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scoring4films
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#1
20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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Jaw Dropping Image of Record Technology (electron microscopy)

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#2
20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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That's crazy looking!
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20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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the phonograph always struck me as such a Flintstones technology that it was remarkable that it worked at all.

The original Edison machine had a clockwork motor and no speakers or amplification and used rather common materials.

It almost could have been invented by Leonardo DaVinci or even Archimedes.
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20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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You could explain it to me until the end of time, but I still wouldn't understand how that can sound like a saxophone, or a drum or a singer or anything.
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#5
20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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Same here. That is bizarre to look at and consider.

I suppose in theory, you could enlarge that to an incredible degree. Like, dragging a massive "needle" through the Grand Canyon or something. I wonder what that would sound like.

I also wonder if the fidelity on a record the size of, say, a stadium, would have greater fidelity or sound quality? It would seem you could get ever finer resolution. Unless I am missing something very elementary. Which is also very likely.

Very odd to look at.
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20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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I've always thought that vinyl, especially STEREO vinyl was a miracle in action.
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20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
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Originally Posted by PrettyGone View Post
You could explain it to me until the end of time, but I still wouldn't understand how that can sound like a saxophone, or a drum or a singer or anything.
if you have ever heard an original gramophone in person, you know how scratchy and tinny it sounds. How far away from the actual sound of the instrument, never mind from modern recordings.

yet when it was new, Edison would "tour" with the gramophone and go behind a screen with a trombonist and play the cylinder with the recording of the trombone and then the real trombone back and forth and the audiences were amazed.

As silly as it seems to our sophisticated ears, they thought they could not tell which was which! I would say I could tell today even with the finest recording and speakers in the world vs a real trombone, but at the time, they were not tuned into the differences, just blown away by the similarities.

That records sound as good as they do is the result of decades of improvements, technological advances and of course tweaking.



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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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#9
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by PrettyGone View Post
You could explain it to me until the end of time, but I still wouldn't understand how that can sound like a saxophone, or a drum or a singer or anything.
Yeah, pretty much. There are a lot of things where I go all ICP, and a record player is one of these things.
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#10
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by joeq View Post
... and the audiences were amazed.

As silly as it seems to our sophisticated ears...
You know... one thing you may not be considering? Maybe the gramophones were accurately reproducing the sounds of the day, maybe everything had this shrill tinny squawk to it, maybe all of life was one long Marx Brothers movie... it's not the kind of thing we could test for now, but it's an interesting theory...
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#11
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by joeq View Post
the phonograph always struck me as such a Flintstones technology that it was remarkable that it worked at all.

The original Edison machine had a clockwork motor and no speakers or amplification and used rather common materials.

It almost could have been invented by Leonardo DaVinci or even Archimedes.
True. Most inventions happen pretty much as soon as they're possible. But Edison's first phonograph required nothing that hadn't existed for hundreds of years. We could have had recordings of Bach playing his compositions!
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#12
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Brilliant!

Sent from my C5155
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
I suppose in theory, you could enlarge that to an incredible degree. Like, dragging a massive "needle" through the Grand Canyon or something. I wonder what that would sound like.
A bit bass heavy, perhaps? That said, one should, theoretically, be able to digitally translate the structure of the Grand Canyon to the scale of a 33&1/3 groove... and I, too, would love to hear what that sounds like.
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#14
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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This Grand Canyon thing is stuck in my mind now. With satellite images
Someone could really do this.

And with 3d printing, make a real album.

All of which is beyond my knowledge. Yes, I am one of those people who
Think up work for others to actually do.
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
I also wonder if the fidelity on a record the size of, say, a stadium, would have greater fidelity or sound quality? It would seem you could get ever finer resolution.
Actually, this is true, the outer grooves of the record are usually higher fidelity than the ones near the smaller center of the disc, IIRC. And records with fewer songs on them can have more space for the grooves, up to a point, and are higher fidelity because of this.
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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It's possible to put road markings in a sequence so that when your car tyre runs over it, it creates a sound. It's possible to modulate the pattern of that sequence so that your tyres can talk to you, perhaps playback music if you wanted.

In countless clay pots made on potter's wheels there are very probably recordings of sounds from that time ... all waiting to be played back with a laser and a bit of software ...
#17
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Vinyl records are easy to explain.

We are talking about sound WAVES. The waves are cut into the vinyl and amplified for listening later. What's a miracle to me is how the hell do you take a series of ones and zeros and turn it into anything like high fidelity music. Now that's a miracle.

Anthony
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Vinyl records are easy to explain.

We are talking about sound WAVES. The waves are cut into the vinyl and amplified for listening later. What's a miracle to me is how the hell do you take a series of ones and zeros and turn it into anything like high fidelity music. Now that's a miracle.

Anthony
Gotta say I find the LP more amazing.
On a CD a laser is reading pits and lands representing either 1 or 0 and a computer is analyzing the data.
In an LP a stylus is tracking incredibly complex waveforms that involve high frequencies superimposed on low frequencies in real time. In stereo!
The precise, high speed dance that stylus has to do has always amazed me.
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#19
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
This Grand Canyon thing is stuck in my mind now. With satellite images
Someone could really do this.

And with 3d printing, make a real album.

All of which is beyond my knowledge. Yes, I am one of those people who
Think up work for others to actually do.
Yup. I'm thinking about this too. Seems like a good film premise... probably for a futuristic comedy or sumthin. Or a JJ Abrams debacle.

THey realize the grand canyon is actually some kind of coded message left behind by aliens, and so they have to build a giant needle to drag through the chasm, and the resulting noise actually plays some kind of bizarre message in an alien tongue. OMG -- It's "Be Bop a Lula" sung in Venutian!!!

Don't joke. I'm pitching this. If it becomes a blockbuster, I'll cut this forum in for its requisite share....
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#20
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
the phonograph always struck me as such a Flintstones technology that it was remarkable that it worked at all.

The original Edison machine had a clockwork motor and no speakers or amplification and used rather common materials.

It almost could have been invented by Leonardo DaVinci or even Archimedes.
And treble that for stereo. (pun layering acknowledged)


When I read about how the new stereo disks worked in Popular Science when I was 4th grade, it was a real mind twister, at first. The diagram of the single needle and two coils wigged me out. But, you know, it was a little easier than Nyquist-Shannon.


Didn't DaVinci draw a device for capturing sound vibrations and drawing them? Seems like I remember something like that...

Of course, almost more amazingly, the phonograph was 'invented' without anyone discovering it for thousands of years -- wheeled pottery has been found that inadvertantly captured the sounds going on when it was being formed because vibrations were transmitted into grooves created by a shaping tool.
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
It's possible to put road markings in a sequence so that when your car tyre runs over it, it creates a sound. It's possible to modulate the pattern of that sequence so that your tyres can talk to you, perhaps playback music if you wanted.
...
singing roads...already been done.


SINGING ROADS - TAKE A MUSICAL TRIP IN JAPAN

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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by scoring4films View Post
All the highways in the area where I live have "rumble strips" just inside the shoulder -- which are just ripples cut into the road surface, that rumble as soon as your car drifts into the shoulder and a wheel moves over the strip. I think their main purpose is to keep drivers from falling asleep and ending up in the ditch.

Hilarious to think you might be able to carve the road surface into a waveform to make it sing. Even if you could just create a simple tune with sine waves, with gaps to create rhythms. Could be a great tourist attraction! Drive the interstate and hear a ring tone version of Willie Nelson's On The Road Again rumble up through the floor of you car!
[EDIT: yo, blue, look the F up and don't be so self-absorbed, or cryin' out loud. --yourself] One of the Japanese car makers (I think) did just that as a promotional effort. There's a video kicking around somewhere. It plays some bit of music as the car goes down the road.

And, while it's not quite the same, the notion of the music laid out geographically brings to mind this 'forest marimba,' which I just came across:

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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Sweet!



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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Figures.

The Japanese are light years ahead of the rest of humanity when it comes to "eclectic" inventions and fads.

Seriously, where do they even THINK of some of the stuff that flows through their culture? Almost like Japan, as a whole, grows to about age 13 and stays there permanently, in terms of cultural things. Stuff my son would have loved at that same age. I mean that with no disrespect. The Japanese people are also some of the smartest, most innovative people. But they can be downright odd, too.
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
Figures.

The Japanese are light years ahead of the rest of humanity when it comes to "eclectic" inventions and fads.

Seriously, where do they even THINK of some of the stuff that flows through their culture? Almost like Japan, as a whole, grows to about age 13 and stays there permanently, in terms of cultural things. Stuff my son would have loved at that same age. I mean that with no disrespect. The Japanese people are also some of the smartest, most innovative people. But they can be downright odd, too.


I get you.

My first GF (of ~3 years or so) was (well is, though long ago wised up on the GF front and dumped my haulie [her mom was from Hawaii] backside) 'Sansei' (third generation Japanese-American) and we used to watch a lot of Japanese movies together. For a while I thought I had some, small understanding of Japanese culture.

Ha!

I now realize that I will never understand Japanese culture. I know a little bit about it, maybe. (But that, in this case, is very much a 'dangerous' thing.)

But understand? No way. It becomes less comprehensible to me, the more I learn about it.
#26
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by GearAndGuitars View Post
I've always thought that vinyl, especially STEREO vinyl was a miracle in action.
Wow. I never thought about it.
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
Gotta say I find the LP more amazing.
On a CD a laser is reading pits and lands representing either 1 or 0 and a computer is analyzing the data.
In an LP a stylus is tracking incredibly complex waveforms that involve high frequencies superimposed on low frequencies in real time. In stereo!
The precise, high speed dance that stylus has to do has always amazed me.
Stylus is tracking the groove, but laser has to somehow stay on the optical "groove". Than think about the Delta-Sigma converters. I think that analog technology amazes us, because most of us can unerstand how does it work, but on the other hand, most people can't even imagine what actually happens in digital machines.

Anyway AFAIK the tags in the first picture saying "Waves of left channel" and "Waves of right channel" are wrong, because on the vinyl, the signal is encoded in M/S in lateral an vertical directions.
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#28
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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But understand? No way. It becomes less comprehensible to me, the more I learn about it.
Sometimes I get my hands on some really whacky Japanese stuff and I'll show it to a good friend of mine, Arei from Tokyo. I'll ask him to either explain it to me or translate the writing so I have some idea what it's about and he's actually said to me sometimes, "This makes no sense." or "I can't translate it because the writing is nonsense..."

That's when I realized that Japanese stuff can be so WTF that sometimes it doesn't even make sense to Japanese people....

That's pretty wild...

Regards,
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#29
21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
You know... one thing you may not be considering? Maybe the gramophones were accurately reproducing the sounds of the day, maybe everything had this shrill tinny squawk to it, maybe all of life was one long Marx Brothers movie...
You sound like me one time messing with a young kid who asked me why old time photos are black and white and I convinced him that the world used to be in black and white and sometime in the 60s the world spontaneously burst into color and that scientists have been studying this for decades and still can't explain it.

His little mind was blown and I figured his parents would have a heck of a time convincing him otherwise...


Regards,
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21st March 2013
Old 21st March 2013
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To anyone who actually lived through the 60's it probably DID seem like the world exploded into color.
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