At what frequency do you HPF guitars to make room for bass?
Geddyleewannabe
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#1
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #1
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Geddyleewannabe's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
At what frequency do you HPF guitars to make room for bass?

At what frequency do you usually High Pass Filter your guitar tracks in order to make room in the frequency spectrum for bass guitar so they don't get in each others way and turn the mix into mush?
#2
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #2
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

It depends on how bassy the guitar track is. My approach is to use a high-pass filter set to 12 dB per octave, starting low - around 40 Hz. Then I adjust the frequency higher until the guitar is thin enough. This is easier and probably better than using a low shelf cut where you have to adjust both the amount of cut and the frequency.

--Ethan
#3
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 

Like Ethan,
use your ears!
#4
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Always exactly 117hz. always...every time. Not 116, not 118...117! that's the magic number!

I jest, of course. A lot of time I do not HPF electric guitar at all. If I get a good sound with guitar, amp, and mic, I can often get by with no EQ at all in mix.

Acoustic GTR is more often rolled-off, again, often in mixing, by using the low-cut on the mic or pre.....

....at PRECISELY 117hz.

Nah...just kiddin' again.
#5
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Harley-OIART's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
It depends on how bassy the guitar track is. My approach is to use a high-pass filter set to 12 dB per octave, starting low - around 40 Hz. Then I adjust the frequency higher until the guitar is thin enough. This is easier and probably better than using a low shelf cut where you have to adjust both the amount of cut and the frequency.

--Ethan
What He Said... Also sometimes I get bored and switch from LPF to Low Shelf, and starting with massive Cut so it basically is a LPF @ whatever dB per 8va and then slowly re-introduce some of the cut signal. I usually don't end up using it but sometime its usable.thumbsup
#6
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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robmix's Avatar
Pretty much what Ethan said, but I like to hear a little girth in my guitar tracks. Usually ends up being somewhere between 100hz and 200hz.
#7
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Studiocat's Avatar
 

yep. what he said ^^^
#8
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

I usually don't HP the guitars. Make sure you leave enough dynamics and not squeeze them to death. With dynamics intact, I find it much easier to make the guitars coextist happily with the other various low frequency parts.



ruudman
#9
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Anywhere from none to maybe 150Hz on the rhythm guitars...

Solos & ear candy bits might get a high pass all the way up to 400Hz or so.

I just use my ears...when it sounds like enough bottom has come off then I stop turning those knobs!
#10
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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six_wax's Avatar
 

I did something wacky last night: I rolled off the bass pretty considerably at the amp and got a nice balanced mixable sound coming out. Oddly, it came through the mic pretty much sounding like a record.

I'll be damned; maybe I'm learning.
#11
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #11
Gear maniac
 

I record lots of metalhead guitar players....think chugga chugga. Im fond of making a copy of the guitar track, delaying the copy & hard panning original & copy L & R. When I do this there is almost always a nasty build up of low end boominess unless I lop off everything below 135hz. This takes care of the build up & leaves room for the bass & kick to groove, while leaving the guitar sounding solid & thick.
#12
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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Gregg Sartiano's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Anywhere from none to maybe 150Hz on the rhythm guitars...

Solos & ear candy bits might get a high pass all the way up to 400Hz or so.
Same here -- maybe 200 on a dense mix. More or less depends on how much room needs to be created in the mix -- also on detuning or capoing (which raises/lowers where the fundamentals are), so context is king.
#13
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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jeronimo's Avatar
Same thing here:
Depends on each project, but, I´ll never leave anything under 80hz on the guitar.
Most of the time it´s around 100/150hz.
I do rock/metal/alternative 100% of the time. Sometimes tunned down to B
#14
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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desol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddyleewannabe
At what frequency do you usually High Pass Filter your guitar tracks in order to make room in the frequency spectrum for bass guitar so they don't get in each others way and turn the mix into mush?

It depends on how things were originally recorded. If the guitars are recorded too thin...then you have to ADD low end.... The point is that there's no rule...you do what you need to do to make it sound good. Period.

Obviously 30 hz on a guitar won't do much....so you could definately HP from 60-80 and down...

*** I just saw that Ethan basically stated this...

The eq is a tool...like a knife. Use it to shape things to your liking.
#15
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
  #15
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

Yea come to think of it I don't think I have every done it the same twice. Sometimes I don't have to do any thing to them. Those a the "aaaaa want a sound" times in recording.

Glenn
#16
25th July 2006
Old 25th July 2006
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TanTan's Avatar
 

40 \ 70 \ 160Hz when using Neve, and between 80-150Hz with a plugin
#17
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #17
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmix
Usually ends up being somewhere between 100hz and 200hz.

Same for me.
#18
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #18
Gear addict
 

If you're experiencing troubles in separating guitars and bass, sometimes it is useful to give them different lo mids space (by cutting/boosting different freq in the 100-600 Hz area).
I never found any guitar with useful information under 100 that I considered a guitar. If it needs that bottom, then I just think of it as a bass in the mix. Pretty much the same way I treat like "percussion" the 'drums+conga+tamborine+acoustic guitar+rhythm strat+jumpy piano' combo. This way you never have more than 4 or 5 elements in a mix and you have a better perspective. For me it works way better than just "guitars", "drums", ....

J.
#19
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #19
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C_F_H_13's Avatar
 

Usually either around 100hz with a 12db/octave or 60-80 if it's steeper (sony oxford 36db/octave sometimes). I personally never go higher than 100hz, cause I just like the low end on guitars!!! I agree with SPUT that doing more in the 100-600 range with judicious cuts and boosts will help with the blending alot, but I really feel there is nothing useful below 60hz on guitars...most of the time...
#20
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #20
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

I usually leave it alone unless I hear a problem.

Which is almost never.

I'm sure it cleans things up, but I never seem to have a problem hearing the Bass Guitar.

Although sometimes I do need to make the Bass louder.

I have a fader for those situations.
#21
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #21
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recky's Avatar
 

I like recording guitars with old ElectroVoice mics (635a or RE15) which do not suffer from proximity effect - thus, no bass build-up to start with.

Cheers,

Recky
#22
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #22
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
I have a fader for those situations.
thumbsup


ruudman
#23
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
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Dog_Chao_Chao's Avatar
 

It depends. But usually the problem starts when you compress the guitar too much or at all. Lately, I´m leaving the guitar tracks untouched and they seem to sound better this way. No compression, no eq, just ride the fader! Still, it depends on the kind of music and number/density of guitar sounds.

I might cut a bit of bass low freq. to make space for kick though.
#24
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #24
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Why is anyone compressing Electric Guitars?

Have you ever looked at their waveform?

They're pretty flat.

I don't get it.
#25
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
Why is anyone compressing Electric Guitars?

Have you ever looked at their waveform?

They're pretty flat.

I don't get it.


Maybe the player sucks? Maybe it's not distorted balls to the wall guitars? Maybe they like the sound of compressed guitar tracks?
#26
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #26
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
Why is anyone compressing Electric Guitars?

Have you ever looked at their waveform?

They're pretty flat.

I don't get it.
I don't do this as often as I used to, but I sometimes compress clean electric and lead solos. Distorted rhythm guitar is already compressed coming out of the speakers, but I do like to smooth out a lead solo. I do it not in tracking but in mix.

Not surprisingly, I use the the same comp for the lead guitar solo as I do for the lead vocal (not the EXACT same comp, but the same make/model).

Can you guess which classic Levelling Amplifier I use? Go ahead! Take a guess!
#27
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #27
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not_so_new's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
Why is anyone compressing Electric Guitars?

Have you ever looked at their waveform?

They're pretty flat.

I don't get it.
I agree 100% for heavy guitar for sure. Now janglely funk or country, all bets are off.
#28
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #28
Gear nut
 

Hey all. All i can say is Thank God for automation. Did engineers used to have to manually ride EQ cuts when, say, the extremely hpf guitars from the chorus suddenly need that bass back because they're almost solo'd out in another section? Well, maybe they just threw that section on another track..I just know that when I usually make distorted elec eq cuts, it'll usually sound funny when they hang over the edge of a chorus or something into the verse and you can hear the cut.. thoughts? i'll usually just automate the eq in that scenario.
#29
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #29
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not_so_new's Avatar
 

I reach for a 60 Hz roll off on a few things including guitar almost instinctively now days.

Depending on the guit / amp, song, player, band and phase of the moon I might just leave the guitar track at that. If it is needed I might go as high as 200 Hz but that is really the top of what I find useful. Anything after that and I think the guitar suffers. Normally I end up with a -4 or -5 shelf around 100 to 150 Hz if I touch it at all after the original 60 Hz I started with.
#30
26th July 2006
Old 26th July 2006
  #30
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
I
Can you guess which classic Levelling Amplifier I use? Go ahead! Take a guess!


Since you called it a "levelling amplifier"...

I know someone else who does this...
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