Planning for a patchbay...

timotheus · 24th July 2006

I'm looking into setting up a patchbay for my studio.

First I'll summarize what I've learned.

Balanced cabling/connections, like ethernet cabling, cancels out most RFI/EMI picked up by the cable, (Less added noise when the signa is recieved.)

Unbalanced cabling works fine for short runs, Especially if you are careful about not running power parallel to audio. The actual circuitry inside mixers FX boxes Etc. operates on unbalanced signals. Only the Input/output path is balanced.

You can connect unbalanced sources/destinations to a balanced patchbay without problems.

For the record, I use a Mackie CFX 12 mixer. All connectors are on the top, so there's no need to run everything into a patchbay

Question:

1. I'm going to connect FX units to the back, (Open or De-normal) and the mixer to the front via something like this insert cable, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CYM103/ Should I even bother running balanced cables between the patchbay and the FX units?

Jacklynn · 24th July 2006

Where it gets a bit tricky is when you start getting into using inserts.

Here is my current dilema in planning my new bay for my Toft ATB when I get it of course.

This mixer, like a lot of mixers that are not of the elitist level, use a sinlge TRS connection for the insert where the insert cable is a Y cable, having a single 1/4" TRS balanced connector at one end that splits (Y) into two 1/4" TS, unblanced connectors. The way this works on the insert is that the send signal travels along the Tip of the Tip-Ring-Sleeve (TRS) and the return signal travels along the Sleeve, the Ring of course acts as the ground to make this a balanced connection.

Where we get into problems is that a lot of our better outboard gear that we may want to insert such a compressor (Portico 5043) or Equalizer (Chandler LTD-1) have only XLR balanced type connections on them which will get plugged into a standard 1/4" TRS type patchbay using XLR to TRS type cable connections. No prblem.

The problem is that the insert send and return coming from the mixer are unbalanced; plugging them into a balanced TRS patchbay is fine of course but patching these unbalanced send and return signals to the balanced input and output patch points of our balanced only outboard gear results in what????

This is a problem that needs to be addressed bigtime. There is a huge interface problem using high end outboard gear with balanced only connections with most mixing boards that use unbalanced insert send and return signals.

24th July 2006	#1
timotheus Gear Head Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 35 Thread Starter	Planning for a patchbay... I'm looking into setting up a patchbay for my studio. First I'll summarize what I've learned. Balanced cabling/connections, like ethernet cabling, cancels out most RFI/EMI picked up by the cable, (Less added noise when the signa is recieved.) Unbalanced cabling works fine for short runs, Especially if you are careful about not running power parallel to audio. The actual circuitry inside mixers FX boxes Etc. operates on unbalanced signals. Only the Input/output path is balanced. You can connect unbalanced sources/destinations to a balanced patchbay without problems. For the record, I use a Mackie CFX 12 mixer. All connectors are on the top, so there's no need to run everything into a patchbay Question: 1. I'm going to connect FX units to the back, (Open or De-normal) and the mixer to the front via something like this insert cable, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CYM103/ Should I even bother running balanced cables between the patchbay and the FX units?

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24th July 2006	#2
Jacklynn Gear nut Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 140	Where it gets a bit tricky is when you start getting into using inserts. Here is my current dilema in planning my new bay for my Toft ATB when I get it of course. This mixer, like a lot of mixers that are not of the elitist level, use a sinlge TRS connection for the insert where the insert cable is a Y cable, having a single 1/4" TRS balanced connector at one end that splits (Y) into two 1/4" TS, unblanced connectors. The way this works on the insert is that the send signal travels along the Tip of the Tip-Ring-Sleeve (TRS) and the return signal travels along the Sleeve, the Ring of course acts as the ground to make this a balanced connection. Where we get into problems is that a lot of our better outboard gear that we may want to insert such a compressor (Portico 5043) or Equalizer (Chandler LTD-1) have only XLR balanced type connections on them which will get plugged into a standard 1/4" TRS type patchbay using XLR to TRS type cable connections. No prblem. The problem is that the insert send and return coming from the mixer are unbalanced; plugging them into a balanced TRS patchbay is fine of course but patching these unbalanced send and return signals to the balanced input and output patch points of our balanced only outboard gear results in what???? This is a problem that needs to be addressed bigtime. There is a huge interface problem using high end outboard gear with balanced only connections with most mixing boards that use unbalanced insert send and return signals.