quick preamp comparison

[macle]

This is a quick little shootout. Tried to match levels, etc. Acoustic guitar to mic to preamp to DAW, no EQ or lo-cut or anything. Had to edit down to get these to upload (24bit/44 wav), so maybe loop them in your DAW.

Anyway, which sounds best, and also, which do you think would work best over many tracks?

Thanks very much for any feedback.

[Gregg Sartiano]

2 gets my vote. Tried to EQ both and 1 got small really quickly.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Dammit, I accidentally voted on #1! Dang touchscreen voting machines...Can we get some paper ballots?

[Berolzheimer]

As always, depends on the needs of the track. I found the transients to be better on #1, they're pretty smeared on #2, but #2 has a silkyness that's kind of pretty too. #1 is a also little boxier in the low mids & a bit more transistory sounding to me.

[T.RayBullard]

1 sounded bigger and more defined to me in that sample..

[The Beatsmith]

they aren't level matched... but... no. 2 (which peaks 0.4db higher than no 1) seemed brighter with more top end, whereas no 1 seemed bassier with less 'sparkle'. which is best? i don't know man... they both sound nice... the difference in recording could easily be attributed to different mic positions or playing techniques or some such.

for a solo recording i'd probably go for no 2 but no 1 if i were recording in a mix. i think no. 1 wound sound best over 'many tracks'.

i have no idea which is more accurate though man.

interested to find out what they are...

cheers

[snappydad]

#2 sounds more detailed, sparkly and open to me. Generally bigger than #1, but the trebles seem kinda harsh. I like the more subdued woody warmth of #1 and definatley could see it being usable depending on what the song asks for. I voted either but if I had to choose it would be #1 or #2.

chafe

[macle]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

they aren't level matched... but... no. 2 (which peaks 0.4db higher than no 1) seemed brighter with more top end, whereas no 1 seemed bassier with less 'sparkle'. which is best? i don't know man... they both sound nice... the difference in recording could easily be attributed to different mic positions or playing techniques or some such.

I tried to match on the average and not the peak (was that wrong?), and tried to play them generally the same and at the same position. I've been checking these 2 preamps a bit, and I think that the differences are pretty consistent as to what these samples show. I suppose if one seems brighter than the other than it might seem louder, right?

interested to find out what they are...

I'll say now that one of them is a well known preamp and the other isn't really known as a preamp at all!

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by macle

I tried to match on the average and not the peak (was that wrong?), and tried to play them generally the same and at the same position. I've been checking these 2 preamps a bit, and I think that the differences are pretty consistent as to what these samples show. I suppose if one seems brighter than the other than it might seem louder, right?

yeah, you should match average rms values really, but it's cool don't worry too much man.

Originally Posted by macle

I'll say now that one of them is a well known preamp and the other isn't really know as a preamp at all!

i guessed as much i guess one is a proper pre and one might be the built in pres in your audio interface

i'm gonna go right ahead and guess no. 1 is the 'good' preamp. from my comparison of rme stuff vs lower stuff, the 'brighter' stuff was often the cheaper stuff, and the rme had more rounded bass, wasn't as sparkly etc. that is ALL i am basing it on lol

honestly, i have no real idea though - i was only checking it out on headphones though

just shows though, that by todays standards, nearly everything is pretty damn good!

look forward to finding out the results.

[Jeraz]

2 gets my vote because of the texture of the upper mids. While it's true that it always depends on the mix, the lower mids in #1 are muddy, the upper mids are not as textured, and it would not be my choice for most mixes without some serious EQ.

Only for reference:

Listened on an RME FF800, KRK monitors

Best,

Mark

[jayjohnsonit]

One is the brighter one right. It seems some posters are mixing them up.

Anyway 2 is good. One is hyped sounding.

Jay

[macle]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

i'm gonna go right ahead and guess no. 1 is the 'good' preamp.

I never said one of the preamps was "good", I said "well known"! (just kidding around, I know what you mean).

from my comparison of rme stuff vs lower stuff, the 'brighter' stuff was often the cheaper stuff, and the rme had more rounded bass, wasn't as sparkly etc. that is ALL i am basing it on lol

Isn't RME an interface?

I suppose it all depends, the cheap preamps I've used have been small and dull, so there you go! My current interface, btw, doesn't have built in preamps.

[macle]

Originally Posted by jayjohnsonit

One is the brighter one right. It seems some posters are mixing them up.

Jay

I don't know that everyone is agreeing on which is brighter, I mean, I guess people are hearing things somewhat differently .

[macle]

Is that it? I thought everyone loved a preamp shootout?

As it stands, I guess preamp 2 is the winner (5 votes to 2 votes, 1 either, and 1 neither! Hey Beatsmith why neither?).

But a little more feedback would be appreciated greatly!!

Thanks very much.

[macle]

Okay, last bump. I know everyone is chomping at the bit to find out what these preamps are, but please please PLEASE settle down. Patience is a virtue. Thank you.

Here's a couple more files for you to entertain yourselves with until the big reveal. Some hastily recorded drums, just an overhead through each world class preamp! Don't everyone download and comment at once. Man this is fun!!

[Harley-OIART]

Thanks for doing this thread. To me personally it just prooves the importance of knowing what context to use what equipment. Sometimes a dull lifeless tone is exactly what the doctor order in a preamp, and othertimes "fast" and detailed is just what u need.

-Thnx dude... care to reveal?

[flail19]

Originally Posted by macle

Okay, last bump. I know everyone is chomping at the bit to find out what these preamps are, but please please PLEASE settle down. Patience is a virtue. Thank you.

Here's a couple more files for you to entertain yourselves with until the big reveal. Some hastily recorded drums, just an overhead through each world class preamp! Don't everyone download and comment at once. Man this is fun!!

Well either way I liked the 2nd one on the guitar but both sound pretty bad in my opinion for the drums. If I had to choose I would say 1 sounds better on the drums.

[Jazzy Alz]

I prefer 1 even though it is less detailed. It is more pleasant to listen to.

2 is louder, brighter and more open. It has less warmth and sounds tinny.

[John Peacock]

Cliche alert!

1. I did not find the differences subtle.

2. Context would determine which one is more appropriate.

Wow! I have heard people say that BS all the time on this board, especially with this type of listening exercise. And I always feel the differences are quite subtle (in the big picture), and context is mostly irrelevant. But not this time.

Number one was much brighter and more forward sounding to me. Number two was a little richer with much less upper mid content, but still a little presence up top. I'd use 1 to cut through a mix. On their own they each have their merit. At the moment I prefer 2, though.

-Jp

[jayjohnsonit]

I like 2 better. It seems different from the last set of clips in that there is more presence where as the last set 1 had more presence, but it seems there is more information in 2 this time. For instance if you do a low pass around 1k drum clip 1 really thins out.

Neither is great though.

Jay

[Ricey]

i'm hearing Number 2 as brighter in both examples. i liked it on the guitar, but i prefer number 1 on the drums.

very interesting test, Macle. thank you!!!

[macle]

Alright, lots of great feedback. Thanks everyone.

Neither is great though (on the drums).

both sound pretty bad in my opinion for the drums.

I suspect this is because the drums themselves, and the recording I did was pretty slapdash, although I still think it points up the differences.

[jayjohnsonit]

You're right number 2 in both is brighter. I was confused.

I think in general both number 2's sound smeared. I little bit of high shelf makes one sound brighter like 2 and it seems tighter.

Now that's my definitive answer.

Jay

[macle]

Okay, so thanks everyone.

Preamp 1: Brent Averill API.

Preamp 2: Echo Layla3g preamps

Final score:

API-4
Layla-13
either-4
neither-1

I wasn't even thinking about preamps, I was checking out the Layla converters. I had been fine with the API preamps.

But I'm amazed at how good these Layla preamps are, not that they are better than the API, although I do think they are better in many ways, but just that they are that good for preamps thrown in on an inexpensive interface.

And so now, I'm thinking that I want a different preamp that sort of splits the difference between these 2 (I can't afford a whole palette, I need 1 that will do the trick). I posted a thread in the High End about API, and I have to say that I'm feeling what many are saying in the negative.

Anyway, thanks very much for the feedback.

[John Peacock]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

i guessed as much i guess one is a proper pre and one might be the built in pres in your audio interface

i'm gonna go right ahead and guess no. 1 is the 'good' preamp.

Wow. Nailed it, Beatsmith.

-Jp

[Mike Jasper]

What kind of mic was used for the acoustic guitar?

Jasper

[theblotted]

don't you know? you're supposed to hype the bad products here so all the noobs will go out and buy'em.. and keep the real good secrets to yourself!

haha... jk.

[macle]

Originally Posted by John Peacock

Wow. Nailed it, Beatsmith.

-Jp

Yeah, he got it exactly right. I sort of pretended he didn't so as to try to not let his assesment influence anyone (technically what I said in reply was all true though. The interface I do use has no preamps, I'm just tryng out this Layla).

Still wonder why he picked neither though.

[macle]

Originally Posted by Mike Jasper

What kind of mic was used for the acoustic guitar?

Jasper

Soundelux U195 for the acoustic and hastily tossed up for the drums, too.

[macle]

Originally Posted by theblotted

don't you know? you're supposed to hype the bad products here so all the noobs will go out and buy'em.. and keep the real good secrets to yourself!

haha... jk.

I'm not sure which is the bad product, the API or the Layla .

Certainly is surprising that the Layla is far and away more popular (on this test), isn't it?

I think it's something.