Waves SSL and Duende SSL: both from the same company?!

[Farshad]

Hi guys,

Yesterday I had the opportunity to listen to Waves SSL on a Friend's DAW and its sound was damn great. Especially the master buss comp worked as advertised: The GLUE!

I was talking to my friend and he mentioned something interesting:

He said several of his clients had told him this rumor: "Waves has developed the SSL plugins for both their company and Duende! The reason that we are seeing them as different products is that they think this competition helps the marketing and also it could help to sell some mandatory hardwares as well (Duende)!" He said the same thing has been said about UA plugins.

And now I am thinking: these days we have access to very fast CPUS (3 gig something). So does it make sense that we believe UA plugins could be handled by some 150 MHz Motorola DSPs but not with 3 gig CPUS?! Or basically the point is we MUST buy that hardware?!

It would be nice to hear more about this. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Cheers

[audiomichael]

Since I saw that the new MEGAFAST Intel Mac Pro's are out, I was thinking the same thing.

Soon we'll have all of these great plugins, but none will be running native! Everyone is gonna make you buy their DSP dongle.

[Farshad]

That is exactly what I am thinking. We are basically buying dongles!

[SnakeCained]

I don't think Waves had anything to do with Duende.

If you go to www.mixbus.com you can read posts by the programmer guy who is definitely not from Waves.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

I don't think Waves had anything to do with Duende.

If you go to www.mixbus.com you can read posts by the programmer guy who is definitely not from Waves.

umm... that link is funky

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Farshad

That is exactly what I am thinking. We are basically buying dongles!

I wouldn't call being able to run 32 channels of SSL plugs without soaking your computer's resources just a dongle, there are more folks out there who'd rather add this to an existing system than drop money right now on a computer. My 2.4 P4 PC has been running so smooth for about 3 years I'm hesitant to make a switch also!

War

[heathen]

I can almost guarantee my amd 64 x 2 4400 will run 32 channels of waves ssl without even going past %20. Not that I've done it yet but I will test it later this week.

[Farshad]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

I don't think Waves had anything to do with Duende.

If you go to www.mixbus.com you can read posts by the programmer guy who is definitely not from Waves.

Hi, the link you posted doesn't work. any ideas?

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by Farshad

Hi, the link you posted doesn't work. any ideas?

http://www.mixbuss.com/

Originally Posted by heathen

I can almost guarantee my amd 64 x 2 4400 will run 32 channels of waves ssl without even going past %20. Not that I've done it yet but I will test it later this week.

and computers will only get faster.

[SnakeCained]

Yeah looks like

www.mixbuss.com

Sorry, In the UK we have a Bus and lots of Busses.

Big red ones in fact

[TonyBelmont]

You can run 85 x instances of the Waves/ SSL E-Channel on a Macbook Pro....

Apparently it is super-optimized for the new Intel Macs.

http://216.153.91.12/fb/asn.aspx?t=5...282271m6529204

But, I am anti-external DSP... Ever since I had an epiphany and sold my PT HD Accel system, I vowed to never be tied to a DSP based system of any type.

[andymixer]

Tried the Duende with a couple buddies the other day. Quite frankly it sounds like complete ass. Haven't tried the Waves bundle yet but since the renaissance eq and compressor still sound a million times better than that waste of space after all these years, I can only imagine how much better the WAVES engineered clones must sound. Don't waste a cent on it. SSL can't make digital stuff to save their life. Hmmmm, must be why they hired waves in the first place. I know it's tempting to pull up something that says SSL on it while you mix, but really, that company needs to stop getting ridiculous amounts of money for their name and realize that they can't survive selling great equipment for ridiculous prices (the analogue stuff), and can't sell shit with their name on it and expect everyone to treat it as brilliant.

[andymixer]

P.S.

The user interface is even worse.

[demaarten]

and I always thought those renaissance plugins sounded like shit!!, man did I make a mistake there!!

[Solar]

One thing for sure fellas!!

As Tony mentioned and others here.. wich i second them and even TOP music producers, in the level COMPUTER are growing and developping crazy Cheapset that trippling everytime they come out with something new, sincerly only Big time Companies like Digi, UAD, now SLL who wants to join and Wave are going to suffer a bit because NEW young producer or engineer are understanding that dongled Native plugins are simply running smooth and the Computer power they are gettting is way beyond and more to come!

So me too, i'm one of those who believe that no NEED to really go buy DSP cards. Does not mean do not buy Digi or wave hardware DSP etc.. of course!! But you could put that money buying some great SUMMING BOXES etc... etc... and improve your sound way better!!

Only y 2cents!

Peace and ONE!!

[joshelevator]

no dsp for me either. i just don't need it and my computer is 4 years old. i use quality outboard gear, the waves ssl, psp, and anyone else who makes non-dsp plugins. with computers getting much faster each year, i would imagine that the dsp fx folks would start thinking about making non-dsp fx products.

[The Beatsmith]

lol @ duende sounding like ass...

well, it doesn't in my humble opinion.

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

lol @ duende sounding like ass...

well, it doesn't in my humble opinion.

Definately! Duende sounds very good! I can't even believe that the Waves SSL clones sound nearly as good!

A lot guys here seem to ignore the fact that the SSL's Algorithm was developed for the C-Consoles!!! Waves approach was building a plug in that sounds close to analog standards, SSL used an existing algorithm and transferred it into that unit!

This is the original ladies and gentlemen!

I am sure the waves tools will sound good! Perhaps the first unit from waves that sounds good! LOL *just kidding I do not know all of them*

I increased gain at 14kHz on the Duende EQ! This is where lot of other softQs sound like ass! Duende's EQ does definately not!!!

And when we talk about the C-Console algorithms I must admit there are people that dislike these units. Me not! And I also like the "Underdog Productions" releases which are most of the time mixed on a C200.

Oh by the way, the list Tony showed us listed how many instances can be started! I wonder what configurations did waves use for that test? 85 tracks of music from a firewire drive and a firewire interface? Just a sequencer's mixer with 85 opened instances? It is interesting what I could do on my machine!!! Actually I would also like to know if Waves SSL Plug Ins operate with Ableton Live? Most Waves tools do not work under that DAW! Duende does!

[warhead]

Originally Posted by andrewj

Definately! Duende sounds very good! I can't even believe that the Waves SSL clones sound nearly as good!

A lot guys here seem to ignore the fact that the SSL's Algorithm was developed for the C-Consoles!!! Waves approach was building a plug in that sounds close to analog standards, SSL used an existing algorithm and transferred it into that unit!

This is the original ladies and gentlemen!

Actually, SSL started with the C200 algorithms and from there brought them closer to their analog eq's and comps also. Based on the C200, tweaked closer to analog.

Originally Posted by andrewj

I would also like to know if Waves SSL Plug Ins operate with Ableton Live? Most Waves tools do not work under that DAW! Duende does!

Waves lists the software that their SSL plugs work with here:

http://www.waves.com/content.asp?id=2057

and Ableton Live is not going to be able to run it. I run Nuendo 2 still and have never bothered to upgrade, so I've been unable to spend time on my own system with the Waves SSL plugs but did spend time on a local studio's PT rig: the Waves SSL plugs are beyond good. They rock!

We have a Duende in for demo now, the guys at the Jam Room next door have it installed in their HD system but I haven't heard it yet...!

War

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by warhead

Ableton Live is not going to be able to run it. I run Nuendo 2 still and have never bothered to upgrade, so I've been unable to spend time on my own system with the Waves SSL plugs but did spend time on a local studio's PT rig: the Waves SSL plugs are beyond good. They rock!

We have a Duende in for demo now, the guys at the Jam Room next door have it installed in their HD system but I haven't heard it yet...!

War

And this is what I can not understand! These guys simly ignore some DAWs. For years!!!

I hope you can enjoy the duende War! Perhaps it is not as sexy as the waves tools for you, but I Dunede sounds damn god and it rocks, too!

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by andrewj

I can't even believe that the Waves SSL clones sound nearly as good!

If you haven't heard 'em, don't slag them off. The Waves SSL sound VERY good.

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by andymixer

Tried the Duende with a couple buddies the other day. Quite frankly it sounds like complete ass.

Very hard to believe.

Although...my ass sounds pretty good...so maybe that's what you meant.

[warhead]

"Look at my butt, it can rule nations."

[andymixer]

There's a reason the major music studios that installed SSL Digital consoles a few years back got rid of them almost as soon as they came through the door. I really really wanted the Duende to be cool, but it just doesn't cut it compared to stuff I already use. And the Duende bus compressor up against a Hardware 384 was a joke. Try it. You'll see what I mean.

[Solar]

One thing for sure, in my taste i 've tried the WAVes SSL and i think they sounded very good and musical also. And we all know that at teh END its a matter of TASTE. But no one gonna sat that the Duende ain't good at all, maybe not for you but for somebody else as people here said about the Liquid Mix and all other plugins or DSP card plugins..

So, get the plugins or the demo yourself, TEST it and if you like it, buy it if NOT, then work with the plugins or DSP card that bring your music to the next level..

One!!

[andrewj]

Originally Posted by andymixer

There's a reason the major music studios that installed SSL Digital consoles a few years back got rid of them almost as soon as they came through the door.

sorry, but there are still people working with the C-consoles and get great results!

Perhaps the original G-Series Compressor is nicer than Duende, but Duende is still far away from sounding like your ass!

To Audiomichael: Yes you are right and I will try the waves SSL Bundle when I have a DAW it works on. Have you tried Duende already?

[SnakeCained]

Well I've heard both the Waves and the Duende.

IMHO the waves sounds like a badly maintained 4k. Not to say that is not something you occasionally want. The Bus comp wasn't great.

The Duende Eq made me sit up and listen. Boy this is the best I've heard in a box.
whether it sounds like a C or E, G, J, K dosen't metter this is a serious tool which I'd reach for time and time again.

The bus comp ain't no 384 but useable.

[Farshad]

Has anyone actually done a point-to-point comparison between Waves an Duende SSL with downloadable audio demos? It would be nice if someone let me know.

Thanks

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Farshad

Has anyone actually done a point-to-point comparison between Waves an Duende SSL with downloadable audio demos? It would be nice if someone let me know.

Thanks

That was done on the "SSL vs what else SSL" thread.

Waves SSL, Duende, URS, Liquid Mix etc where all uploaded audio samples.