Building a Studio- HELP PLEASE

[killahjamez]

Hey slutz....I am going to get right to the point. I just got a small business loan and I am building a studio. I have 20 thousand to spend on gear from top to bottom. i was thinking of going with pro tools hd but now i'm not so sure... i want to put together the best sounding set up i can for that price so if you slutz have any suggestions pleas let me have some! Please be as specific as possible thanks in advance

[joelpatterson]

Take a few seconds and think about what kind of niche you're going to aim for.

The future is all in portability. Cheap mics will work ample wonders. Hone in on a special market that you can serve better than anyone else.

Gear is awfully interchangeable and in the end, the real thing that matters is your initiative and reliability and trustworthiness... so it's really all about the things money can't buy.

[drummerboy1533]

Twenty bones will slip through your greedy little finger pretty fast.(I WISH I had taken your approach and asked here befor I got started!).Everyone is gonna say to get really good FRONT END gear:Mics(Ribbons,LCD/SCD pairs,dynamics too!),pres,compressors,converters-all good outboard stuff.And don't forget the Adams monitors!OK,that about does it for HALF the list I just mentioned...

[stevep]

i dont think you can even get a HD rig for 20.000 new......


do you have to do any construction ?


Accoustic treatment ?

[stevep]

Originally Posted by drummerboy1533

Twenty bones will slip through your greedy little finger pretty fast.(I WISH I had taken your approach and asked here befor I got started!).Everyone is gonna say to get really good FRONT END gear:Mics(Ribbons,LCD/SCD pairs,dynamics too!),pres,compressors,converters-all good outboard stuff.And don't forget the Adams monitors!OK,that about does it for HALF the list I just mentioned...

i would say spend the most you can afford on the room

but without more info we are just guessing,

This could be anywhere from a bedroom to a pro studio......





.

[djui5]

yeah, an HD rig would eat your $20,000 for breakfast

[lawrence_o]

How many channels do you require?
Do you intend to be interoperable with other studios? (If so you'll need PT, else, you don't)

Buy a Mac Quad G5 (3k), buy Logic Audio Pro 7.(1k)

If you are going to mix ITB, get a Benchmark DAC (2-channels in-out) or a Prism ADA-2 or similar. (1k or less)

Get a plug-in bundle that includes almost all you need e.g. Waves Platinum(2,5k). I want to avoid the discussion here about other better plugs, point is, platinum bundle is pretty complete for that budget and doesn't sound bad at all! If you can still afford it, get the waves SSL bundle. (1k)

Get the TL convolution verb and autotune. (1k)

Get ACTIVE monitors, quested, Genelec, that sort of stuff. This will cost ya another 3,5k but good monitors are VERY important.

People say the room is so important. I disagree. I have a standard room of 4 by 4 as vocal booth and another 4 by 5 meters as control room. I just glued FireFlex against the walls to absorb sound waves and it sounds very good. FireFlex costs about 40USD per square meter.

Get a Mic. Search for the Haifeng SYT-2, a chinese Mic which I can get you for 430euro ex VAT. It sounds better than an expensive Neumann, really! I have enough friends who have both and stick with the chinese Mic. Get a FocusRite Red series Mic Pre on eBay. Look for a Red7. It has Compressor and Mic Pre and Exciter or De-esser in one unit!! They are VERY good and I paid only 1350 USD !! It is in perfect condition! If you want to record electric guitars, get a Shure SM57 for around 80-100 USD.

If you go for the Benchmark DAC, you'll have a volume regulator that can control the level to your speakers. Else, you might need a very small analogue console that serves only this purpose... Something like a Mackie 1402VLZ or even smaller.

I think you're done and you've got money left. You might want to spend the remaining money buying an Eventide H8000FW which not only serves as effect unit, it can be used as ADDA too and feed a few additional channels. It has some presets that will make your vocals sound bloody awesome and wide!

That's what I would do and I know I would be able to deliver mixes that sound like a hit record! Really! Please don't shoot me when the prices are a bit off, I mentioned what I know some are and think some others are. Might be a little different though.

Cheers
Lawrence.

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by djui5

yeah, an HD rig would eat your $20,000 for breakfast

If you go for the HD3 Accel, yes. But if he doesn't need all those channels, HD1 with a single 96I would already be enough. Still, getting Logic instead and running it on the Mac Quad, will when used in conjuntion with a good ADDA like the Benchmark DAC, sound equally good if not better. The Mac G5 Quad is very powerfull! I sometimes run 12 Autotunes real-time, on the G5 and the Activity monitor says 75% idle!!! ANd besides that, there are a few verbs running natively and some other shit as well so you really don't need Pro Tools.

For the plugs, they run all native as well these days...

If I was him, I'd start with the G5 and if ever I get it on its knees, I might consider PT HD but by then, I would have had more experience ans know better where I would want to go...


Cheers.
LAwrence

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by stevep

but without more info we are just guessing,

This could be anywhere from a bedroom to a pro studio......
.

Haha you're right actually but funny how you said it :-)

A guy from the O.C.? Cool. Looking at the series on TV. Sure seems like an nice place on the world compared with the shithole I'm in, (Belgium you know )

Cheers
Lawrence.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by stevep

i dont think you can even get a HD rig for 20.000 new......

What ??? Where do you guys get this shi*t ? Have you ever even priced and HD system ?

Regardless, find out who your client base is. What the competition has, and how much they're booked. Like Joel said, what's your niche ? HD may not be the best place to spend your money, but until you know who your market is no one here can really help you.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by lawrence_o

...... so you really don't need Pro Tools.

Unless everyone of your clients is running PT. See above - who are your clients and what do they expect you to have ?

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by robmix

Unless everyone of your clients is running PT. See above - who are your clients and what do they expect you to have ?

Unless he's immediately going to record Pearl Jam, Madonna, Prince etc I don't think his clients will care much about what DAW he is using. I never had a client asking me what I was using. They just make decisions based on my previous work they heard. And some of it really sounded like shit but nevertheless made it to the charts and the composition was okay.

Then again, even if he goes Logic, it would not be impossible to port to PT, it would just be a bit harder ;-)

I guess the poster needs to clarify a bit on his target group...


Cheers.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by lawrence_o

Unless he's immediately going to record Pearl Jam, Madonna, Prince etc I don't think his clients will care much about what DAW he is using. I never had a client asking me what I was using. They just make decisions based on my previous work they heard. And some of it really sounded like shit but nevertheless made it to the charts and the composition was okay.

Then again, even if he goes Logic, it would not be impossible to port to PT, it would just be a bit harder ;-)

I guess the poster needs to clarify a bit on his target group...


Cheers.

My clients generally don't care what I use either, but since the majority of my market uses PT it would be absolutely foolish to not have a PT system in my room. I would lose work without it. That's all I'm saying, identify your client base and the answer may become very clear.

Of course you can transfer files between DAW's but personally, I don't have enough hours in the day to finish what work I have, a couple hours of transfers each day would kill me. It's one extra step I can live without.


.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by robmix

What ??? Where do you guys get this shi*t ? Have you ever even priced and HD system ?

HD3 accel $13,995.00 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PTCoreHD3Ac/

1 192 Interface $3,995.00 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/192io

1 A/D Expansion card $1,295.00 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/192AD

1 G5 Dual 2Ghz with 1.5 GB ram $1,800 (e-bay,GS,whatever)

1 19" Monitor $400

Total so far, $21,485

This is before adding plug-ins, mic's, monitors, etc. I realize these are "retail" prices, but it proves a point. HD2 is only $10,995.00, and that would help a lot, but still, depending on what your doing, $20,000 goes really really fast.

[stevep]

robmix .What ??? Where do you guys get this shi*t ? Have you ever even priced and HD system ?

The" New "system i was thinking about would be a G5 Ptools HD accel 3 , G5 mac,
2 ext drives , 2 apogee 16X DA / AD w XHD cards , a good monitor , and a few plugs .

I didn't think about it but he could probably get by with cheaper converters , and less DA channels.


Again what kind of studio ..................

[Radioking]

Killahjamez really needs to provide some more information regarding what he intends to do with his studio.

I would however disagree that spending a significant amount of your budget on software plugins is a good idea. Well, at least it isn't what I would do. In my studio all the outboard hardware gets used all the time whereas, out of the hundreds of pounds that I have spent on software (NI Komplete,Stylus,Autotune,VCLP, etc), most of it is sitting on the shelf un-installed. The only software that I keep uptodate is logic and the sonalksis comp. I know that I should get all these plugins installed but the cost of upgrading puts me off and frankly the clients just don't care what plugin delay etc that I use. What does impress my clients is seeing their Voice/guitar/whatever being passed through a class valve compressor or being able to push faders on the Neotek.

If I could only get all the money that I have spent on software back and use it to buy a 1176 I would be a happy man.

Good luck Killahjamez

http://www.myspace.com/pressplaystudios

[stevep]

Radioking If I could only get all the money that I have spent on software back and use it to buy a 1176 I would be a happy man.

.

[manning1]

jamez....
heres my 2 cents cdn fwiw.
unless you have a major label record deal or lots of clients you KNOW will provide you with revenue i would be wary spending 20k.
why ??
just too many studios around with great gear offering low rates to record in.
in summary a very competitive biz.
you might want to read this thread from folks whove set up daw's...
http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/sh...page=0&fpart=1
youll glean a lot of info .
if you have no experience running recording gear, and want to do your own
songs for your own pleasure and maybe record the odd paying friend/customer.for 2k buks total get an amd 64 pc with 1 gig ram and two 16mb cache hard drives. add a firepod for the sound device.
and there are many other low cost good quality sound devices out there.
(sound device quality is KEY music123.com has a list).
install powertracks that i use. (you wont find better. without spending wads of money. this gives you 48 tracks. pgmusic.com for demo. plus also grab reaper from cockos.com its free right now. both together will give you a vast array of recording features/fx). then of course mics and monitoring.
suggest you look at cad mics and yorkville speakers.
total should be less than 3k. AND I ASSURE YOU , YOU'LL get excellent sound quality if you get the right sound device. Invest the other 17k and in 20 yrs youll have prolly a quarter mill for retirement. peace.
ps...if you search under my name there are lots of other tips ive posted in past to save retyping. BUT THE SOUND DEVICE SOUND QUALITY IS THE NUB OF THE EXCERCISE. plus well treated room as others have said.peace.

[killahjamez]

Thanks guys for all the insight ....someone asked if I had to spend any money on my space and acoustics the answer is no...the recording space has already been set up and treated so all I need is the gear...I would like something versitile but I will mostly be recording R&B,hip hop,Gospel,and pop and some spoken word i get a few rock bands but very rare

[killahjamez]

Well slutz the reason I was thinking of going with pro tools set up is becasue most of my clients seem to know medium ..I mean i have had a ton of clients who have no idea what they are doing but they wanna know if your using pro tools...and some of these guys its there first time in a studio and some have an le set up or an mbox sooo......

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by killahjamez

Thanks guys for all the insight ....someone asked if I had to spend any money on my space and acoustics the answer is no...the recording space has already been set up and treated so all I need is the gear...I would like something versitile but I will mostly be recording R&B,hip hop,Gospel,and pop and some spoken word i get a few rock bands but very rare

Do you know how it is treated? I walk into studios all the time that are set up wrong. Room treatment is your number 1 thing that has to be right. All those nice mics, pres and what ever is just going to sound like crap in a crappy room.

Glenn

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by Radioking

In my studio all the outboard hardware gets used all the time whereas, out of the hundreds of pounds that I have spent on software (NI Komplete,Stylus,Autotune,VCLP, etc), most of it is sitting on the shelf un-installed. The only software that I keep uptodate is logic and the sonalksis comp. I know that I should get all these plugins installed but the cost of upgrading puts me off and frankly the clients just don't care what plugin delay etc that I use. What does impress my clients is seeing their Voice/guitar/whatever being passed through a class valve compressor or being able to push faders on the Neotek.

If I could only get all the money that I have spent on software back and use it to buy a 1176 I would be a happy man.
http://www.myspace.com/pressplaystudios

Tell that to Charles Dye.

Althoug I agree outboard still outperforms Plugs in many cases, thing is, 20k isn't going to buy you much outboard when you first need to get a computer and a screen, a sequencer being Logic or PT. Then again, outboard requiers more AD/DA of high quality to get the outboard quality excess up its level. You can't get that with that budget... He could get outboard as the Eve H8000FW though which is connectable over FireWire so no need for any ADDA. And it's got over 1500 presets and can act as ADDA as well... Maybe he could use that unit as an FXProc/ADDAc hybrid?


Cheers.

[Junkie]

what size recordings we looking at? I quite like the Otari Status 18r, (40 channels) fully inline with the whole she-bang etc. or get a smaller decent desk (soundtracs for example) then get a few preamps to fill the rest of the interfaces up.
i think a good idea would to invest in PT, a decent controller (control 24 for example) and have a couple of nice interfaces as insert points for decent outboard, be a good compromise for mixing ITB with outboard, and wont cost a truck load.

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by myfipie

Do you know how it is treated? I walk into studios all the time that are set up wrong. Room treatment is your number 1 thing that has to be right. All those nice mics, pres and what ever is just going to sound like crap in a crappy room.

Glenn

Glenn, no offense but that's not necessarily true. Okay, my room was naked for a few weeks meaning only the concrete and plaster against the wall and yes, that sounded like shit. I mean, I was recording a LOT of room through the mics and that screwed up a few recordings. But, once I found the time, I simply glued some FireFlex against the wall, you know, these things that look like the inside of a flightcase only its treated to resist fire and I got no more problems now. Booth sounds dry. I'm talking about a vocal booth, not about a live room!! Maybe you are talking about such a room?

All I'm saying is that it doesn't necessarily need an architect to come and measure the vibes and then present you the 10grand bill. I'm only saying that in most cases you can make a room adequate yourself taking simple measures.

Greets
Lawrence

[lawrence_o]

Originally Posted by killahjamez

Thanks guys for all the insight ....someone asked if I had to spend any money on my space and acoustics the answer is no...the recording space has already been set up and treated so all I need is the gear...I would like something versitile but I will mostly be recording R&B,hip hop,Gospel,and pop and some spoken word i get a few rock bands but very rare

Okay, go for a HD1 or 2 Accel. Get a 192IO and later a superclock. The 192 isn't really a top-end converter but it'll do. Get a plug-in bundle and make some money. Later, invest that into maybe some outboard gear like an H8000FW which is a very versatille unit and offers 2 machines in 1 box.

Good luck.

[dubrichie]

don't mean to hijakc but...

glenn,

just wondering if you have received my email enquiry for a quote for a large order of your products?

it was sent on the 12th of july from resolutionrecordings@gmail.com

would appreciate your getting in touch.

thanks,

regards,

richie.