TL AUDIO STUFF--OPINIONS PLEASE

[PHILANDDON]

I'm thinking of getting the new M1 tube multitracker. Right now I have a mixerless studio without any tube preamps. I was thinking of getting a quality tube preamp and a mixer but thought maybe I could kill two birds with one stone. I'd be tracking and mixing acoustic music recorded mostly with ribbon and dynamic mics. Whadaya think?

P.S. What do you think of the TL Audio preamps. They seem to be a little better priced than some of their competitors....i.e. (Presonus ADL 600).

[mr.gefell]

used to own the pa-1...it's not that good.

[Sput]

I own 1 5051 and 2 5001. Those were among my first purchases and have served me well. They're not super exciting though. They're somehow correct. They defenitely add some color to the sound, whether it is the right kind of color or not is another story.
The first IVORY series didn't have a pad, what makes them kinda difficult for drums if your mic doesn't have one. I realised after some use that the headroom is quite small as well. You could hear the pre distorting even if the red light wasn't showing any peaks (super fast transients will never show).

Still, for that price is a decent piece of gear. Please notice that I am assuming that the pres and EQ in the M1 are probably almost identical to those in the ivory product range.

My 2 cents.

J.

[Fletcher]

Of the TL Audio stuff I've used it seems that the "toob" is in there more for buzzwords and show than it is in there for any kind of audio purposes. I have found the TL Audio stuff to lack headroom, depth of tone and definition of space... but that's just me and I'm a serial asshole.

As always, YMMV.

Peace.

[Billster]

The Ivory series is good for starters, but that phase won´t be for very long when you continue reading gearslutz. What I mean is : while the TL Audio stuff I know of is ok somehow, there are so many better sounding options, even if most of them are a tad more expensive.

So the question you have to answer for yourself is : are you willing to compromise on quality now, knowing that you´ll upgrade sooner or later ? Or will you go for the real deal right away and maybe safe the cash you lose by buying and selling your TLA stuff ?

I used the Ivory 5021 channel strip for quite a while and everything Fletcher stated above is true. It can be really frustrating, if you want that in-your-face sound and you just can´t get it with the TLA. I´m much happier with the Earthworks 1022 now as it gives me a very direct sound. If I want tube, I reach for the Manleys.

Maybe this helps.

Regards,
Bill

[Sput]

BTW, I forgot to mention that since you're looking at a low price product here (but not super low), you better go buy second hand.
As Billster pointed, it's a question of deciding whether you are gonna upgrade later or buy the expensive stuff first.
There's tons of TL Audio equipment around at affordable prices so that you won't crash your head against the wall (or an italian soccer player for that matter...) if you end up deciding you don't like the sound of it.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

I´m not sure if it´s comparable but i still own my first preamp: The EQ2. It´s colored, a bit slow on transients and not very detailed. But I still like this preamp. It´s warm and sometimes it´s better than the others bringing life to flat sounds, probably because it add´s some distortion. I still like it for elec guitars and some vocals.

[pan60]

i snagged a TL Audio dual valve mic pre a few years back because it was cheap and i had heard they were great.
well i keep because i think i might use it as a di sometime but in the last two or three years i do not think it has even been turned on.
personally i am very much not impressed.
it is very blah

[radiant]

I had a C1 micpre/compressor and found it to be pretty darn good. I think it is one of the most underrated compressors out there. You should be able to pick one up used for about $600. The compressor is awesome and the micpres are decent. It's definitely worth $600. I paid nearly $2000 for mine in '95.

[heyman]

While we are on the TL Audio tip, how are their consoles...?

I am talking about their M4 Tube console and VTC console..

Anyone, some reviews or comments please...

[Jules]

I find the EQ1 to be good on B vox - especially stacked R&B style ones.. - the EQ is sharp & grainy - good for 'air' on oooohs & aaahhhhhs
The 5051 - single channel compressor pre / eq - gets used on - guide vocals..

[True North]

i don't own any TL Audio stuff but I remember being at a studio with Terry Brown's partner/engineer (Russ) who said he loved the ivory pre's. He was working at another studio on the day we talked and had access to some other 'high end' pres. But he really liked and preferred the character of the 5001 pre's. That was the first time I had ever heard of TL Audio.

[Revelation]

The Ivory series was ok when it came out. Ivory 2 that improved the series a lot, making them on par with the current Focusrite Platinum Series. The difference is the Ivory 2 has a warmer, more colored sound that is pleasing to the ear, while the Focusrite is cleaner.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov0...es/tla5052.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar0...s/tlaivory.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep0...les/ivory2.htm

The Value Series units are a step up and have better spec's. The dual EQ is pretty nice, but not on the same league as the Massive Passive, but for it's price, there is not a better tube EQ. http://www.tlaudio.co.uk/tlaudio/doc...ucts/vp1.shtml

A guy in know in NYC has the M4 console in his studio (24 channel version) and he loves it to death. He tracks through it into Nuendo, and on some of the tracks, he routes them through the board to add that analog sound. He swears by the EQ. There are some things that it lacks that some other mixers have, but he stated, the sound is there.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec0.../tlaudiom4.htm

[chymer]

My main pre has been a TL AUDIO C1 pre/compressor.(the original old one)
I have to say that I Love it. The pre amps are very good and are solid state. the valves are in the compressor section, which can be bybassed. I actually only use the preamp to track and use a DBX compressor (i find it gives me a more upfront sound).
Anyway, I have used a TL AUDIO FATMAN and I didnt think it sounded as good as my TL AUDIO.
So i reckon the newer ivory series could be inferior to the older TL AUDIO stuff.
Thats just my opiniion cause Im gettin some great sounds out of my TL AUDIO.
BTW, dont push them too hard, I learnt that after a while.
chymer

[danasti]

Originally Posted by PHILANDDON

They seem to be a little better priced than some of their competitors....i.e. (Presonus ADL 600).

The ADL 600 is actually a tube preamp (3 per channel). Meaning the tubes doing something aside from lighting up and looking pretty.

Look at it's s/n ratio - freq range - headroom - analog an digital metering - switched attenuators - power supply - gain range. - It's a totally different animal.

I think the best way to start buying pres right now is to get an 8 channel OSA or 6 channel API rack ($450 - $600) bones. And get two of the MANY pres ($450 - $700 each) made for these things by OSA - API - Adesigns - Buzz- Shadow Hills - Purple Audio - TONS - TONS - TONS. You can get a great, two channel, fully expandable, portable and no question professional preamp for anywhere between $1500 and $2000.

Any one of those modules will sound 10 times more "tube" than the TL Audio.

[Fredrik]

The now discontinued indigo series has a nice tube eq for the money I have seen them for around 300$ and its stereo.

[PhilE]

The TL rack stuff is good value for money- nothinng very nice but all useable.
I don't think anyone gets excited by it but it's good utility extras for the rack... never a first choice but sometimes you just want 'a bit of something' or colour on a part and the good stuff is earmarked! Better than a plug in at this point!

[twotracker]

I bought three of them, the EQ-1 PA-1 and C-1. The pres on the EQ-1 and C-1 are solid state and not bad sounding, certainly better and warmer than a mackie.
The PA-1 isn't terrible, but you don't ever want to light the amber leds while recording. The instruction manual describes this as adding "tube warmth" the result is fuzzy distortion. Compared to a Pendulum MDP-1 the PA-1 sounds as if there is a sheet of plexiglass between you and the performer. But then the Pendulum costs a thousand more.

I don't record with them anymore, I just run the guitar through them.
And I sure can't sell them, they get trashed so bad on these forums there's no point.

[thethrillfactor]

TL Audio stands for "Too Lame" Audio.


Vanilla and Bland sounding.



I say pass.



There is better stuff out there for the same money.


You just have to be willing to look.

[radiant]

Originally Posted by twotracker

I bought three of them, the EQ-1 PA-1 and C-1. The pres on the EQ-1 and C-1 are solid state and not bad sounding, certainly better and warmer than a mackie.
The PA-1 isn't terrible, but you don't ever want to light the amber leds while recording. The instruction manual describes this as adding "tube warmth" the result is fuzzy distortion. Compared to a Pendulum MDP-1 the PA-1 sounds as if there is a sheet of plexiglass between you and the performer. But then the Pendulum costs a thousand more.

I don't record with them anymore, I just run the guitar through them.
And I sure can't sell them, they get trashed so bad on these forums there's no point.

I'm surprised you didn't find the C1 compressor to be sweet. The pres on the C1 were just there as an extra perk to the compressor (according to TLA). No one I've talked to over the years liked the pres on the C1 and neither did I. The pres took a huge back seat to my old dual 72 Vintechs.

[Haskell Brooks]

I bought an original PA-2 preamp/di for 139 dollars. I dont think it is useless, completely, and my brother found a strange use for one channel- fret/picking recording, so I gave it to him.

[Benmrx]

I forget what the model number is, but I used to have the Ivory series 2 channel compressor. I remember trying to like the DI inputs for bass, but it (and everything else I ran through this box) just came out sounding like crap. I also at one point had purchased (used) an older TL Audio 2 channel pre (older model...again, can't remember the model), this piece I did find a couple uses for. I used to use it for room mics, but while it was ok, it certainly had no wow factor.

Now the MM61 quad eight modules I'm using now for preamps...serious wow factor

To me the Ivory series stuff is on par with the focusrite platinum series, which means...not very usable.....at least for me.

The older TL audio stuff might be a bit better, but not by much...YMMV

[not_so_new]

First off, I don't really know how "High End" the TL stuff is (maybe the wrong forum but Jules posted on this thread so I guess it is cool)...



As far as the units go, I have used the Ivory series stuff and it was not that bad but it would hardly be my first pick for anything... or my second.

They are serviceable and they get the job done much in the same way that a Ford Pinto will get you from point A to point B. It might get you there but it is not something you are going to be proud of, you will probably hide it from your friends, it is not going to take you places over the long haul and it will never really make you happy like a nice BMW M3 would.

As Thrill said I would probably do a little snooping around and see what else in the same price range you can find out there... maybe used even. Again it is not a bad peice but it is not great either.

[Maglor]

I had the M1 tube tracker for about 6 months. I thought it sounded okay -- but for the money not nearly okay enough. But worse still is that in the 6 months I owned it, it had a myriad of problems. Channels cutting out, scratchy faders, mute buttons not working. LOTS of things like this. Needless to say I sold it at a rather huge loss -- The resale value is not very good at all.

Someone mentioned getting an 500 series lunchbox and filling it with pres/eqs etc. which is exactly what i am now doing. And though I have not heard them, for about the same money there is also the Midas Venice if you want a console. A lot of folks here think well of them.

--david

[TanTan]

i've worked with some of their stuf, especialy their consoles and i didn't like any unit from them, they sound unnatural and not musical and it's hard to mix channels recorded through them, the only thing i've found they are doing OK was toms and floor tom, i wouldn't go for TLA

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

... but that's just me and I'm a serial asshole.

As always, YMMV.

Peace.

So I'm watchin' this show about the Boston strangler on A&E and about 15 minutes in they show these pictures of suspects. I swear I said out loud:

OMFG! LOOK IT'S FLETCHER!!

[lumpo]

Despite the negative comments I have a pair of TL M3 tubetrackers for mixing OTB from a PT HD2 system. I bypass the EQ most of the time. I did a comparison mix for a track with a lot of acoustic material - compared to the previous mix through a big expensive Amek, the TL pair were rather nice (not flat!). Putting drums through them is quite nice. Not sure the M4 has the same quality. I used one of the mic preamps the other day - very coloured compared to Langevin but on acoustic guitar with a decent tube condenser it sounded rather round, detailed and good. Whereas there is little doubt that you get what you pay for, I think it's important not to get into the Audiophile snobbish thing - "I don't like the TL because it hasn't got the right pacedermal, chocolate in the mid range and there are few too hints of rich berries in the high end...." etc etc.

Lumpo

[PhilE]

Reading through this I wonder if maybe the TLA stuff is more costly in the US to the UK? I know it's built here but the Ivory range wouldn't set you back more than £250 a unit which is barely twice Behringer prices and it's way more useable than that stuff- I think they are great value for money (note I didn't say they are great units!) and a good starting point for the basics.
No way high end (although some of the older Indigos are genuinely nice in their right place) but for the cost I don't think you can expect things to sound all that much better- it's competing with FF Platinum, Alesis, Samson and Behringer in my mind... and winning easily.

There is none in my mix room but if it's in a cheap tracking room I can imagine an effect mic might go through it. Maybe.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by heyman

While we are on the TL Audio tip, how are their consoles...?

I am talking about their M4 Tube console and VTC console..

Anyone, some reviews or comments please...

We have had the M4 for about 4/5 weeks now (in the recording studio next door).
It is an honest, good board. No busses, 4 auxes (2 switchable pre/post, 2 post only) but apart from that I think it is lovely in its designed application.

The eq is generally fine, I don't particularly like the high shelving but the mids and lows are ok. The 24 streets for about 7K (euros) so can't really complain.

Build quality is good. Reliability, well only time will tell.

Ours is currently hooked to an HD3 with standard 96's and tracking through the board, them mixing through it and printing to tape has made a huge difference especially for pop and rock projects (or at least so the customers say)

[vixapphire]

TL is the Behringer of tube gear...