Senheiser 421 versus 521 versus 441, what's the difference ?

andre tchmil · 14th October 2003, 11:23 PM

I know the 521 doesn't has the filter switch, but is the sound much different than the 421 ?
nd what about the 441 ? soundwise, pattern, ......

Nutmeg II. · 15th October 2003, 03:54 AM

Blackfire 521 are the worest sounding version of the 421 (at least that's what people say).
The 441 is super-cardioid, nice mic, sounds good anywere, broad freq.range.
The 421 is cardioid, bigger peak in the top end, narrower freq.range.

I like the 441 on toms better than the 421. 421 are better on cabs.

dix0r · 15th October 2003, 06:57 AM

just from what i've heard (as i have no experience with them)...

421 is good on toms and guitar cab
441 is good for vocals

andre tchmil · 15th October 2003, 09:35 AM

OK, thanks for the info.
Is there a difference between the older421 grey model and the newer black one ?

Henrik · 15th October 2003, 09:38 AM

I wouldn't say the 421 has a bigger peak in the top end than the 441. To my ears, the 441 is more delicate, bright but still soft sounding compared to the 421, which I find to be thicker and grittier. The 441 is one of my favourites for snare drum and some vocals, while the 421 rocks on guitar and bass cabs. I've also used the 421 for snare, which gave a thick sound that I think would be useable for disco or classic soul. I've never used the 421 on kick, but many people swear by it. It's also a standard for close micing toms, which I rarely do. I think both mics would be very good on horns as well.

Bottom line, both mics are amazing and very versatile. And they complement each other wonderfully.

Haven't tried the 521.

Cheers
/Henrik

Nutmeg II. · 15th October 2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andre tchmil
OK, thanks for the info.
Is there a difference between the older421 grey model and the newer black one ?

Have a look at this thread

Han · 15th October 2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andre tchmil
OK, thanks for the info.
Is there a difference between the older421 grey model and the newer black one ?

Yes, if you do a search you might find discussions about the subject.

I have both 421 mk1 (the grey ones) and the mk2 which is............black and in my humble opinion the mk2 sounds a bit hotter.

It has been mentioned here that the mk1 has a copper coil and the mk2 an aluminium coil.

There is also a little difference in sound between the 441 (chromium top) and the 541 (black top)

They all are very great mics.

adamcal · 15th October 2003, 01:27 PM

I have a bunch of 421's (5 black, 1 grey) and 2 441's. Although I mostly use the 421's on toms (because there are more of them) If the drummer has just a 2 tom set up I always much prefer the 441's on the toms.

441's are also fantastic pointing up under Timbali's. Also most hand percussion. I think of 441's as slightly more upmarket 421's although 421 (all flavors) are still FKN great mic's)

a grey 421 (straight up) and 57 (on an angle) time aligned up close on a speaker cab is my first call setup for heavy rockers.

tubedude · 18th October 2003, 12:03 PM

a grey 421 (straight up) and 57 (on an angle) time aligned up close on a speaker cab is my first call setup for heavy rockers.

What does stright up and on an angle mean exactly, to you?

Ok, I have a Blackfire 541 (441) and an MD-421 U5
The 541 works on everything that makes sound, and works pretty well most of the time. Its a great mic. I have never ever ever heard of anyone, until now, saying it sounds different. THe only difference at all is color and the switch. All else is the same.

The 441 and 421 sound different, but not amazingly so. I havent had enough work with the 421 yet, but so far its great on screamer singers that like a handheld, and on dirty guitars. The 421 DID work better on the screamer. On guitars, its a toss up I guess. The 421 was interesting.

adamcal · 18th October 2003, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tubedude
What does stright up and on an angle mean exactly, to you?

Straight up as in 90 degrees to the front of the box and an angle is about 45 degrees.

Henrik · 18th October 2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tubedude

The 441 and 421 sound different, but not amazingly so. ...snip... On guitars, its a toss up I guess.

Have to disagree. I find them quite different. I wouldn't want to part with any of them.

I actually made a couple of comparison recordings some time ago. Let me see if I can dig them up.

Cheers
/Henrik

Henrik · 18th October 2003, 01:59 PM

Found them.

So here you have an MD421, an MD441 and an SM57 in front of a guitar amp. The recordings are made separately, but I was careful to place them at the exact same spot, which was about 10 cm (4") away from the cone.

You will find the MD441 to be much thinner sounding than the others. My guess is this is because the membrane is placed quite a bit behind the grill, which reduces the proximity effect. In real life, you would of course have moved the 441 closer to the amp, but in the name of science I placed the mics on the same spot...

These files are 24 bit .wav format, and they are about 1,2 Mb each. Enjoy.

SM57
MD421
MD441

Cheers
/Henrik

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14th October 2003, 11:23 PM	#1
andre tchmil Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: always on the move Posts: 598	Senheiser 421 versus 521 versus 441, what's the difference ? I know the 521 doesn't has the filter switch, but is the sound much different than the 421 ? nd what about the 441 ? soundwise, pattern, ...... __________________ "WORK- BUY-CONSUME-............ DIE"

15th October 2003, 03:54 AM	#2
Nutmeg II. Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: GEARmany Posts: 904	Blackfire 521 are the worest sounding version of the 421 (at least that's what people say). The 441 is super-cardioid, nice mic, sounds good anywere, broad freq.range. The 421 is cardioid, bigger peak in the top end, narrower freq.range. I like the 441 on toms better than the 421. 421 are better on cabs. __________________ "Any recording engineer who uses a tube U47 is obviously not a professional" Stephan Temmer 1979

15th October 2003, 09:35 AM	#4
andre tchmil Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: always on the move Posts: 598	OK, thanks for the info. Is there a difference between the older421 grey model and the newer black one ? __________________ "WORK- BUY-CONSUME-............ DIE"

15th October 2003, 01:27 PM	#8
adamcal Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,115	I have a bunch of 421's (5 black, 1 grey) and 2 441's. Although I mostly use the 421's on toms (because there are more of them) If the drummer has just a 2 tom set up I always much prefer the 441's on the toms. 441's are also fantastic pointing up under Timbali's. Also most hand percussion. I think of 441's as slightly more upmarket 421's although 421 (all flavors) are still FKN great mic's) a grey 421 (straight up) and 57 (on an angle) time aligned up close on a speaker cab is my first call setup for heavy rockers. __________________ Adam Calaitzis www.toyland.com.au

15th October 2003, 06:57 AM	#3
dix0r Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 8	just from what i've heard (as i have no experience with them)... 421 is good on toms and guitar cab 441 is good for vocals

15th October 2003, 09:38 AM	#5
Henrik Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 190	I wouldn't say the 421 has a bigger peak in the top end than the 441. To my ears, the 441 is more delicate, bright but still soft sounding compared to the 421, which I find to be thicker and grittier. The 441 is one of my favourites for snare drum and some vocals, while the 421 rocks on guitar and bass cabs. I've also used the 421 for snare, which gave a thick sound that I think would be useable for disco or classic soul. I've never used the 421 on kick, but many people swear by it. It's also a standard for close micing toms, which I rarely do. I think both mics would be very good on horns as well. Bottom line, both mics are amazing and very versatile. And they complement each other wonderfully. Haven't tried the 521. Cheers /Henrik

18th October 2003, 12:03 PM	#9
tubedude Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ky. Posts: 626	a grey 421 (straight up) and 57 (on an angle) time aligned up close on a speaker cab is my first call setup for heavy rockers. What does stright up and on an angle mean exactly, to you? Ok, I have a Blackfire 541 (441) and an MD-421 U5 The 541 works on everything that makes sound, and works pretty well most of the time. Its a great mic. I have never ever ever heard of anyone, until now, saying it sounds different. THe only difference at all is color and the switch. All else is the same. The 441 and 421 sound different, but not amazingly so. I havent had enough work with the 421 yet, but so far its great on screamer singers that like a handheld, and on dirty guitars. The 421 DID work better on the screamer. On guitars, its a toss up I guess. The 421 was interesting. __________________ You CAN polish a turd... if you freeze it first.

18th October 2003, 01:59 PM	#12
Henrik Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 190	Found them. So here you have an MD421, an MD441 and an SM57 in front of a guitar amp. The recordings are made separately, but I was careful to place them at the exact same spot, which was about 10 cm (4") away from the cone. You will find the MD441 to be much thinner sounding than the others. My guess is this is because the membrane is placed quite a bit behind the grill, which reduces the proximity effect. In real life, you would of course have moved the 441 closer to the amp, but in the name of science I placed the mics on the same spot... These files are 24 bit .wav format, and they are about 1,2 Mb each. Enjoy. SM57 MD421 MD441 Cheers /Henrik

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