60's (pre-CBS) Champ vs 70's Champ

[James Guitar]

Hi:
I have an opportunity to purchase either a pre-CBS 1965 Fender Champ or a 70's Champ but i don't really know the difference between the two. anybody have any good links that differentiate between them or just know anything different between the two?
thanks,
-J

[infiniteposse]

Both are great and the older one is worth more and more collectable. If the price is right, get the older one. If you just need something for recording and the 70's one is significantly cheaper, grab it.

Circuit-wise, I don't think there's much, if any, differences and if there are, it's nothing your amp tech couldn't fix up at the same time you get it recapped, which I'd recommend if it's not already been done. Also look into the 3-prong cable upgrade and also a weber sig-8 speaker if you need something else for those duties.

I use a Silverface Champ (70's with all of the changes mentioned above) and it's the buisness. Probably the most useful amp in my collection for recording...

For rediculous amounts of info, go here: http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.htm...-08-2009:32:17 and do some searching.

Good luck!

[MooWahmBah]

www.*****.com
Do a search for the most thorough champ info I`ve come across . Seems Fender changed tranny suppliers at some point and the earlier champs had pine cabs . The difference in wood is arguable for such a small cab . The circuit however is the same .
I LOVE the tremelo on the Vibro Champ and would try to find a VC .
I have the Weber alnico vintage series speaker and I prefer it to the signature series mentioned above ...sweeter .
It drives a 3.2 ohm load so a 4 ohm cab with 2 12`s is amazing with the champ as an option
Class A with a single 6V6 makes this amp SO expressive for clean and raunch

[Fletcher]

From what I have found there isn't a damn bit of difference between pretty much any of the "Pre-CBS" / "Post-CBS" Champs. It was the one amp that didn't change during that period [or so I've found, YMMV]. I will also mention that I lost interest in damn near all things Fender in the late 70's so I'll not comment on what happened in their world in the last 25+ years... but say prior to like '78 the Champ's didn't vary as much in design anomolies as they did from just plain old "unit to unit" variances. Again... YMMV. I try not to get religious about guitar amp stuff... but some folk do.

[James Guitar]

that's all great information. thanks, guys. this is why i love this forum! go gearslutz...
-J

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by James Guitar

that's all great information. thanks, guys. this is why i love this forum! go gearslutz...
-J

Yeah, I find this forum to be more informative re: guitar/amp/drum/keyboard questions than any forum dedicated to same.

[Philo]

Even though the circuit didn't change, my Silverface Vibrochamp has fairly sloppy wiring and did have caps on the output circuitry to eliminate potential parasitic oscillation (which is a consequence of the sloppy wiring). Fortunately, it was an easy fix to neaten up the wiring and remove the caps.

But the bottom line youve heard is right: both Silverface and Blackface are great recording amps. Philo

[ALL*MYTEE]

Hi,

From what I've heard the smaller Fenders didn't go through the circuit changes that the bigger ones did--and certainly not as soon after the cosmetics changed. If what I've seen is right, the late 60s Deluxes and smaller (including the Champ) were similar if not the same. I usually go blackface but don't underestimate the power of cosmetics. The blackface is probably also a better investment. How original each is (esp. speaker) also goes a long way to what they're worth. If you have a chance to play them, do it that way. As one of the local techs here says: keep whatever makes you sound better. If you check on my web page under "links" I have some links to the Fender Field Guide (which details the circuits, speakers, etc) and a great article in 20th Century Guitar about dating Fender amps.

Best,

Eben

[1979]

I think if you were to compare the guts of an early 65' and like a 78' you may find differences in the types of caps used and possiby different transformers. You never know. Silverface amps are also noted for poor wire layout inside the chassis. I bought my silverface vibro-champ from a knowledgeable amateur builder who re-organized the wiring properly. Now the amp is very quiet with all the knobs dimed.

You may want to consult the shematic for the 'fender bronco' (not the new one). It was essentially a Vibro-champ, but the shematic will show different volatges and a few different resitance values. If the champ was the aa764 circuit , I believe the bronco was ab764 and only available for a short time as a Fender starter kit that included a guitar also called a 'bronco'.

Nonetheless The champ/vibro champs kick ass, I run my champ into a 4 ohm bassman cab with one webervst alnico bluedog and one 12a150. I also use a 5v4 rectifier sometimes for different attack. The Vibro champ was the best $325 cad I ever spent.

Cheers.