Advice for building up a hardware home studio

Saxtrack · 9th August 2006, 10:35 PM

Hi,

it seems to me that recording based on PC is very nice in theory but it does not really work in reality because of endless problems with soft-/hardware conflicts, configuration issues, stability....

What components would I need to build up a hardware studio?

If I use for example an Alesis HD24 what else do I need: micpre, CDburner anything else? How can I manage editing and mastering and MIDIsequencing/editing?

Could you make any suggestions?

Thanks a lot.

joelpatterson · 9th August 2006, 10:51 PM

This is an easy one.

You are going to need Digital Performer and an interface--MOTU 2408 is fine, really. For a CD burner, the HHB 830 gives you lots of I/O options and is uber-reliable. You'll have to move your tracks from the HD24 into the computer for mixing and editing..... I mean, this is the 21rst century.

Your mics are up to you, but an assortment of mic pre's couldn't hurt--say a few Grace 101's, some Syteks, maybe just for kicks an OctoPre LE and some DMP3's? Very practical to have some compressor/limiters on hand--Presonus makes some handy ones, even the dreaded Behringer has come out with perfectly usable units.

Get yourself a nice keyboard controller, a drum machine, synths... headphone mixer?

Something like an Allen & Heath Mixwizard can come in handy...

That a start?

Kiwiburger · 9th August 2006, 11:13 PM

PC recording is completely possible, and by far the cheapest, best way to go.

You only hear from the whiners who can't configure their systems - usually 13 year old kids trying to run cracked software on dads 10 year old PC.

You probably need some IT skills - or be rich enough to pay for somebody with IT skills. For non-technical creative types, there probably is some merit in the proprietory Mac based systems that work, because they don't allow any other options. With PC stuff, you have so many options that now and then you may find some incompatibilities. But even if you have to replace a motherboard or soundcard - it's still freaken cheaper than the hardware options.

If you buy hard disk recorder - figure on buying a 24 channel mixing desk, multiple preamps, compressors, eqs, reverbs - the spending will never end. The cost of cableing alone will bring tears to your eyes. And then there are the hum problems ... good luck.

The dman · 10th August 2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Find a suitable space. Rent/buy/lease the space. (buy is the best)

Consult with an electrician familiar with recording studios on power.

Consult with an HVAC studio specialist.

Design, or get designed, a suitable acoustic shell/treatment plan.

Still have not bought slutty gear, but on the way to a great space.

Round up buddies. Who is an electrician/plumber/HVAC specialist? Who frames houses, who can weld, who hangs sheetrock? Contract for the rest of the work.

Do you already own some gear? A big console, interesting giant monitors? Integrate in the plan.

Don't buy gear unless it's over 70% off and of classic type. You just have to store it.

Discover disaster in progress, like a wall of mud sagging through a concrete wall. Fix.

Get buddies and contractors to work. Inspect every day. Have enough money.

Fight with buddies and contractors about responsibilities. Have enough money, more than you ever thought. .

Finish construction.

Time to finish treating the inside. Buy the right gear.

Go.

Whoa

It's tough to give advice unless you tell us your goals. Do you want a commercial room? Project studio? Or is this for yourself?

Will you be tracking? Mixing? Both?

Do you have a room? blah blah blah

Quote:

it seems to me that recording based on PC is very nice in theory but it does not really work in reality because of endless problems with soft-/hardware conflicts, configuration issues, stability....

That's totaly untrue. My PC system (touch wood) runs 12+ hours a day and
I have no problems. I owned a Mackie HDR and it was great but for what I do the computer is much better. MDM's are computers too

theblue1 · 10th August 2006, 12:32 AM

Work the way you think will work best for you, for sure. If that means an all-in-one box or perhaps a modular system built around a dedicated recorder, there are always limitations but the simplicity/straightforwardness may outweigh them.

Now, I'm so tempted to jump in here and "stick up" for computer based recording... I really don't think it has to be beset by problems and set up issues... but I'd be lying if I claimed I hadn't heard of people with them... or even had them myself on occasion. However, in my experience in this century [never get tired of saying it that way] those issues are nothing compared to the issues I had back in '96 getting my first PC DAW and CD burner going. The SCSI CD burner was -- without a hint of doubt -- a FAR, FAR bigger PITA at every step of the way than my 8 channel ADAT-lightpipe Cakewalk Pro Audio-powered DAW. Actually, looking back on it, the DAW was pretty easy. But I still get a tight jaw thinking about getting that first CD burner going and having to deal with infuriating companies like Adaptec (who now call their CD division Roxio).

You know, people rhapsodize about the simplicity of tape machines... but I've always thought they must be people who didn't have to maintain or electronically -- or physically (shudder) -- align tape machines. Anyone can hit a green button. But keeping those things running in good shape was not exactly hassle-free.

I suppose the modular recording box system you're talking about would be a little more analagous to my "in-between" rig... a pair of ADATs and a BRC, yoked via MIDI to my computer... that wasn't exactly "issue-free" lemme tell ya -- but it definitely beat trying to keep my 70-8 1/2" 8 track running.

I dunno.

Do what you feel.

squeegybug · 10th August 2006, 05:03 AM

http://www.akaipro.com/prodDPS24.php

Plug in mics. Push record.

Steve

dale116dot7 · 14th August 2006, 02:56 PM

I run an Alesis HD24 and I'm very happy with it. Mostly because I can record a whole band at once and not worry about anything - it has enough channels, etc. But I bought an older Soundcraft 2400 to go with it, and upgraded it a bunch because it's pretty old and needed cleaning and new capacitors, etc. Then, add all of the reverbs and hardware compressors and built a bunch of preamps. I have probably $40,000 or $50,000 put into the gear and rooms and mics.

Another option is something like the Tascam DM24 board with 24 channels of optical I/O. Those include useable compression, adequate but not brilliant mic preamps and converters, and a few reverbs. A CD burner is good - the HHB is supposed to be good, but I use an Alesis Masterlink which I really like. You should be able to get a DM24 on Ebay for around $1000 to $1500 (I have one that I'm selling, actually) but I don't have the optical cards any more but you can get those easily.

Editing on the HD24 is pretty easy - not quite as easy if you like editing visually, but it's kinda like a hybrid between tape and computer. You locate by scrubbing like you do on tape, but you can cut and paste easily from track to track. I prefer it because my hay job is all in front of a computer screen so I am very happy not to have a screen to stare at in the studio too.

If I were starting again I'm not too sure if I would still do what I've done or if I would go in-the-box. I would definitely get a big control surface with a lot of real faders though.

Saxtrack · 15th August 2006, 08:01 PM

Thanks for all your input.

Does it make any sense to combine the Alesis with a PC?
Would it make things more stable if the Alesis is used for recording and the PC only for editing and/or mixing?
Would the sound quality be better compared to recording directly to PC?

dale116dot7 · 16th August 2006, 07:43 PM

I like the thought process of mixing in a real mixer, but your suggestion would work. I don't feel you really are needing the HD recorder, but might be better to get a stable PT or Cubase or Nuendo setup instead if you are mixing ITB. It can be done.

When doing overdubs, you need to mix in a PC if you don't have a mixer so you need all the proper I/O's to connect 24 tracks into your PC, so you need to have a lot of firepower available on the PC end anyways. And if the PC crashes during an overdub you're not much better off than someone using a PC/DAW setup. Alternatively you could use a smallish, cheap, 24-track mixer to do monitor mix on, and use the PC for editing and mixing down only, but that seems a bit strange to my way of thinking. And you'll need a way of patching things into the A-D system - preamps need to get repatched to the input of your HD24 manually so you'll need all that cabling and a patchbay from preamps to analog inputs. Using a digital mixer or a PC/DAW system you don't need to do all of that.

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9th August 2006, 10:35 PM	#1
Saxtrack Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 56	Advice for building up a hardware home studio Hi, it seems to me that recording based on PC is very nice in theory but it does not really work in reality because of endless problems with soft-/hardware conflicts, configuration issues, stability.... What components would I need to build up a hardware studio? If I use for example an Alesis HD24 what else do I need: micpre, CDburner anything else? How can I manage editing and mastering and MIDIsequencing/editing? Could you make any suggestions? Thanks a lot.

9th August 2006, 10:51 PM	#2
joelpatterson Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 3,411	This is an easy one. You are going to need Digital Performer and an interface--MOTU 2408 is fine, really. For a CD burner, the HHB 830 gives you lots of I/O options and is uber-reliable. You'll have to move your tracks from the HD24 into the computer for mixing and editing..... I mean, this is the 21rst century. Your mics are up to you, but an assortment of mic pre's couldn't hurt--say a few Grace 101's, some Syteks, maybe just for kicks an OctoPre LE and some DMP3's? Very practical to have some compressor/limiters on hand--Presonus makes some handy ones, even the dreaded Behringer has come out with perfectly usable units. Get yourself a nice keyboard controller, a drum machine, synths... headphone mixer? Something like an Allen & Heath Mixwizard can come in handy... That a start? __________________ Mountaintop Studios ~the peak of perfection~ Petersburgh NY 12138 mountaintop@taconic.net

10th August 2006, 12:32 AM	#5
theblue1 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 5,701	Work the way you think will work best for you, for sure. If that means an all-in-one box or perhaps a modular system built around a dedicated recorder, there are always limitations but the simplicity/straightforwardness may outweigh them. Now, I'm so tempted to jump in here and "stick up" for computer based recording... I really don't think it has to be beset by problems and set up issues... but I'd be lying if I claimed I hadn't heard of people with them... or even had them myself on occasion. However, in my experience in this century [never get tired of saying it that way] those issues are nothing compared to the issues I had back in '96 getting my first PC DAW and CD burner going. The SCSI CD burner was -- without a hint of doubt -- a FAR, FAR bigger PITA at every step of the way than my 8 channel ADAT-lightpipe Cakewalk Pro Audio-powered DAW. Actually, looking back on it, the DAW was pretty easy. But I still get a tight jaw thinking about getting that first CD burner going and having to deal with infuriating companies like Adaptec (who now call their CD division Roxio). You know, people rhapsodize about the simplicity of tape machines... but I've always thought they must be people who didn't have to maintain or electronically -- or physically (shudder) -- align tape machines. Anyone can hit a green button. But keeping those things running in good shape was not exactly hassle-free. I suppose the modular recording box system you're talking about would be a little more analagous to my "in-between" rig... a pair of ADATs and a BRC, yoked via MIDI to my computer... that wasn't exactly "issue-free" lemme tell ya -- but it definitely beat trying to keep my 70-8 1/2" 8 track running. I dunno. Do what you feel. __________________ biz \| profile \| songblog \| acoustic \| mutant roots pop Last edited by theblue1; 10th August 2006 at 12:35 AM.. Reason: perspicacity

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9th August 2006, 11:13 PM	#3
Kiwiburger Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,767	PC recording is completely possible, and by far the cheapest, best way to go. You only hear from the whiners who can't configure their systems - usually 13 year old kids trying to run cracked software on dads 10 year old PC. You probably need some IT skills - or be rich enough to pay for somebody with IT skills. For non-technical creative types, there probably is some merit in the proprietory Mac based systems that work, because they don't allow any other options. With PC stuff, you have so many options that now and then you may find some incompatibilities. But even if you have to replace a motherboard or soundcard - it's still freaken cheaper than the hardware options. If you buy hard disk recorder - figure on buying a 24 channel mixing desk, multiple preamps, compressors, eqs, reverbs - the spending will never end. The cost of cableing alone will bring tears to your eyes. And then there are the hum problems ... good luck.

10th August 2006, 05:03 AM	#6
squeegybug Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Missouri USA Posts: 2,003	http://www.akaipro.com/prodDPS24.php Plug in mics. Push record. Steve

14th August 2006, 02:56 PM	#7
dale116dot7 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 553	I run an Alesis HD24 and I'm very happy with it. Mostly because I can record a whole band at once and not worry about anything - it has enough channels, etc. But I bought an older Soundcraft 2400 to go with it, and upgraded it a bunch because it's pretty old and needed cleaning and new capacitors, etc. Then, add all of the reverbs and hardware compressors and built a bunch of preamps. I have probably $40,000 or $50,000 put into the gear and rooms and mics. Another option is something like the Tascam DM24 board with 24 channels of optical I/O. Those include useable compression, adequate but not brilliant mic preamps and converters, and a few reverbs. A CD burner is good - the HHB is supposed to be good, but I use an Alesis Masterlink which I really like. You should be able to get a DM24 on Ebay for around $1000 to $1500 (I have one that I'm selling, actually) but I don't have the optical cards any more but you can get those easily. Editing on the HD24 is pretty easy - not quite as easy if you like editing visually, but it's kinda like a hybrid between tape and computer. You locate by scrubbing like you do on tape, but you can cut and paste easily from track to track. I prefer it because my hay job is all in front of a computer screen so I am very happy not to have a screen to stare at in the studio too. If I were starting again I'm not too sure if I would still do what I've done or if I would go in-the-box. I would definitely get a big control surface with a lot of real faders though.

15th August 2006, 08:01 PM	#8
Saxtrack Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 56	Thanks for all your input. Does it make any sense to combine the Alesis with a PC? Would it make things more stable if the Alesis is used for recording and the PC only for editing and/or mixing? Would the sound quality be better compared to recording directly to PC?

16th August 2006, 07:43 PM	#9
dale116dot7 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 553	I like the thought process of mixing in a real mixer, but your suggestion would work. I don't feel you really are needing the HD recorder, but might be better to get a stable PT or Cubase or Nuendo setup instead if you are mixing ITB. It can be done. When doing overdubs, you need to mix in a PC if you don't have a mixer so you need all the proper I/O's to connect 24 tracks into your PC, so you need to have a lot of firepower available on the PC end anyways. And if the PC crashes during an overdub you're not much better off than someone using a PC/DAW setup. Alternatively you could use a smallish, cheap, 24-track mixer to do monitor mix on, and use the PC for editing and mixing down only, but that seems a bit strange to my way of thinking. And you'll need a way of patching things into the A-D system - preamps need to get repatched to the input of your HD24 manually so you'll need all that cabling and a patchbay from preamps to analog inputs. Using a digital mixer or a PC/DAW system you don't need to do all of that.