The few and the proud...

[thethrillfactor]

...that continue to hold out.


Online Music Holdouts Give in to ITunes
Metallica's James Hetfield performs with the band during at a party for the film "The Darwin Awards" at the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah, in this Jan. CAROLYN KASTER
By BRIAN CHARLTON (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
August 19, 2006 2:13 PM EDT

DETROIT - Bob Seger turned the page, and Metallica finally found justice for online fans. Now, only a few remaining big-name musical acts refuse to make their songs available on Apple Computer's popular iTunes Music Store.

Analysts say the online holdouts - including the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Garth Brooks, Radiohead and Kid Rock - probably can't avoid iTunes forever as fans flock to the Internet to buy music.

But the artists argue online distribution leaves them with too small a profit. And, they say, iTunes wrecks the artistic integrity of an album by allowing songs to be purchased by the track for 99 cents. Some bands, such as AC/DC have released albums on other, more flexible sites, but not iTunes.

"We've always thought certain artists put out albums that aren't meant to be compilations with 50 other artists," said Ed "Punch" Andrews, manager for both Seger and Kid Rock. "We're hoping at some point albums become important again like they were in the past 30 years."

There are other reasons bands avoid cyberspace. In some cases, various parties that own or control older music catalogs can't agree to a distribution contract. Others have avoided the Internet altogether out of piracy concerns. (Most online stores, however, use rights-management technology to protect against unauthorized distribution.)

Since record companies have realized the popularity of iTunes and other sites, many reworked contracts to give artists less money per download. Andrews said while record companies once offered artists about 30 cents for each song sold, now musicians are earning less than a dime.

Contractual issues, the fight to save full-length albums and worries about piracy have kept both Seger and Kid Rock from distributing their works online, Andrews said. Seger, however, did allow online stores to sell his new single "Wait For Me," from his upcoming September release - his first studio album in 11 years.

Seger, the legendary rocker from Michigan who entered the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2004, is considering releasing his classic 1976 album "Night Moves," but wants to make it so it only can be downloaded as an album, Andrews said.

"It's amazing how many people go there," Andrews said of iTunes. "We're hoping albums work there." Andrews said he wasn't sure if Apple eventually would allow the album to be kept intact.

An Apple spokesman declined comment.

But bands can no longer risk losing out on sales and marketing generated from the digital formats, especially on iTunes, said Phil Leigh, an analyst with Inside Digital Media, a market research firm. With CD sales continuing to drop, it's only a matter of time until the last holdouts give up, he said.

"Any artist that doesn't is going to be left at the station," Leigh said. "It's not a secret that growth in the CD market is as dead as General Custer."

The popularity of iPods already has made Apple's iTunes the dominant way of legally downloading music. The three-year-old store has already sold more than a billion songs.

Because songs downloaded at Microsoft Corp.'s MSN Music, Napster and other sites won't work on Apple's 58 million iPods, iTunes holds about 70 percent of the legal downloading market.

Metallica, who helped lead the charge to shut down the old Napster in 2000, finally gave in late last month and released their songs on iTunes, including several unreleased live tracks.

"Over the last year or so, we have seen an ever-growing number of Metallica fans using online sites such as iTunes to get their music. ... Fire up your iTunes, your iPods and whatever else you've got, like we do, and enjoy iMetallica," the band wrote on its Web site.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers joined iTunes in April with the launch of "Stadium Arcadium," their first album in three years. The band presold tickets for its tour and gave bonus content to fans who preordered the album. This month, Bob Dylan also used the site to presell concert tickets.

Record labels say they're working with their bands to embrace all possible formats, including online music stores.

"It's undeniably clear that fans go online to keep up with artists," said Jeanne Meyer, spokeswoman for EMI North America, which has represented the Rolling Stones and Beastie Boys among other bands as they made successful leaps online. "So it follows that there is a fairly big demand for buying music legitimately online."

The growth of online distribution should help stabilize the industry, particularly as more devices such as cell phones are able to play songs bought online, said Russ Crupnick, an analyst with NPD Group Inc., a marketing research firm.

For musicians, it's another way to resell their entire catalogs to fans who want the songs in multiple formats, he said.

Still, online holdouts remain.

The Beatles, who were one of the last bands to embrace CDs, haven't allowed any online service to sell their music. Solo songs from John Lennon, for instance, are not on iTunes but available on MSN Music and other sites.

The band's Apple Corps, the guardian of the group's commercial interests, has been locked in various lawsuits for years with Apple Computer over the use of the Apple logo. In May, a London judge ruled Apple is entitled to use the logo on iTunes. Apple Corps argued the computer maker had broken a 1991 agreement in which each side agreed not to enter into the other's field of business.

London-based Apple Corps did not respond to interview requests.

Led Zeppelin songs aren't at the sites, but some solo material from Jimmy Page and Robert Plant are available at iTunes and other online stores. A spokeswoman from Warner Music Group declined comment.

Radiohead songs can't be downloaded either, but lead singer Thom Yorke's new album "Eraser" is available. A publicist said the band didn't respond to interview requests.

Garth Brooks left Capitol Records in 2005 and then inked a deal with Wal-Mart Stores Inc. to sell his material. The country singer hasn't allowed his songs to be legally downloaded at any major stores including Wal-Mart's service, where songs are sold for 88 cents. Brooks' manager, Bob Doyle, did not return calls.

[ZEUSS]

Metallica also had 6000 full albums downloaded on Itunes the first week. $$$$ Ka ching
Hard to resist that.

[djui5]

Garth has sold 130 million records, or something close to that...he can afford to tell everyone to piss off.

The fact he only uses wal-mart should say something to other artists...hello...

Metallica's James Hetfield performs with the band during at a party for the film "The Darwin Awards"

How Darwin would it be if this was the death of the band....hahahahah

[The Spark]

Wasnt Garth Brooks raising a stink against selling used CD's at one point? Its no wonder hes anti downloading.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by djui5

The fact he only uses wal-mart should say something to other artists...

"slave labor pays"?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[kats]

I'm not sure I understand the "pride" of not going to itunes. The moment you decide you want to cash in on your art, all bets are off IMO. What I do understand, is if they feel they're compromising their financial position by going to itunes - sure, don't bother with it then.

[I C LIGHT]

I read some interviews by a musicians about when you would go to the record store an buy that album. It seemed when you physical payed for it, that it had even a more special significance to it. A religious relic or something like that.

Some of those led Zepplin albums are like Magical relics. I have them on albums an Cd's , an tapes that are old.

Put led Zepplin on an I pod, your image of zep looks like a cheesy plastic box with 10,000 other songs. I understand it. Other bands I think it's a good choice. For ex poser, an after hearing the song 15 TIMES. you may not want to ever hear it again. An that may rub off on great albums, Physlogical that you heard 15 time.

But then again we live in the extreme disposable world

[I C LIGHT]

This youtube.com is really cool. Boot-leg Randy Rhodes warm-ups. That stuff puts fuel in the fire to keep something alive. crazy computer age. Just ignore me.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by ZEUSS

Metallica also had 6000 full albums downloaded on Itunes the first week. $$$$ Ka ching
Hard to resist that.

Yeah, I'm sure the band was jumping for joy over that $30,000

[ZEUSS]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Yeah, I'm sure the band was jumping for joy over that $30,000

Well its not jumping for joy over the first week for them but it sure adds up over a few years. And better than not being on Itunes.

[Shandy]

Are you sure about that 6,000 albums number? For a band like Metallica, that's a pretty sad debut week on iTunes.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Yeah, I'm sure the band was jumping for joy over that $30,000

Split between four or five band members, managers, delivery companies (Verizon & Apple & all of 'em) at a buck a song and 'ya know...

The individual band members probably saw about $500 of that $30K.

I miss having album artwork & liner notes...

Downloads are kool for singles & oddball things but if want a record I WANT THE RECORD as it were, as they used to be.

[dreamsongs]

It is sad and true that CD sales will soon become the odd and non-practical way to buy music.

The thing is...if you're not getting enough $$$ from CD sales you might as well get on the train before it leaves the station.

The times are-a-changing and we all got bills to pay...

[stevep]

What about Jazz ?

I think these guys that buy Jazz will continue to buy CDs..........




what do you think ?





.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by stevep

What about Jazz ?

I think these guys that buy Jazz will continue to buy CDs..........




what do you think ?





.

Do people still buy jazz?

[stevep]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Do people still buy jazz?

Haaa...... Lol I guess some do..........

These Jazz guys probably wont be downloading one song at a time,

there may not be much money in it but i would think they would still be the holdouts that will still buy CDs


mabe...............

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Do people still buy jazz?

I do!

But I don't listen to much "modern rock" other then whatever someone is throwing at me or ANY of that urban hip-hop/R&B stuff.

When I think of R&B I think of cats like Al Green & Marvin Gaye.

I guess they call that "soul" now..

But yeah...lots of indie & "real" artists here. Anders Osbourne, Bonnie Rait, Richard "Groove" Holmes, Paul Pena...

That's what I've been spinning recently.

MP3's are the modern day cassette. What we need is a real, honest to goodness, HIGHLY cross-compatible & hi-fi replacement for the CD.

That would eventually boost sales, the record companies would get to rerelease all those classic records again...

Moving to MP3 and digital downloads as a whole really just rapes the value of the art & music as a whole IMO.

[djui5]

I thought most Jazz and Classical guys bought their music in vinyl. Then there's the DVD-A's/SACD's that seem to be selling a bit of Classical.

ahh...guessing the future. Always fun. I'm not sure it will be mp3's either. Downloads yes, but mp3's maybe not. There are other avenues to deliver music.

[kats]

ahh...guessing the future. Always fun. I'm not sure it will be mp3's either. Downloads yes, but mp3's maybe not.

You bet the farm on that. Obviously ipod etal is profit driven, and they've pretty much nailed the convenience/storage space angle. Next up, fidelity. Once the ipod thing is completely saturated, they're going to have to find a way to get all these people to dump them, spend more $$$$$ and buy new hardware. It's what makes the world go round

[djui5]

Originally Posted by kats

spend more $$$$$ and buy new hardware. It's what makes the world go round

You mean it's what make Sony go round...

haha

[stevep]

MP3's are the modern day cassette. What we need is a real, honest to goodness, HIGHLY cross-compatible & hi-fi replacement for the CD.

That would eventually boost sales, the record companies would get to rerelease all those classic records again...

Yes, There is Hope

[dreamsongs]

To me, after the era of mp3's are over there will be a resurgence of "high fidelity".

We've talked about this here in many threads. Most kids don't care about how it sounds as long as it sounds OK. The i-pod will do as far as quality, plus it's hip, all the kids do it. If you're a kid and don't own some type of mp3 portable player you're a square.

And when I say kids, I mean the 12-29 age group. That's the demographic spread which really is the buying public these days.

So...after the mp3 days are over, I will look forward to the "24 bit music DVD" for the price of a cheap wal-mart CD but a huge improvement in fidelity. I will settle for that. It's out now but in small volumes because nobody cares how much better it sounds. I don't think these kids care about the extra 8 bits of quality when they're not buying CD's to begin with.

I know there's technology out there to even improve that...but why bother when they can feed it to you in small pieces and keep raking in the millions.

The car analogy would be - they can produce an futuristic alien looking luxury state of the art car with all the technology and goodies, but as long as people keep buying the Ford Taurus...! -

So, we're stuck with the mp3 for a while busting our asses making great sounding records so it can be downloaded by a 12 year old and played thru his i-pod or $25.00 computer speaker that came included with his desktop...dfegad

Maybe some day this will change but I'm not holding my breath...

[kats]

We've talked about this here in many threads. Most kids don't care about how it sounds as long as it sounds OK. The i-pod will do as far as quality, plus it's hip, all the kids do it. If you're a kid and don't own some type of mp3 portable player you're a square.

The kids will care about whatever we brainwash them into thinking so we can make money. Once the powers that be decide the mp3 thing has been milked to the point of diminishing returns, they'll convince the kids that mp3's suck.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by kats

The kids will care about whatever we brainwash them into thinking so we can make money. Once the powers that be decide the mp3 thing has been milked to the point of diminishing returns, they'll convince the kids that mp3's suck.

You know what's also sad...

Even when I invite my daughter and her friends (in the 14 year old range) briefly into the studio to listen to a new arrived mastered demo, they don't seem to notice any difference.

I'll play the song thru the monitors or my good hi-fi stereo and they love it. Then...10 minutes later, they're back on their i-pods.

I often think, - don't they hear the difference in the quality ? How can they listen to music in my studio and then go back to their mp3's and not notice how bad it sounds ? -

I don't know if this is ignorance or laziness but it's sometimes frustrating...

[tubejay]

Oh man, like the Beatles can't afford smaller profits. Give me a break...