Peluso P12, 22 251, 22 47LE

[MSR74]

Does anyone own all three of these mics that would like to post a vocal shootout. I'm curious. I would like to hear each side by side before making a purchase decision. Preferably male vocals (pop). Female vocals would be awesome as well...

Thanks...

[Infernal Device]

Nathan, care to chime in?

[Dot]

Hearing someone else's vocal on a mic can give you an idea of the overall quality of the mic, but it's not going to tell you much about how your voice will sound.

I've used all the Peluso mics, and regularly make quite successful recommendations based on info I get from clients about what they're wanting in a mic.

If you give some more specific info, I can make a recommendation.

[Mumblesound]

Ok, I'll play.

Out of the Peluso mics, would you put one up FIRST (over most anything) to get vocals?

We're also looking at this line of mics. The price to hype ratio is interesting.
We already know that we like the Soundelux U99... just hoping to spend less $$ and still be happy.

Are main vocal mic, as of late, is an AEA R84, if that helps. We're looking for something to compliment that.

Sorry about the hi-jack, but...

Seamus

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Mumblesound

Ok, I'll play.

Out of the Peluso mics, would you put one up FIRST (over most anything) to get vocals?

What kind of music are you tracking? What kind of sound do you want?

[cap217]

I own the 22 251 and 47LE and the 22 251 is a great mic. But for vox the 47LE is the go to mic. It is just more full. The c12 is very close to the 25. Tony can chime in on the differences btw those 2!

[shanabit]

Pop/Rock

I need ot know too DOT

[cap217]

Male 47, female 251

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Infernal Device

Nathan, care to chime in?

A simplified synopsis: The LE is the most balanced of the bunched in regards to it's frequency curve. If you want your sound to tilt to more bright less lows go for the P12, if you want even slightly brighter go for the 251. If you want more mid emphasis in general do the standard 2247. There is no genre specific microphone, it depends on the singer's tone, and how you want to accentuate or deemphasize certain frequencies that the singer naturally has, and how you want to present it in the mix. Very cut and dry IMO, but YMMV.

[Mumblesound]

Originally Posted by Dot

What kind of music are you tracking? What kind of sound do you want?

We do mostly your basic rock/pop/indie/punky stuff.
The AEA R84 gives a really nice realistic sound for looser arrangements and/or slower stuff.
I guess we're looking for a nice condenser to cut through a dense, guitar-driven mix.... but in a good way... without spending $2,500 or hurting our ears on
high-mids.

Seamus

[MSR74]

Pop vocals, a little R&B, Jazz, and Country. Male and female. I'm guessing probably the 47LE. Can someone chime in. Thanks...

[Rick Shepherd]

MSR74, In my signature is a song I recorded vocals using the 2247. Hope that helps.

[uncle duncan]

Get the 47LE and the P12, have a singer's party at your studio, check the tracks the next day, and send back the mic you don't want. And if both of those are too bright, the 47 short body would be the one you want. Or just eliminate the hassle and order the 47LE already. Whoever you get it from is probably going to give you 7 days to decide. Just make sure you're clear on their time frame. (7 days from their ship date, minus 4 days shipping, gives you 3 days to evaluate and return.)

[bluesbaz]

I try not to be negative, but I've used all of the Peluso mics, and I cant say anything good about them. Before you fork any money over you need to demo these things for several days and see for your self. I would have been very upset if someone had advised me to buy one of these mics.

[Empty Planet]

That's cool, bluesbaz. I've got both the 22 47 and the ribbon, and I like them both immensely. The ribbon does a great job for me on acoustic guitar and clean electric, and on my voice the 47 through a V78m is detailed, pleasantly balanced, and freakily rich in the low mids. That's just my experience with 'em.

You mind my asking about the circumstances in which you were able to use all of them?


Cheers.

[WATYF]

Originally Posted by bluesbaz

I try not to be negative, but I've used all of the Peluso mics, and I cant say anything good about them. Before you fork any money over you need to demo these things for several days and see for your self. I would have been very upset if someone had advised me to buy one of these mics.

I just wanted to chime in with some similar feedback. I did a lot of research on this (and other) forums and finally decided on trying out a P12 as my new main mic. My primary recording sources are vocals and acoustic... any other uses are ancillary. I heard some recordings (online) that were done with a 22 251 and 22 47 and I thought they sounded too bright / too dark (respectively), so I figured I'd give the P12 a shot (since it was touted as being somewhere between the 251 and 47).

So, I got the P12 on Monday, and on Tues/Weds/Thurs I had a few different sessions with various clients. I tried it on four different vocalists (3 male, 1 female) and two different acoustic guitars (Taylor 714 and 414CE), as well as a guitar cab (but I won't comment on that, because I wasn't really concerned with how that one turned out).

I didn't really like the P12 on any of the vocalists I tried it on except for one. That was one of the male vocalists, and frankly, the guy has a great voice, so he probably would have sounded good on anything. The main thing I noticed about the other vocalists was that it sounded (for lack of any better way to explain this) "narrow". It was "warmer", but the voice just didn't cut through very well. Detail in the softer syllables (and endings of the words and what not) was just not there the way I like it to be.

On acoustic, it sounded "OK" on the 714... but it wasn't a sound I would prefer... a little too colored. On the 414CE (my guitar, and the most commonly used instrument I track with) it sounded horrible. I did not compliment it in any way, and pretty much magnified every flaw (to surprising proportions).

Based on the fact that I wasn't wow'ed on any of the vocals, and because it made my primary instrument (414CE) sound like ass, I sent it back.... I wanted to try a nice tube mic to warm up my recordings, but at this point I am going to try out something more neutral (Gefell M930) and see if that gets me the results I'm looking for. If not, I may check out the Charter Oak stuff.

Let my qualify all of the above by saying this.... I don't know anything about anything... I have a small project studio, and I don't do this professionally. I have only used a handful of "good" mics (U87 et al) in my time, so it's not like I have years of experience to compare this mic to. I also am not saying that Peluso's suck or that the P12 sucked. It did have a definite character and warmth to it, and I can definitely see how someone would like that sound on a particular source for a particular style. But I would have to say that it is definitely (at least for my uses) nowhere near a good "all around" mic, as it proved to be very uncomplimentary to a number of the sources I used it on.


Anyway... I spent a lot of time looking into this stuff, and I just wanted to throw this out there for anyone else in my position (project studio looking for a primary mic upgrade) who might be scouring the internet for info. My best advice for those people, as many other people have already said, (and which I knew, but tried to avoid), is that there's pretty much no way to find out which mic you want just from asking questions and reading posts on the net (or even listening to samples, to some extent). Your best bet would be to find a good local dealer (or online dealer) who has a wide selection of brands and who is willing to let return any mic you don't like. And that's when asking around becomes useful... find out what's generating buzz, or what people are saying is a great [insert gear here], and then go try those out from your dealer until you find the one that meets what you want (and works with your sources/styles)... because everybody's sources and expectations are gonna be different.


I hope the M930 is what I'm looking for, but I'm perfectly OK with the possibility that it might not be, and I won't hesitate to return it and keep looking for a mic that really works with what I usually record.


WATYF

[borism]

Hi
This is interesting
And somehow Im not shoked by your comment, although I have not tried any Peluso Mic, but Ive been looking around aswell
WATYF
Let me ask you:
What Mics have you been using to compare the P12 so far or what is your reference or work mic at your place?
Thanks

borism

[WATYF]

Originally Posted by borism

Hi
This is interesting
And somehow Im not shoked by your comment, although I have not tried any Peluso Mic, but Ive been looking around aswell
WATYF
Let me ask you:
What Mics have you been using to compare the P12 so far or what is your reference or work mic at your place?
Thanks

borism

This will be my first "major" mic purchase, so my reference mics are not exactly the best. Currently, my main mic is a C1 (), but I also use an Oktava MC012 on acoustics. (Fortunately, I have very nice plug-ins to make up for this atrocity ). I have also recorded my vocal/guitar on a U87 and a TLM103... so I know what it's capable of sounding like (although I wasn't too hip on the 103).

I guess I can take this opportunity to clarify (in case anyone was unsure of what I was and wasn't saying). The P12 definitely sounded better than my C1 (not that that's a big shocker ). The C1 has a certain thin, mid-rangey (almost "digital" sounding) cheapness to it that was obviously not there in the P12. But my issue was not that my current mic (or any other mic) sounded better than the P12. My issue was that, in and of itself (not comparing it to anything else), I just didn't like the way the P12 made my tracks sound. I didn't sit back and go, "Yeah.... that's nice." It was more like, "err... I don't think I like that too much". And in the case of my 414CE, it was more of a, "Holy crap, that sounds like it's coming out of my ass".


WATYF

[gvonbaren]

Actually the Oktava MC012 can sound pretty nice on an acoustic.
IMHO

[henryrobinett]

Interesting. I have the 414CE too. I think anyone of my Pelusos make it sound wonderful. I'm a guitarist by profession. What mic pre were you using? How's your room? I use the Millennia and it's a wonderful match. There's rarely been anyone who hasn't commmented on the sound.

It might be the mic, but it also might be any number of other factors as well.

[AB3]

My wife is a pro jazz flutist with a great ear. We listened very carefully to the Peluso P12 versus Pearlman versus AEA R84 on my "Baritonish" voice.

THE PELUSO WON OUT!

While it does nothing to boost the mids, it boosts the highs in a creamy way and is clear and full with the bass.

So if the voice is already very rich, the P12 works great.

It may not be an all around mic (at least without eq) but it is clean enough, creamy enough and euphonic enough for a lot of things IMHO. I think it is underrated.

HOWEVER, I want the Peluso 251 as well, now that I know how well built and good sounding the P12 is.

By the way, on vocals, the P12 sounded best on my A Designs MP-2A pre.

It was still great on the Pacifica.

Once again - a lot depends on the source.

Also, try putting a windscreen on the P12. Makes it richer to me. Lots of other factors - room ,etc.

MAKE SURE windscreen is not shedding at all (i.e. rub it over a white paper and make sure particles are not falling before you put it over the mic).

[mdsmith64]

See, this is why I made this post recently:

Peluso Mics...weird.

I'm determined to try one for myself now to see what gives. Thanks again for making me aware of these mics Henry.


Best Regards,

Mike.

[pigpen]

I have the 47LE and the 251...both great. I actually find myself using the 251 more on male vocals (less eq later), but I would not kick either out of bed. I actually emailed Tony Belmont today about the P14 because I trust the brand at this point.
I am not going to go into a vs b vs c, but I have tried a TON of mics and always come away satisfied with my Pelusos. Could just be what I like to hear, I dunno, but they sound "right" to me.

Thread on....

[skygod]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

A simplified synopsis: The LE is the most balanced of the bunched in regards to it's frequency curve. If you want your sound to tilt to more bright less lows go for the P12, if you want even slightly brighter go for the 251. If you want more mid emphasis in general do the standard 2247. There is no genre specific microphone, it depends on the singer's tone, and how you want to accentuate or deemphasize certain frequencies that the singer naturally has, and how you want to present it in the mix. Very cut and dry IMO, but YMMV.

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

A simplified synopsis: The LE is the most balanced of the bunched in regards to it's frequency curve. If you want your sound to tilt to more bright less lows go for the P12, if you want even slightly brighter go for the 251. If you want more mid emphasis in general do the standard 2247. There is no genre specific microphone, it depends on the singer's tone, and how you want to accentuate or deemphasize certain frequencies that the singer naturally has, and how you want to present it in the mix. Very cut and dry IMO, but YMMV.

Pretty good simplified synopsis. But before you spend again on a specialty mic just because everybody else has one, step back and see where you really are in the grand scheme of the Universe.... then come back to reality to one of the three basic schools of reality mic'ing:

School 1: Gear snob insatiable anal retentive tweaker who is never satisfied with anything in life w/ money to spend to justify one's existence on the planet. Buy the best and mics and preamps and that's all she wrote:

Earthworks DPA; AKG C-12 VR Tube Microphone; Sony C800G Large Diaphragm Tube Condenser Microphone; Neumann Solution D Large Diaphragm Digital Microphone; U87 w/ Korby EQ mods; Korby Blue, Red, White; Horsch, Josephson, M-Gefell, Brauner, Royer etc ... $30-100K mic closet

School 2: Realist on a moderate budget: Do I want to spend less on a capable mic set and more on the preamp and compression and PEQ and fattening varieties (Crane Song HEDD, Spider, ATS-1, Amtek Pulteq, Fatso, Liquid Ch etc) with options to reamp/rechmooze later? Can I record it all clean and fatten it later? Very good choices: Oktava, Peluso, Pearlman, Lawson, Neuman, AT, EV, Shure, AKG, Peluso, Soundelux, etc $10-30K mic closet

School 3: Realist on limited budget: Oktava, AT, EV, Shure, AKG, etc This is the 'eye-of the tiger' hungry tekkie camp who make the best home recordings with minimalist stuff but can never achieve the mixes they want, unless they mix at a pro facility, not because of bad technique or bad recordings, but because they are stuck ITB with sterile plugins that will always suck and cannot afford the high end toys to do what can be done with OTB tools.

I recently ran into my very now old Japanese martial arts instructor from whom I earned advanced standing back in the 70s. He told me then - that as I grow older in life and hone my fighting skills, I will realize someday that a 'punch is just a punch' and a 'kick is just a kick.' He asked me again if I learned that lesson yet. The light bulb came on in my head BFFO -- (Blinding flash of the fukking obvious)

My life has come full circle and I have become increasingly aware what an idiot school 1 asshole I reallly have been for the past 30 years, and am more interested and refocused again on the 'minimalism' of school 3 above. The high end toys don't make the recording, the artist talent and engineer skills level does and always has. All the marketing hype and bullshit beyond that is just that ....

On which spot of quicksand are you sinking?

~skygod~

[MichaelAngelo]

Originally Posted by skygod

Pretty good simplified synopsis. But before you spend again on a specialty mic just because everybody else has one, step back and see where you really are in the grand scheme of the Universe.... then come back to reality to one of the three basic schools of reality mic'ing:

School 1: Gear snob insatiable anal retentive tweaker who is never satisfied with anything in life w/ money to spend to justify one's existence on the planet. Buy the best and mics and preamps and that's all she wrote:

Earthworks DPA; AKG C-12 VR Tube Microphone; Sony C800G Large Diaphragm Tube Condenser Microphone; Neumann Solution D Large Diaphragm Digital Microphone; U87 w/ Korby EQ mods; Korby Blue, Red, White; Horsch, Josephson, M-Gefell, Brauner, Royer etc ... $30-100K mic closet

School 2: Realist on a moderate budget: Do I want to spend less on a capable mic set and more on the preamp and compression and PEQ and fattening varieties (Crane Song HEDD, Spider, ATS-1, Amtek Pulteq, Fatso, Liquid Ch etc) with options to reamp/rechmooze later? Can I record it all clean and fatten it later? Very good choices: Oktava, Peluso, Pearlman, Lawson, Neuman, AT, EV, Shure, AKG, Peluso, Soundelux, etc $10-30K mic closet

School 3: Realist on limited budget: Oktava, AT, EV, Shure, AKG, etc This is the 'eye-of the tiger' hungry tekkie camp who make the best home recordings with minimalist stuff but can never achieve the mixes they want, unless they mix at a pro facility, not because of bad technique or bad recordings, but because they are stuck ITB with sterile plugins that will always suck and cannot afford the high end toys to do what can be done with OTB tools.

I recently ran into my very now old Japanese martial arts instructor from whom I earned advanced standing back in the 70s. He told me then - that as I grow older in life and hone my fighting skills, I will realize someday that a 'punch is just a punch' and a 'kick is just a kick.' He asked me again if I learned that lesson yet. The light bulb came on in my head BFFO -- (Blinding flash of the fukking obvious)

My life has come full circle and I have become increasingly aware what an idiot school 1 asshole I reallly have been for the past 30 years, and am more interested and refocused again on the 'minimalism' of school 3 above. The high end toys don't make the recording, the artist talent and engineer skills level does and always has. All the marketing hype and bullshit beyond that is just that ....

On which spot of quicksand are you sinking?

~skygod~

The equipment is just the tools........ Great engineer and cheap tools = Great engineering and a cheap job...great tools great engineer Great job. Why would you cut your lawn by hand? most importantly why would you want anything but the best of all ingredients for your artist....? But MOST important....Why would you want your artists sound to be less than there competition

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

. Why would you cut your lawn by hand?

Great analogy, that works both ways. I let the gardner mow the lawn but I do trim my eugenias by hand to avoid the boxy hedge look.

-R

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by skygod

Pretty good simplified synopsis.

On which spot of quicksand are you sinking?

None of the above...tools don't "wow" me, they aren't on a pedistal. And tools aren't "nothing" to me either, I like the right tool to be easily accessible and work the way I intend it to and make the job as easy as possible, but still come out of the speakers sounding how I want. The price of a piece of gear doesn't really mean anything, although in general more expensive stuff does sound better. But there are no absolutes, just like there are cheaper pieces that kick ass too. Each day is it's own, each piece of gear is it's own, and each production is it's own, no rules, no categories.