mix bus compressor settings

[kevinc]

I was wondering if anyone had some basic guidelines for mix bus and or mastering compressor settings. Up until now I`ve just been winging it with o.k. results but I never know if Im really doing it right. It seems like individual instruments settings are a lot easier to judge.
Thanks
Kevin

[e-cue]

Uhm, I'll try and give it a stab.

Rules:
Slow attack, Fast release.
Don't take off more than 3 db.

Now. Break the rules.

It totally depends on the program material. You might not even need any compression at all. I think a/b'ing to songs you like the sound of and know really good will be helpful to you.

[jazzius]

Depends what kind of sound you're going for..........

[jazzius]

What kind of sound are you going for?

[RKrizman]

Cranesong STC-8. Setting "C". Barely wiggling.

That's why they pay me the big ones....

-R

[kevinc]

Im into alot of old funk, Jazz, and reggae. Im not looking to squash the shit out of the mix but more just add a little glue. I like to hear dynamics in the music. Does that answer your question Jazzius.
Thanks
Kevin

[kevinc]

Another question.
I only have a few high end compressors (vari mu and fatso) which I like to use during mixdown on various instruments and vocals. Am I better off compressing during mastering just so i can utilize the compressors on the tracks or should I sacrifice the vari mu for the mix bus. I heard its a safer bet to have the 2 bus compressor on the 2-buss from the onset of the mix.
Thanks
Kevin

[jazzius II]

eeerrrrmmmm......

[studjo]

If you don't have enough compressors for the individual tracks don't think about 2-bus compression. Use the nice comps you have on the important tracks and let the mastering engineer work the 2.
2-bus compression is nice but it's also way overrated IMNSHO

Jo

[Bob Olhsson]

What I've always done is to get as good a mix together as I can without anything on the stereo bus. Then I put a couple dB of compression on and touch up the balances. Then, often as not, I'll take the compression off and print the mix that way. It doesn't always work but when it does, the balance will sound pretty much the same no matter what happens to it down the line.

Just mix it with your comps on the track they are needed.
Then, use them on the master.

I find that I do a better job when I master
after I mix. Most times days later.
And I get all my gear both times!!!!
Whoo hooo!!!!!!

D

[doug_hti]

what format are you mixing on?

With only two things, I would not dedicate them to live processing. I would print submixes or elements that you want. It DEFINATELY can turn into a guessing game, but if you start with the most important elements to you, whether it's vocals or drums and get the result you want, then build the mix around that, you will have much better results in my opinion (if the elements need it to begin with)!!!

As far as the two mix, if you are submixing and printing through comps and got your dynamics under control, most of the time I wouldn't bother to do another additional ADDA at that point by putting a comp on the 2 bus.

But in the "mastering" stage, that sounds like you are doing...on another session (file) of the printed/bounced two track, I would run it out again to at least the vari mu for limiting/compression. If your intention is to limit, don't be afraid to use the compressor on the VariMu. I seem to get better easier/smoother results compressing then limiting on the Mu and hitting AD a bit hot, RED, yes red. Don't be afraid to see some red lights, but listen very very carefully for any artifacts. If you knew how much some mastering guys are hitting their converters, you'd freak, but it typically sounds much better and open than putting on a L2 with a low threshhold. Now when I use the L2, my threshold is anywhere from -1 to -.4.

Good luck

[kevinc]

I track to an alesis hdr 24 via Apogee psx100. Then I dumpit into nuendo. I primarily use nuendo for the automation but I also have a Uad-1 card. I like to send this out the converters on the hdr 24 (clocked to the psx) and through various outboard on the way to my Speck Xtramix. I know the converters ain`t so hot on the hdr but i still prefer it to mixing all in the computer. I don`t like playing with the latency involved with running things through outboard in and out of nuendo. I also think it sounds better whether it be the old daw summing buss argument or just the fact that Im using outboard compessers and eq that are adding something to the signal in a good way.
Thanks for all your posts
Kevin

[Kenny Gioia]

I highly recomend to anyone who prefers to leave the bus compression off:

It's always a good idea to put your mix thru a decent compressor to hear what it does to the mix. You can then take it off if you don't like it but you should be aware of what it would do to your mix. Radio and TV are gonna add it anyway. Think of it as hearing your mix on another pair of speakers.

I'm a big promoter of strong two buss compression. The more you do when you mix, the greater chance you have of having your mix sound like your mix after mastering and Radio Play.

My 2¢

[Curve Dominant]

MIX BUS COMPRESSION IS FUN-DAMENTAL!!!

Repeat that 100 times!

It's fun! It's Fun-ky. Explore ways you can make your mixes groovalicious, for radio, for the club, for your friends and family, by compressing that mix.

It's fundamental! Heed Produceher's advice, and see how mix bus compression will save you interminable headaches when your mixes get translated to radio, TV, film, DJ parties, etc.

Personally, I love the whole process of mix bus compression. It's a puzzle, a pickle, like stepping barefoot over broken glass.

I like Bob Olhsson's approach personally: Mix without it, then mix with it.

But I would add: Then abuse it. Try mixing against the mix bus compression. Boost that lead vocal against the mix. Then boost that kick drum for some "pump." Kick up that rhythm guitar track you find is so essential to the vibe of the mix, and see how that makes the mix bus compressor ebb and flow.

Just make sure you do a Save As before you do all that, because you can seriously **** up a decent mix with these sorts of shenanigans, and if you do (**** it up), you'll want to go back to square one.

Some songs will love lots of mix bus compression abuse. Others won't want to be touched by it. What does the song want to be?

I've compressed some songs to -5db, and others barely scratching -1db.

Intuition is key. Trust your artistic sensibility completely.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
MIX BUS COMPRESSION IS FUN-DAMENTAL!!!

Repeat that 100 times!

It's fun! It's Fun-ky. Explore ways you can make your mixes groovalicious, for radio, for the club, for your friends and family, by compressing that mix.

In which one of your 20 minutes of experience did you come to this epiphany?

[jazzius II]

If you want your mix to sound compressed, then the most sensible place to do it is in the mix........'cause the 2 squeeze will effect how the mix sounds.....

.....a cool sound is to push your kick and snare up into the threshold with a fast attack/release....so they bounce the mix (this is an exciting sound IMO but not applicable to all styles).......but turning the 2-squeeze off will leave the mix sounding some-what silly (kick and snare way too loud)....see my point?.....

.....the problem is the majority of mix-meisters don't really know how to put the squeeze on.......commonly too slow release......so the comp just dulls the mix....but it still doesn't change the fact that all other things being equal, the mix stage is the time to do it...

of course it only takes a few minutes to do an xtra pass with no 2 buss processing.......safe and sensible....i have a few clients who do this....mix thru a comp but bring an un-compressed version......this is a cool way to do it.....

[Curve Dominant]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
MIX BUS COMPRESSION IS FUN-DAMENTAL!!!

Repeat that 100 times!

It's fun! It's Fun-ky. Explore ways you can make your mixes groovalicious, for radio, for the club, for your friends and family, by compressing that mix.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


In which one of your 20 minutes of experience did you come to this epiphany?



__________________
Fletcher

Fletcher,

20 minutes is merely 25% longer than 15 minutes. You never struck me as the jealous type, but perhaps I've read you wrong. It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it. You're not getting old on us now, are you??

You cry tough, but you don't pull down your soul. Maybe you just need another shot of rock & roll.

Don't front like the game don't change. The only fool you fool is you, good brother.

[patrox247]

I too own a Vari-Mu and have learned over the years to use it wherever possible. Even if you're barely hitting the compressor go ahead and get that flavor. With the Vari-Mu I like a slower attack and a medium release on the 2 bus however every mix is unique so it's hard to speculate about settings (especialy compresion).

[bopmachine]

Second the Vari Mu compressor for the 2-bus. I use a "vintage" RCA program compressor there. I'd tell you my settings, but they always change by the song.

[deneris]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

Fletcher,

20 minutes is merely 25% longer than 15 minutes. You never struck me as the jealous type, but perhaps I've read you wrong. It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it. You're not getting old on us now, are you??

You cry tough, but you don't pull down your soul. Maybe you just need another shot of rock & roll.

Don't front like the game don't change. The only fool you fool is you, good brother.

Uh, isn't it 33% longer?

[bcslaam]

I recently did an electronica album where I mixed with buss comp on (also off for comparison) and then took it off printed it (with no overs) and sent it to a well known big mastering house in UK. It came back with literally thousands of one sample overs, hundreds of 2 sample overs and at least 2 three sample overs!

When I asked the engineer what was going on he said that they had their systems set up to receive mixes that were a lot hotter than mine with a lot less dynamic range. He said most of them use buss compression to achieve this. If I wanted to avoid any overs our mix would come back 4db or more quieter than the norm.

I said dont you have analog limiters etc in the chain to bring it back up before AD. He said they dont use them that way. And said their method is compromised if they have to insert any extra limiters or comps. Part of their sound was to push the AD into the red considerably.

This astounded me. I accepted his call and went with a little less push just so it wasn't harsh.

It seems mastering houses expect hot mixes with less dynamic range for pop genres. ie use a buss comp!!

[N. Michael]

I said dont you have analog limiters etc in the chain to bring it back up before AD. He said they dont use them that way. And said their method is compromised if they have to insert any extra limiters or comps. Part of their sound was to push the AD into the red considerably.

Part of their sound must be marbles rolling around in a tin can, because that many overs (to me) is just plain negligent and who cares if their method is compromised if it sounds like shit. If we all received a nickel for every project that a mastering engineer fried in the last 10 years we could all afford new API consoles.

One example... Foo Fighters (Echoes, Silence, Patience & Grace) I can't even listen to it. Good songs, but the mastering! AARRRGgHHHhhh. This is one of the problems with the current state of production geared towards IPods. I can only imagine the gear the label had available to them since it was mastered at Bernie Grundman in Hollywood. What the hell happened? This record is thin and crispy with no depth (front to back). There is also some serious sibilance on one song that blows... but still this album is one of their best sellers to date. It sounds like aluminum foil is wrapped over an ear bud and jammed into my ear canal under my wool hat.

To hit the original question...

One of my favorite methods is no comp on the mix, print to a 2 track analog mix down machine. It is tricky sometimes, but my ears like it. If I hit it just right, not too hot, I get the so-called glue. Then some light limiting during mastering after I transfer to digital. If you are not into tape, then a mix buss comp with a starting point of 2.5:1, -2db, slower attack and faster release is a good starting point.

A reasonably low level with lots of dynamics SHOULD be no problem for a mastering engineer, unless you are using a Tascam Porta One recording over an old Cheap Trick cassette tape. I always see this ad in Tape Op that says mastering at home is like doing your own dentistry. I don't buy it. If you can make it sound good, it is good. There are stellar mastering engineers out there. But IMO no mastering is better than bad mastering.