recording sing/songwriter drums. need PRO advices and ideas please!

[ddanyboy]

hi
im about to record a sing/songwriter (country-pop kinda) band. most of the songs are just vocals and guitar, but some are drums, el.bass, ac. guitar and vocals.

i need ideas about how to record the drums, since im not very familiar with doing that since the drummer is using brushes and wooden brushes (the ones that lookes like the sticks you put in flowers, but many together!).
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This is the equipment that i can use.

mics:
Gefell um70
2x gap ribbon mics (like nady, chinese ones)
2x AKG 451
3x sm57
1xsoundelux e47
1x Electro Voice ND 868 (bassdrum mic)
2x adk a51s (matched pair)
1x adk vienna

preamps:
2x trident 80b
1 neve 1073 with 1081 Eq (clone by vintagedesign in sweden)
2x built in preamps in motu 828mkII
amek tac scorpion 1 (in very nice shape)

outboard:
1x aniversal audio 1176 reissue
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motu 828mkII, Alesis AI-3
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The drummer will use:
A 80´s sonor drumset
or
pearl masters series
or
old rogers drumset
wooden snare, metal snare?
the full set is. bassdrum, snardrum, max 2 toms, max 2 cymbals, hihat.
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1. How would you do?
2. What mics on what drum?
3. position of the mics?
4. What preamps?
5. woden snare metal or metal snare?

I now there are tons of ways of doing this, and the best thing is to take time and try every combination, but i really dont have time for that and i dont think thband would apriciate it since the pay per hour.

I would really apriciate some ideas on this one, especially from folks that have done this a few times...

THANKS!!!

[ddanyboy]

should i have posted this somewhere else? low end maybe?

[recky]

Looks like a lot of choices you've got there! I take it, these are ALL the mics and preamps you have at your disposal, not just for drums? But I guess you will be laying basic tracks first and then overdub?

Depending on the room sound I'd use the ribbons as overheads Recorderman-style or out in front of the kit, about 150 - 200 cm high and 250 cm apart and pointing at the snare/kick. While I'm not an SM57 fan, I'd choose it from this selection for snare, and put the EV ND868 on kick.
This will give you a nice representation of the drum kit without being overly in-yer-face, just what you need for a singer-songwriter thing.

Preamps: Not too sure, I'd experiment, but I think a good starting point would be Tridents on the overheads (hardly any other choice as it's the only quality pair), Neve clone on kick and Amek on snare. I'd avoid the MOTU preamps like the plague.

As for drum kit selection, both the Sonor and the Rogers could be nice (don't know the Pearl). Make sure they are well tuned for this particular style. For resaons of projection, most drummers like to tune their snares very high and their kicks very low and flabby. While this works for rock-jazz-fusion and other musician's music styles, it's not what you want in a singer-songwriter/alt-country/etc. mix. Make sure the snare is quite low but with resaonable attack, and the kick shouldn't be too flabby ("basketball bounce" sound). Instead it should be tuned slightly higher, well muffled and the mic pointing somewhere between the rim and the beater, not straight on the beater.
Snare selection: Make sure the heads are new and then simply try both out. Both can sound great, wooden snares do not always sound more "organic".

My 2 euro-cents,

Recky

[ddanyboy]

Thanks a lot! these are the stuff for drums, will record guitar, and the rest later. thats was what i was planning to do but with some other ideas. What is Recorderman-style?

just courious. How come you choose the neve-clone to the bassdrum and not snare?

Thanks!!

[recky]

Hi,

check this out re. Recorderman:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ht=recorderman

I picked the Neve for kick because they have very nice low-mids and bottom, plus I'd use the EQ to dial in some bass.

Cheers,

Recky

[ddanyboy]

thanks again. i follewed the link (and the links on that page). ive got a picture of it but i dont understand it fully. I also googled on it but found the language a bit to tough (didnt understand everything). can someone please tell me in a simple way?

Thanks.

[lasso]

What's your native language? Anyways:

First (left - seen drummers perspective) mic (large diaphragm condensor preferred) is placed directly over the snare at a distance of 2 drum sticks, pointing down dead center on the snare.

Second (right) is placed just behind the drummers right shoulder pointing also directly at the snare center at the EXCACT same distance (2 drum sticks).

When you've placed these to mics, you fine tune the distance to a) the snare center and b) the beater on the kick drum so that the distance from snare to left and right mic is the same and the distance from the beater to the left and right mic is the same.

Takes a little time to get exactly right but sounds KILLER - in favor of the snare and toms. You might wanna point the right mic slightly towards the rack toms in order to get the kick to be dead center in the stereo image, but remember to keep the distance to the two mics equal at all times.

Cheers and god luck!
Hereafter add any closemics you want. ok?

[recky]

Perfect explanation! :-)

[ddanyboy]

thanks a lot, that was a simple explanation. Do i have to closemic the cymbals when doing this?

[lasso]

Originally Posted by ddanyboy

thanks a lot, that was a simple explanation. Do i have to closemic the cymbals when doing this?

No...but spotmics on the ride and hi-hat may come in hand if you want to have more control of those on the mix. My typical setup would be:

Recorderman overheads, front of kick, kick, snare, toms. Sometimes a side-snare mic if it's a wooden drum. That's it...dead simple and super nice

[recky]

The Recorderman technique works great. Using it, I've never needed spot mics on cymbals or hi-hat. Nowadays I don't even bother with micing up toms. When I'm recording song-supporting drum tracks, I treat the drum kit pretty much as a single instrument; for me, there's no need for individual control. I do like lots of valve compression on the overheads. Often, this and a kick track is all it takes. And trust me - it won't sound like a 1950s jazz recording, but quite contemporary.

Recky

[ddanyboy]

is it ok to use the ribbons recorderman-style though they are figure 8?

[recky]

Originally Posted by ddanyboy

is it ok to use the ribbons recorderman-style though they are figure 8?

Absolutely! either way, Recorderman or as room mics, no probs! The only thing to consider is the room sound, as fig. 8s pick up a lot more room than cardoids. If the room sounds crap you're up shit creek. If the room sounds good - best drum sound ever!

Cheers,

Recky

[ddanyboy]

ok, thanks!
i forgot to mention a mic by the way.. Maybe not o useful with drums though. a condenser, Gefell um70. Would you use it? snare maybe?

[recky]

Originally Posted by ddanyboy

ok, thanks!
i forgot to mention a mic by the way.. Maybe not o useful with drums though. a condenser, Gefell um70. Would you use it? snare maybe?

Whoah, that's one of my favourite mics ever!!!!! One of the best vocal mics in my book! The Gefell through a Neve pre - yum! It's a bit big for snare, but it would make an excellent (additional) mono room mic.

Cheers,

Recky