This is one of the things I love abt. Gearslutz and the producer/engineer community in general. Fader jockeys with deep opinions about geopolitics. Gotta love it!
huh?
are they supposed to be idiots with no clue about anything but gear?
It may sound utopian, but at some stage we need to outlaw greed.
No... it doesn't sound utopian... just maybe not for the reasons you intended.
Now if we could just throw some religion and the obligatory Hitler reference in here, we'd have officially beaten this thread to death.
+1 sm7b
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PRODUCTION GOAL: Blend ridiculously diverse musical influences into a viable pop signature sound that works for top 40 radio, clubs, earbuds, computer speakers, car stereos, submarine galleys, Australian walkabouts, Turkish prisons, skydiving simulators, volcanic craters, anechoic chambers, Martian discotheques, and all other known and unknown playback scenarios in perpetuity throughout the universe. - AINT NOBODY
This is an excellent thread, yes I just read 20 pages of it haha! As a member of the millennial generation myself I am very interested in the cultural attitudes that have got us to where we are now. I agree that my generation is surprisingly (and unfortunately) disconnected from reality. I feel that the web and a culture of hyper-consumerism has created a generation that is increasingly isolated and feels that self interest is the key to happiness; it's really quite sad. Why is it that we believe so strongly in our right to "free" content and go to such lengths to defend this right? There is hope though, I think if we are aware of what causes these attitudes then maybe we can change them.
here is a quote from the Junkee article that is linked in the music business section that I think hits the nail on the head. -
"Our ability to rationalise our behaviour is one of our most powerful psychological tools. On the Internet, it now comes paired with one of our most difficult to resist impulses: to be gratified, instantly. These things together, balled up in anonymity, have conspired to create a behaviour that is extremely hard for us to overcome: If no one will ever see me taking this thing for free that I want right now, why would I ever not take it?"
The problem is that the devaluation of content on the internet is a recipe for economic disaster, and not just for the music industry. As we transition to an information based economy the web manifesto "information wants to be free" is just not going to work. As more and more industries move into the digital economy they will realize what the music business has already learned and that is that free content is not a viable business model. Somehow we've got to figure out a way to convince people that what seems great in the short term (free content) is actually very dangerous in the long term (reduced economic outlook for everyone).
agreed. these issues are not limited to just music.
The desire to see the Internet remain free and open does not mean, however, that we should countenance lawlessness. A balance must be struck between the needs of content creators and the advocates of a free and open Internet. The “rules of the road” are still to be written and, when they are, the need to protect U.S. generated intellectual property should be foremost in the minds of legislators.
The Internet and the world of e-commerce will not continue to grow and thrive either in an environment of overbearing regulation or in one which turns a blind eye to theft and other forms of lawlessness. Freedom and safety are complementary; the American people deserve both. The Internet must not become a haven for hackers and foreign criminals.
Two major shows (Simon and Robert Plant) moved to a much smaller venue recently.
The same thing happened last concert season - poor attendances, cancelled shows, or relocated shows.
A ten year old music festival outside Sydney (Peats Ridge) folded after this years event, leaving support staff and artists unpaid.
Now if we could just throw some religion and the obligatory Hitler reference in here, we'd have officially beaten this thread to death.
Unless anyone has an answer to this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
We can either find a way to curb piracy (bring back vinyl) or just admit that music is free and that monetizing your music is going to require something other than selling it to the public.
My five year old prediction remains that the live circuit wont be able to take up the slack from record sales for very long.
And those artists are house hold names. It's even harder at the grass roots level. For some reason society in general is not as interested in live music anymore. I have no idea how this happened.
And those artists are house hold names. It's even harder at the grass roots level. For some reason society in general is not as interested in live music anymore. I have no idea how this happened.
Like this year's big Grammy winners Gotye, Adele and Mumford & Son?
Quote:
Too expensive.
Getting warm.
Certainly the shows I linked to, which are near to me, have struggled due to lack of ticket sales. Tickets are vert expensive, most people have to book two nights accommodation, and it often rains on the night of the show.
Like this year's big Grammy winners Gotye, Adele and Mumford & Son?
They're not really huge though. Well, Adele is (rimshot).
I don't know, are their tours a bust or a success?
I'm talking about your Britneys, Madonnas, and those types sort of changed the landscape, along with machines and DJs. Going to a concert to hear people play just isn't as massively popular as it used to be.
There aren't even any musicians that anyone cares about much. The glory days had bands where even the bass player was an important part of the band. Now it's mostly faceless boring musicians that all play the same.
Quote:
Getting warm.
Certainly the shows I linked to, which are near to me, have struggled due to lack of ticket sales. Tickets are vert expensive, most people have to book two nights accommodation, and it often rains on the night of the show.
Yeah, they're too expensive. It's just insane.
You add up all these factors and it's no wonder live music ain't as popular as it used to be.
I don't think there is a lack of musician ship at the moment. I think society appreciates musicianship less than they did previously. Probably because most people listen to most of their music while they're going something else. Walking down the st, going to the gym etc.
I don't think there is a lack of musician ship at the moment. I think society appreciates musicianship less than they did previously. Probably because most people listen to most of their music while they're going something else. Walking down the st, going to the gym etc.
I think it's both.
No one is into it because the landscape has changed.
But I also think that while there are tons of great musicians, there are not a lot of personalities with distinctive styles.
For example, name all the musicians in The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, and a bunch of others.
Now name all the musicians in Maroon 5 and Arcade Fire and Mumford and Sons and Adele's band.
Well first I'm not in my twenties. If I was I might be able to name band members.
Second, when The Stones, Beatles and Led Zeppelin all got famous, there were many fewer famous bands, and many fewer genres.
I think there is MORE musicianship than before. I don't think people care any more or less about musicianship. I don't really see a difference in numbers of people who care about how good a guitar player is vs. when I was a kid. The difference is the people who cared were my peers. Now the people who care are younger. I certainly know a bunch of kids who seem to care about musicianship they way I used to.
I actually care a lot less about chops and musicianship then I used to. I am far more interested in songs than I am in chops these days. I know people are going to try and "correct" me and get all nitpicky on the definition of "musicianship" but... don't bother.
The music I like tends to be less complicated and more simple, but created with an artistic vision and passion.
Anyway, if you think people don't care about musicianship then spend a little time browsing all the great young musicians posting their videos on youtube. You will get depressed in a way because kids are SO GOOD!
Schools are doing a better job of churning out musicianship, I believe. For example, the jazz programs at high school are much better than they were when I was in high school ('84-'88). However, society is churning out less musicians. Before iPods, TVs, and turnatables, every house had a piano or at least a guitar & harmonica. At least one member of the house could play. Otherwise there was no music in the house.
What's missing now are enough places for our good musicians to play & hone their craft. There are fewer venues (and crappy pay) and people don't have music performed in their homes. Music performance is far less an integral part of the American life. Kill the Internet & kill the TV, and you might start seeing people gather around the piano again.
What's missing now are enough places for our good musicians to play & hone their craft. There are fewer venues (and crappy pay) and people don't have music performed in their homes. Music performance is far less an integral part of the American life. Kill the Internet & kill the TV, and you might start seeing people gather around the piano again.
I think you're right, and the only bright spot are the well organized house concerts and associated tours that are happening, but that is only solving for the folk or singer/songwriter performer. That is actually a good thing for the smaller artist, but it seems much more of a challenge for those in the middle or that have full bands.
I think there is MORE musicianship than before. I don't think people care any more or less about musicianship. I don't really see a difference in numbers of people who care about how good a guitar player is vs. when I was a kid. The difference is the people who cared were my peers. Now the people who care are younger. I certainly know a bunch of kids who seem to care about musicianship they way I used to.
I actually care a lot less about chops and musicianship then I used to. I am far more interested in songs than I am in chops these days. I know people are going to try and "correct" me and get all nitpicky on the definition of "musicianship" but... don't bother.
The music I like tends to be less complicated and more simple, but created with an artistic vision and passion.
Anyway, if you think people don't care about musicianship then spend a little time browsing all the great young musicians posting their videos on youtube. You will get depressed in a way because kids are SO GOOD!
I said there are a lot of great musicians now. Yes there are tons of people on youtube who are good. Would you pay to see them live?
But who are the bands that have irreplaceable musicians?
I'm not talking about "chops".
George Harrison wasn't the technically greatest guitarist of all time. But he was an integral part of The Beatles. Without him, The Beatles would not be the same. Plus, he was a celebrity with a personality. And, you could recognize his playing without knowing it's him.
If Maroon 5, one of the biggest bands in the world right now, lost any of their musicians, whoever they are, would anyone care, including their fans?
I agree with brassmoose and nuthin. Too much pessimism around attitudes to young musicians.
I would just say where I've been there is very little money in the live scene, which is bad news for very small artists because petrol, food and accommodation are more expensive than ever.
Lots of amazing musicians around though, both amazing in vision and soul, and amazing chops - if that's your thing.
I agree with brassmoose and nuthin. Too much pessimism around attitudes to young musicians.
I would just say where I've been there is very little money in the live scene, which is bad news for very small artists because petrol, food and accommodation are more expensive than ever.
Lots of amazing musicians around though, both amazing in vision and soul, and amazing chops - if that's your thing.
I agree with me.
I'm not saying this to be pessimistic.
The topic, at this point, was the lack of interest in live music.
I'm just thinking of reasons why people (fans) are less interested.
Not to put too fine a point on it... but plainly speaking there are more entertainment options than ever before. When going to see a live band was the most exciting thing you could do, it was a huge draw. Now you can get a better experience in your living room watching a blueray disk and much better sound, much better seat. I don't wonder why live music is less popular. It appears to be very simple to me.
I am someone who does indeed pay to have a live concert experience via a stream into my living room. I've watched many concerts this way, most free, but paid for several as well. I think that might just be the future... I go to concerts too, but nowhere near as many. I hate big stadium shows where you end up watching the monitors.
Not to put too fine a point on it... but plainly speaking there are more entertainment options than ever before. When going to see a live band was the most exciting thing you could do, it was a huge draw. Now you can get a better experience in your living room watching a blueray disk and much better sound, much better seat. I don't wonder why live music is less popular. It appears to be very simple to me.
Another reason.
But it's not nearly the same.
I think young girls are probably pretty excited to see Bieber in person, even if they're in the back row, and even if he's lip syncing.
And they don't give 2 shits about the canned music and the people pretending to play instruments. If it were a live band with live singing, they'd probably be bummed that it doesn't sound all the great, or just like the recording.
Just watched the Los Lobos "Kiko" show on blueray.. wow, fantastic all around. If there's a better band in America not named "Wilco" I don't know of it.
Just watched the Los Lobos "Kiko" show on blueray.. wow, fantastic all around. If there's a better band in America not named "Wilco" I don't know of it.
Los Lobos formed in the 70s!
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Originally Posted by Ntk drummer
Three off the top of my head. Questlove from the roots, cater beauford from Dave Matthews band and Flea from type chilli peppers.
The Roots formed in '87!
Dave Mathews formed in '91!
Chili Peppers formed in '83!
I just don't think people are really into bands like they used to be. Maybe they are, but it doesn't seem like it.
People not into bands?
I've received a few emails recently from friends raving about Tama Impala.
Several threads recently here at Gearslutz raving about Tam Impala.
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