Importance of a patchbay?

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Pondered and stared blankly at the walls... thinking of the 16-24 channel console... compressors... mic-pres... OB EQs... converters... etc i will eventually be piling into my designated space before years end....


I stopped and thought... it'll be straight forward to patch it all in at the start... when things are tame... but later on it might not be as so tame.... as money gets spent... more things mysteriously venture into the studio... (home-based) . SHOULD i start planning on buying/setting up with a patchbay and build from there or add it when its needed ? if at all.

I guess my question is .... Patchbays - veins of the studio, or a mere convience?


any insight would fall on welcoming ears

Cheers

[joeq]

with the outboard gear you are planning to get, it is a necessity.

if you don't get a patch bay you will not only find yourself crawling around in back of your racks with a flashlight; you will find yourself crawling around in back of your racks with a flashlight and adapter cables.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Hi Rufus13 and joeq


first i would like to start by thanking you both for your replys... ... cheers fellas.


i had the suspicion i should... and with all the points you've both brought up... seems like a no-brainer now...

in regards to that phat tooby compressor... e ... i was actually thinking of killing a few birds with 1 stone by electing to go with maybe a small rack of em.. and now that the 500 series are heating up with ever more compressors ... this patchbay thing might be even more so a no-brainer...

think i will.... thanks again.... and if i may be so lucky as to get your opinions on some tried and true patchbay companies... would mean alot... especially Redco ? or others. quality patchbay?


Cheers again

[tuRnitUpsuM]

BTW ... Rufus13


the comment about guest gear "magic boxes" ... being easier to patch in... was the clincher... ill buy three of what ur sellin' ..

[dbbubba]

I have a rather modest rig, but because I have had a studio of some description for thirty years I have just always had a patchbay.

My current rig could conciebvably be fairly easy to operate w/o a patchbay, but last year I spent several weeks custom wiring snakes and two 96 point TT bays.

I just couldn't imagine not having one.

Danny Brown

[the-oger]

Whatever you do, plan for the future... once you think you have enough spaces left open for future gear purchases, DOUBLE it!

In fact, if you’re not married, TRIPLE it!!! (You ARE a Gearslut, aren’t you?)

I’m going to be looking at a complete p.bay overhaul in the next 6 months… it’ll be my third time in 8 years . Karl, you sure you don’t need a fishing vacation in northern Ontario?

Oger

[firby]

I tried and died setting one up. This is my first good sized board. It's all linked direct now and I crawl around like a goof. It took awhile to figure out the inline console and I just had to get recording. I can't figure out how to do the inserts on out of the back of my Tascam board. They are the send return TRS type. Also I had the feedback squak at me a couple of times due to my suckiness of figuring out how to due half normalled or full normalled or whatever.

Is there a good place to go to look for information on how to do it ? I would like at least auxes, inserts and groups. But this studio is already coming together far too slow.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Hey rufus13

you defintely have a knack for selling the important facts about gear... as i planned on having people add to the studio for some time in return...

wish you were closer to toronto too... id get ya to wire it all up... lol ... beers on me ... Canadian beer (the good stuff) ... ( < is ducking the American beer bottles being thrown)


Hi Danny

cheers for the post...

guessing the patchbay has become a lifeline in your studio... the veins... Danny ? two 96 point ! somebody has a big christmas list


Hi the-oger

a fellow Ontaree-o ee-o ee-o ian ... cheers

not married ... but she's looking at others rings more and more < is scared .... ah hell... double the budget or triple it... same kinda trouble.... ... barkeep make it a triple... ... i like the couch anyhow . HA


Hi firby

i have a feeling i might be heading down the head-scratch road soon too... wish i could help ya... but i'm sure if you give the thread a lil time ... someone will chime in with a helpful trick or too .. ...


Cheers

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Since ive had great help in deciding that a patchbay would be a smart thing to include in budgeting for...

Was wondering if i may switch the main topic to patchbays themselves?

What should one look for in a patchbay?
Helpful tips on hooking up said patchbay (s) ... do's .... dont's....
Anthing really that would be a good guiding point to patchbays.........Cheers all

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Rufus13


is there a ton of trouble that precedes one who does incorperate p48 or mic levels in the patchbay ?

just curious ... i think i have an idea why... but what if one were to have a large array of mic-amps ( some for mic-amplifying... maybe a few for line-levels) and didnt necessarily wanted to re-patch the console if it weren't switchable?

hope that makes sense... i doubt that would include myself... but would be nice to know in any case

Cheers

[drBill]

Ask anyone who sells or equips start up studios what the #1 thing that is under purchased, under considerred, and ultimately causes the most grief.

Answers might be....client amenities, acoustic treatment, staffing issues....but I'd be willing to bet that 98% will say - studio interconnect issues. Of which the patchbay is the heart and soul of.

It's a PITA when you shell out 50k for a console, 30k for outboard, and then realise that you need to spend 15-20k (if someone else mans the soldering iron) to hook it all up. But that's the cold hard reality. No wire....no sound.

I work in composer/home studios all the time where they cheaped out and it invariably ends up with it causing hours of head scratching, stilted creativity, and ultimately - inferior product and sound. You invision things a certain way at the beginning of a studio's life, but it's a living breathing organism that changes - constantly. Either new gear or a different engineer that does thing differently or ??? It's always changing.

Do like oger said and at least double what you think. And don't forget mults! Oh yeah, and don't forget to budget for TT patch cables - several hundred dollars worth! I know....neverending, but that's the price of being a slut isn't it?

Oh yeah, at the risk of getting clobbered again for talking about star grounding systems, as soon as you put in a patchbay, you'd better have a rock solid grounding scheme or prepare for some aging and loss of hair. Another option if you are not into the time consuming tediousness of star grounding is balanced power. You'll need a big enough unit to run the entire studio and any ancillary gear that may come in the door though. And that will be pricey.

Good luck. I'm so, so, so, so thankful that I bit the bullet and did it right the first time!!!!

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Hi drbill


really appreciate the input...


Definitely get the concept of the studio being a living -breathing organism and that if ya start right from the beginning... only smiles from there (in theory... ).

In regards to the grounding ... is that something entirely unto itself...?
Balanced - Star anything specifically about either one that would push it into the forefront? i was under the impression a good patchbay would have its own specific grounding scheme? no? and that in going with a patchbay... you use its grounding as the template for the rest of your set-up ? ... always exceptions but could incorperate them with a sense of calm knowing the rest is uniform.....

the price for being a gearslut never does fluctuate like economy does it.... just always goes up...

Cheers

[drBill]

Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM

In regards to the grounding ... is that something entirely unto itself...?
Balanced - Star anything specifically about either one that would push it into the forefront? i was under the impression a good patchbay would have its own specific grounding scheme? no? and that in going with a patchbay... you use its grounding as the template for the rest of your set-up ? ... always exceptions but could incorperate them with a sense of calm knowing the rest is uniform.....

the price for being a gearslut never does fluctuate like economy does it.... just always goes up...

Cheers

Ahh...the price....LOL You're right there!!!

Here's a thread where I typed a lot and now my fingers are tired. It should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. If that is confusing, then either ask questions here - or better yet - pay a person that does studio installs to consult with you for a couple of hours and lay out how you should approach things. Believe me, it will be the best money you will ever spend. Doing it once is bad enough. Doing it twice (or more)....unthinkable.

Help buying racks for outboard gear...

As you will see, there are differing views on how to accomplish a reliable grounding scheme. My approach is old school and works consistantly in areas where electricity is dirty or clean and in areas where getting a good earth ground is problematic. (New Orleans comes to mind.) It's been confirmed by lots of experienced studio install guys who have been doing this for 30+ years. It works.

There are other ways that work as well, but every situation is different, and much like the studio, it's a living breathing and often cranky organism. Nobody likes a studio with ground issues. Try to get it right the first time.

I remember one situation where a very well known LA composer hired a very well known studio install guy to do his install. I think it cost close to 30k - and that was 10 years ago - to wire and interface everything. At the end of the day....it had big hum issues. The fingers were pointing in every which direction. Ultimately, the console company couldn't warranty the console as "quiet and noise free" because the install guy "knew how to do it" and proceeded to try a different grounding scheme. The bottom line was that the studio owner was bummed and there was always a ground hum that wouldn't go away. No matter what they tried (including transformer balancing). Eventually, on a whim, they plugged everything into a balanced power unit and...poof!....all ground noise....gone. Balanced power is expensive, but often works well. If it works, you can buy off the shelf cabling (without telescoping leads customized for each piece of equipment) and just plug stuff in. If you're really lucky and it all works great....I hate you! LOL

Seriously, the more you can learn about it before you jump in the better. Remember...do it once and only once!!! Bill

[tuRnitUpsuM]

drbill


thanks a bunch... can't stress that enough ...



subscribed to the linked thread... gonna be a long night.... ...


If i get lucky and it all works out great the first time ... ... i'll have input like yours to thank...as well as others... and if it does... you have every right to hate ME ... .... just like i have every right to hate YOU for making me brew yet another pot of coffee.........


Cheers drbill i'll wish myself a slight snag in the setup of patchbay and grounding... not a big one... so you'll dis-like me ... but not hate...


Again Thanks for the time

now give those fingers a rest...lol...my eyes will suffer for two

[seaneldon]

a lot of the time, patchbays are the most logical part of a studio (hopefully).

for a lot of digital studios with not much outboard, and ITB mixing where the audio never goes into the analog domain after it's recorded...it's probably unnecessary. what's the point of spending a grand on a good bay with cabling if you have 2 outboard compressors and one eq that you will never use because your conversion is anything short of excellent? not much of a point at all.

in a studio that is all or mostly analog, something stupid with like 5-10 racks of dynamics, effects, and processors, a 24 track tape deck, and pro tools ins/outs, if there's no patchbay, whoever set up the studio is a complete ****ing idiot.

[drBill]

No problem! If you've got the luxury of time, you might go the balanced power route, get off the shelf cabling one at a time, start plugging stuff in one at a time and hope for the best. But ultimately, you can't go wrong with a star ground studio IMO. It's more of a hassle and more expensive, but if you do it yourself, you'll learn a lot and be able to tweak stuff for minimal ground hum.

BTW, will you have a seperate drop of AC for the home studio or will it be shared with the rest of your house?

If you need the # of a guy that's installed and set up probably a hundred studios who will consult with you for a couple of hours give me a PM and I'll pass on his info for ya! But be prepared, he will not let you cheap out on the method of grounding.

As far as how much patchbay you need......that's a balance between functionality and $$$. If you're operating a pro studio that will have clients you've got to go towards functionality. If it's a home studio, it's all about how much you can tolerate crawing around and repatching stuff behind the racks and sorting out any potential ground issues as they happen. Good luck!

Bill

[tuRnitUpsuM]

hey seaneldon


thanks for the input... all good stuff... had a good chuckle at the last paragraph.... and totally agree.... that many racks of gear and no patchbay... they should be committed immediately.... ....


drbill again :)


really lucky in this place im at now.... it is a home studio planned... but its in a really nice old building.... nice sized rooms.... hard wood flooring , trims, the works... already done... AND ... i have two seperate outlets entirely on their own circuit :):):):) originally installed for dialysis machines.... a good start no? :) you hate me huh


hey rufus13


i'm thinking of the TRS thing ... like my grandfather use to mention now and then to me.... keep 'er simple ... thank you again for all the input and these here links..... definitely come in handy...

cheers to all....