima]

Yeah the Omnipressor worked on a Dynamic reversal concept of some sorts , havent heard one though.?

[jbuntz]

A lookahead compressor has a vaguely similar effect to reverse compression.

[muddy]

i'm still tryin' to wrap my head around the concept, & what specifically it accomplishes. but it occurred to me, why wouldn't you simply take the reversed audio, place it on it's own track, bus it to a compressor, & only mix in the effect? sounds a whole lot simpler...


ml

[ultima]

jbuntz...yep, but then you could also use a lookahead compressor on reversed material and see what happens.

Muddy...the idea is to process the audio reversed without you hearing it reversed.

[DanV]

okay folks,

relofter will do what you need, it will just be a bit of a pain.

http://www.smartelectronix.com/~andr...av=9&p=5&kat=0

it is still beta so there is a weird tempo sync function for the buffer size, they also don't tell you how big the buffer is in milliseconds, you basically have to experiment with that,

arm it for record and playback, and set up an automation function that toggles the playback direction back and forth between each buffer flush, this will give you constant reverse,

then at the end of the backwords chain you will need to basically put the same relofter plug on, synched the same way, but somehow with an opposite play toggle direction,,, this will give you constant forward of the once backwords signal.

then on your dry tracks, you are going to need to put something like analogX's sample slide in the dry chain so that all non backwords material is delayed to the size of the buffers, thus synching the material and making things seem "realtime"

it is really tricky atm, but possible.

I suggest anyone who is truly interested in an easier "realtime" alternative to contact Andreas@Smartelectronix.com and let him know what it is you need. He is the master of reverse, it is his specialty, he was actually once contacted by the folks responsible for the oberheim echoplex digital and asked to make a software version.

On a side note,
would this also do a similar thing?
Sending a split of the signal to be "reverse compressed" to a bus (that has no real output into your master mix )then run it through somesort of fade in gate to give it a backwords attack sound, then use this signal as the source on a sidechain compression of the actual signal??

still a pain in the arse,,

Sometimes "realtime" just aint worth it!

cheers!

[e-cue]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Recording in reverse is actually extremely easy to do in Pro Tools as is half-speed recording and even, if you have the appropriate hardware, vari speed recording.

Recording at half speed is as easy as holding down shift and hitting space bar (after hitting the record button). Of course, it will sound like a chipmuck when played at normal speed so get a pitchshifter ready.

How do record in reverse in protools? I always thought "Hey, if you can scrub backwards, why can't you play backwards"...

[Bob Olhsson]

You duplicate playlists, consolidate each track and then reverse all your tracks in AudioSuite. Then reverse the new recording and switch back to the original playlists.

Doesn't take that much longer on a modern computer than flipping a roll of 2" and reassigning the board.

[muddy]

Originally posted by ultima
Muddy...the idea is to process the audio reversed without you hearing it reversed.

i understand the process; that's easy. i'm not sure i understand what effect it produces.


ml

[Berolzheimer]

I've done this...The idea is that in the long run, it's like the compressor knew what was coming, and lowers the gain before the attack comes. the release time becomes your attack time, but it happens before the signal crosses the threshold. i.e., If you have a 60 ms release time, when reversed the signal ducks down 60ms before the signal crosses the threshold.

I've always thought of it as the clairvoyant compressor effect.