Passive Volume Controllers

[TEMAS]

OK, so I need to control the volume that I'm hearing from my Phoenix Audio N16 mixer through my Mackie HR824 active speakers. (No, I don't want to use the headphone output socket).

One day I'd like a Crane Song Avocet. But until I can afford it I'm reluctant to spend $800 on an SPL MTC 2381 or even more on the Coleman TB4 MK2 if they're not what I what for the long term.

So to make do, I think I'll get a Passive Volume Controller. The contenders:

SM Pro 'M-Patch 2' - The most fully featured of the lot, with a second (aux) input. (Perhaps I could use this as a talkback feature?) and 2 sets of stereo speaker outs.
http://www.smproaudio.com/MPATCH2.htm

NHT Pro 'PVC' - Has good pedigree; reputable company. Simple design - Stereo in - Stereo out.
http://www.nhtpro.com/products/pvc.html

A-Designs 'Atty' - Highly respected manufacturer. But not designed specifically for the task in hand. Small master knob/dial.
http://www.adesignsaudio.com/atty.htm

Which would you buy out of these (or any others that I've missed)?

[vibralux]

Hi- Temas I think we are at the same boat. Just few months ago we both got the Brauner (remember?) and just two weeks ago I got my passive volume controller for my Adams.
Well- my goal is to get the Benchmart DAC-1 which has a big volume controll (although I dont think it has a stepped attenuator which is essesnatil in some cases, like k14 metering), but fo 990$ You get an attenuator, a great conversion and two headphone outs...

But for now i went for the ATTY. People say that is sucks and that its noisy and has some issues with the balance. My experience so far is totally different. I use it between FF800 and the Adams s3a and the device does what it suppose to do- it attenuates the volume- without any noises or other artefacts.

For 90$ You get simple device that You wont hesitate to put it away when YOu go for the Avocet. Plus, later on You might use it as a „pad" between Your pres and converters. So I would go for it, especially that Peter Montessi from A designs offers the best customer service on earth. I live in Poland and ATTY was my only purchase from Peter and he helped my with everything I asked for, answering my email almost immedaitely. Get the ATTY and when You need the upgrade, go for the high end stuff. It makes no sense going „half way" IMHO.

Cheers, hope it helps

Marty

[ghellquist]

Originally Posted by vibralux

Well- my goal is to get the Benchmart DAC-1 which has a big volume controll (although I dont think it has a stepped attenuator which is essesnatil in some cases, like k14 metering), but fo 990$ You get an attenuator, a great conversion and two headphone outs...

Well, the potentiometer is stepped. Not quite a stepped control though. Even more useful for the K-system is that there is a calibrated setting where the potentiomer only controls headphone output. The output is then set by two 20-turn potentiometers on the back allowing for very precise adjustment.

If you mount the DAC1 so you can reach the switch on the back, the three monitor settings are: controlled by front, off, calibrated. So using the DAC1 in a small studio you need no monitor controller. I have mounted a remote power switch to the monitors right next to the DAC1 giving even more control.

Gunnar

[vibralux]

Cool- thanks for the info. So this makes it even a more obvious choice

I have a small studio and that' the only think I will need for monitoring controll.

Cheers

Marty

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by vibralux

Just few months ago we both got the Brauner (remember?)

Yeah, hi. It turned up finally then!

How do find the very small dial on the Atty? I bet the whole thing moves when you turn it, leads and all. Thats my main concern, because it will get a lot a use.

[vibralux]

Well its small, but its built quality is very solid- like a tank. It also has the Neutrik ins and out so also a very good quality. Although it has some silicon pads that You can attach (its already with the glue, so You just need to stick it to the bottom), it is light and when You put it on a desk it will move around- got to attache it to more firmly somehow. As for the pot- it feels ok to me. Its range is pretty big and I dont have any probs with that. Mind- that I dont use it for mastering when You need some critical and very, very adequate tools. For mixing it is really fine. As always IMHO.

Cheers

Marty

[Peter Montessi]

Originally Posted by vibralux

Well its small, but its built quality is very solid- like a tank. It also has the Neutrik ins and out so also a very good quality. Although it has some silicon pads that You can attach (its already with the glue, so You just need to stick it to the bottom), it is light and when You put it on a desk it will move around- got to attache it to more firmly somehow. As for the pot- it feels ok to me. Its range is pretty big and I dont have any probs with that. Mind- that I dont use it for mastering when You need some critical and very, very adequate tools. For mixing it is really fine. As always IMHO.

Cheers

Marty

Hi Marty and Temas,

Marty, thank you!
Temas, 2 responses to your concerns:

1, Velcro
2, Spend 2.00usd and find a knob that YOU like!

I hope this helped?

Peter Montessi
A Designs Audio
www.adesignsaudio.com

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by Peter Montessi

1, Velcro
2, Spend 2.00usd and find a knob that YOU like!

Thanks Peter. My mind had already started to think of various solutions, a different knob was definately one. I was also trying to think of a way to hide the cables going in and out of the sides and only have the knob in sight. But thats not your concern!!

Thanks again.

[Peter Montessi]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

Thanks Peter. My mind had already started to think of various solutions, a different knob was definately one. I was also trying to think of a way to hide the cables going in and out of the sides and only have the knob in sight. But thats not your concern!!

Thanks again.

Temas,

No worries, I have that figured out as well!

I Velcro the sucker to the underside of my desk and tape the cables up!
The ONLY thing you see is the knob and mute switch

Peter Montessi
A Designs Audio
www.adesignsaudio.com

[majortom]

I have 2 ATTYs. I use the Mute button a lot and after a few weeks I noticed that sometimes the sound would cut out or decrease a little in my right speaker. If I touched the mute button, it would jiggle and the sound would come back.

I swapped it out for another and it's worked fine for about 3 months.

I never called A-Designs about it.

Just a heads up.

[TAVD]

I made my own using a spare master fader & switches for input & output selection. It gets fed analog outs from a Benchmark DAC1 plus other analog sources. I actually prefer the sound of this to using the volume control on the DAC1. Plus, the DAC1 volume knob is free to do headphone duties. It's miles beyond the central station that I previously owned.

Peter, Have you ever considered expanding on the ATTY design to include input & speaker switches? Package it in a 1/2u enclosure to fill the half space next to a Benchmark or Lavry DAC. Anyway, it's just a thought.

[centurymantra]

I know there's a good number of manufacturers making passive volume controls and/or preamps that are marketed to the purist section of the audiophile community. Some of this may, of course, be considered overpriced as fit 'n' finish is part of the product's dollar tag, but worth looking at. Placette Audio made a couple interesting products and there's a bunch more, including some interesting DIY companies. I know a lot of folks with a little knowledge and some DIY gumption put their hands on the best stepped attenuators they can and build something themselves.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

My friends, I still find myself in the exact same situation: A Pair of Adams, A Rosetta and nothing reliable in the middle!

I´m still using my mackie1604 to controll my monitors and, although it´s very usefull, I´m sure that I could take better advantage with a less interfering device.

I too thought about the Presonus CS, the Danger,Spl,Coleman,Cranesong...and just like you TEMAS, i think that it´s stupid to spend money in a mid-end controller. I would prefer to go with a passive volume controller and wait until the time is right to buy a really high-end one.

So I was loving this thread...I just want to see the 3 contenders you listed a bit more discussed. I´d like to know what is available and wich are the best choices...
Wich controller would win the best performance for money in this category?

[kellyd]

NHT PVC. $99.00

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

One more thing, I forgot to ask: How do you intend to talkback and control headphones volume to your client?

[mahasandi]

no no stike not the mackie! replaced it with a Coleman !

or these other suggestions are fine.

http://www.colemanaudio.com/

[GCL]

For super-high quality with a stepped attenuator, check out the affordable Goldpoint stuff:

http://www.goldpt.com/

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by Dog_Chao_Chao

One more thing, I forgot to ask: How do you intend to talkback and control headphones volume to your client?

95 times out of 100 I'll be recording myself, and I've been so long without a studio I just want to start making music again. But I've built a specific live room (9" x 9") so that I can start recording musicians more professionally, so these are things to consider.

The headphones level will be controlled by the headphones volume knob on the nicerizer; when the day comes of my first multiple session recording (e.g. string quartet), I guess I'll by a distributer of some sort.

Talkbalk, well, I'm not sure yet; at the moment I can still visualise me poking my head round the door saying, 'that was perfect....just one time please!!' This is why I was wondering if the aux input on the M-Patch could be used for talkback duties, though I think it would start feeding back in the control room.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

95 times out of 100 I'll be recording myself, and I've been so long without a studio I just want to start making music again. But I've built a specific live room (9" x 9") so that I can start recording musicians more professionally, so these are things to consider.

The headphones level will be controlled by the headphones volume knob on the nicerizer; when the day comes of my first multiple session recording (e.g. string quartet), I guess I'll by a distributer of some sort.

Talkbalk, well, I'm not sure yet; at the moment I can still visualise me poking my head round the door saying, 'that was perfect....just one time please!!' This is why I was wondering if the aux input on the M-Patch could be used for talkback duties, though I think it would start feeding back in the control room.

Yeah, I still do that in my studio, and I don´t need to!

Anyway, I still didn´t understand one thing: If passive is what we are looking for, because passive can´t harm your signal(or can it?), then why are there so many different priced passive controllers? A cranesong is also a passive monitor controller, is it not? Why do some cost $50 and other $5000? I can only think that passive does not mean 0 interference.

I must admit that the Presonus CS is the one that has everything that I need. Talkback, 2 headphones volume, good for 3 monitors pairs ( I have 2) and a remote control. Also they say it´s a passive volume controller. It would be perfect if not for the huge amount of slutz stating that they heard a big difference when they upgraded to Dangerous/Cranesong/Coleman,etc..
Still don´t know what to get.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Originally Posted by GCL

For super-high quality with a stepped attenuator, check out the affordable Goldpoint stuff:

http://www.goldpt.com/

Yes I visited this little sucker too many times. Do you have one? how do they sound?

[James Lehmann]

The under-rated and reasonably priced LA Audio SPX-20 might be a good stop-gap solution.

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by James Lehmann

The under-rated and reasonably priced LA Audio SPX-20 might be a good stop-gap solution.

thumbsup Good call James. I knew there was one I'd forgotten about. Here's the link to their site, so that its now properly a contender like the others:
http://www.laaudio.co.uk/LAAudio_Products.jsp?CatID=11

If it had a talkback feature in there I'd be sold.

[vixapphire]

Hi there,
I've been reading with great interest, since I'm planning to move in the box by years end and have thus been considering some sort of studio master controller.

Not to ghettoize this thread, but what of the Presonus central controller or whatever it's called? Isn't it as good a passive knob as any? With all the added features (talkback - useless to me, but "many" selectable ins/outs), I'd think that for it's $500 list price it would've warranted a mention against all of the $900 boxes others have raised here.

Is it a piece of crap or what? what am i missing in thinking that it appears to do as much or more for less $$$ than most of the other stuff out there? How different can one passive volume control sound from another; isn't the point that they don't add coloration?

thanks in advance for your responses.

vic

[warhead]

The ATTY is an excellent sub $100 choice for most users.

vixapphire, the Presonus Central Station is what it's called. For $500 it is beyond an incredible value and performs more functions than most folks need. After spending time with one and comparing to other converters etc, I made the Central Station my personal controller as well. There are tons of easy to understand routing options, hell I only use maybe 25% of them but mainly bought it for monitor control and, after listening and comparing to my Lucid stuff, as the converter as well. Any differences between the two was picking nits really, and the left / right image on the passive knob on the Presonus was actually far tighter than the one on the face of my Lucid AD9624.

The meters are very nice and you can see them from across a football field.

War

[TAVD]

I went through several speaker/amp setups and a few DAs and could never unmask the sound while using the central station. I used one for over two years and it worked ok and offered some flexibility. You'll find many people here that like it and most qualify their praise with a "for the cost" statement. But it's not straight-wire transparent and it's also not as clean as some other passive devices. The headphone outs were pretty gritty on mine too. Try to balance what you can afford with what you need. If you have $500 but don't need all the stuff inside the central station, try one of the stepped volume controls like the goldpoint. If you can swing the extra cost, buy a coleman.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by Dog_Chao_Chao

Yes I visited this little sucker too many times. Do you have one? how do they sound?

I don't have one, but will probably pick one up for my B-monitor section. Didn't like the Presonus, had stereo image shift at very low volumes, plus cheap build quality. Had an Avocet for over a year, but sold it now that I'm using an Apogee Ensemble with all its features built-in. The Avocet was great though, but didn't need all the inputs/outputs and switching anymore. You have to have a stepped attenuator like the Avocet or Goldpoint to get accurate stereo imaging. I do have the PVC on my Powerbook, same problem at low volume (but great build quality).

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by vixapphire

I'd think that for it's $500 list price it would've warranted a mention against all of the $900 boxes others have raised here.

Yeah, I've looked into the Central Station and its a definate no for me; I'd so go for the SPL over that. But the point is that the $500-$1,000 range is what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want a mid quality product thats a jack of all trades but master of none, that I'll end up selling a few months down the line. But I can't afford (or justify) a top of range product yet. So for now, I'm just looking for a decent quality passive volume controller, until I can afford to go the whole hog.

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by GCL

I don't have one, but will probably pick one up for my B-monitor section. Didn't like the Presonus, had stereo image shift at very low volumes, plus cheap build quality. Had an Avocet for over a year, but sold it now that I'm using an Apogee Ensemble with all its features built-in. The Avocet was great though, but didn't need all the inputs/outputs and switching anymore. You have to have a stepped attenuator like the Avocet or Goldpoint to get accurate stereo imaging. I do have the PVC on my Powerbook, same problem at low volume (but great build quality).

thumbsup Thanks for the advice. I'm vearing towards the Goldpoint or the PVC at the moment, just because they know what they're trying to do and they do it well. And like you say, it'll always be useful for a laptop or Mac Mini when I upgrade.

EDIT - Actually, as much as I like it, the Goldpoint is too expensive - $379 to get the XLR version - stike

[TEMAS]

This is worth a quick read as well...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=64486

[TEMAS]

I feel like I'm talking to myself here!!

Here's a nice one with a stepped attenuator for £389, (£279, without). Lots of inputs and outputs, but all on phono jacks.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/passive_an.html

Here's another one that looks expensive.
http://www.marchandelec.com/pr41.html

Check out these ultra high-end ones...
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/a...4/pretone.html

This is worth a look too....
http://platenspeler.com/diy/amps/uk_geenkloon_1.html

And I think I may have found the mother of all stepped PVCs....Price: $2900 - $5300!!!!
http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipindex/Tip_39/tip_39.html


I'm starting to think more seriously again about the Goldpoint now.