DAV BG-1 added to my Fireface 800 - upgrade notes

[somedude74]

I wanted to bump

[fraz]

What a pisser, eh? Almost makes you want to return the DAV......... .

And there are those who would argue that the pre makes little if any difference.

[reid]

Originally Posted by GTR

Anyone have a similar BG-1 story?

Mmmm.

Yamaha 03d preamps.

then Focusrite Twintrak Pro.

then DAV BG-1.


can you imagine what the world would be like if Mick started doing whole desks?

[dubrichie]

yeah man, very similar circumstances here!

im contemplating getting rid of my octopre asap and getting a BG8 instead.

ill lose some inputs, but they suck so i only stand to gain really.

regards,

richie.

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by reid

Mmmm.

Yamaha 03d preamps.

then Focusrite Twintrak Pro.

then DAV BG-1.


can you imagine what the world would be like if Mick started doing whole desks?

He did use to do desks.. for Decca. The DAV pres were created to go into Deccas console.

[Schmacko]

A lot of people regard the FF800's pre's as "usable". While I suppose they are, I would never use them ;p. They don't have a lot of gain, and to be honest they sound like poop to my ears. They are 100x better than a Digi 002 pre, but at the same time I wouldn't be tracking a major focal point of a mix, such as a lead vocal, through them.

I still like my FF800 though!

[OVERNIGHT]

I actually don't hate the FF800 pres. No, they're are most certainly not as good as the best pres in my rack but I've used them to good effect for room mics, bass cabs, and back ground vocs.

[steveH]

GTR, what did you pay for the DAV BG-1?

If it had one mic and one Hi Z - would be ideal for me.

But I see the Unit 5 is the one channel instr. pre amp - wonder how much that runs as well.

Mercenary Audio didn't have these.

[jlsgear]

Had to sell a BG due to job loss ... really really wish I had it back )-:

jls

[Reptil]

I had the same experience in 2004. My first good pre. (movin up from mackie VLZ too)
now I got some more goodies (preamps are addictive) but the DAV still holds its ground, very cool pre to cut through tracks. I use it to amp passive eq too, and other stuff, I pick it over a V672 a lot of times. (!)
The fireface is fine, and I won't replace it for some time, it does the job! The pres are extra, when on location, they're good to have in the rack!

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by jlsgear

Had to sell a BG due to job loss ... really really wish I had it back )-:

jls

LOL now you can save for the 8 channel version. look at it on the bright side.

[Jim Williams]

DIY's can save the money and build one with a few dollars. It uses the BB INA217 mic pre chip followed by an Analog Devices OP-275 and an inverter for a balanced output. Data sheets are available from BurrBrown and Analog Devices which makes the SSM2019, a cross as is the that 1510 mic pre chip. BG-1 usesrs have reported that the that 1510 sounds more open and natural. For BG-1 users, installation of an 8 pin ic socket will allow you to try all three of these mic pre chips. Larger coupling caps will extend the low end and reduce phase shift.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[T.RayBullard]

FYI


BG 1 and 2 are the same circuit but with extra switches for phantom and
phase.
BG No 4 & 6 use the same circuit but no. 4 has filters and rotary switches.
BG-8 is the same circuit as BG No 1 and 2, 26 - 59 dB of gain, but has 1 HPF frequency 65Hz.earth lift+ 115/230 V switchable.
overloads at +29dBu[built for David Gilmour to record his world tour, he bought 64 channels, 8 units]
inputs are XLR ,outputs on 25 way d-type.

BG No 1 costs 700
BG No 2 costs 1450
BG No 3 costs 2100
BG No's 4 & 5 cost 1700 each
BG No 6 costs 799
BG-8 is 2200 .

Mick does not deal with retailers. He does not want prices to be raised at all, which retailers do....the DAVs are a bargain at any price. they are the best mic amps in the world. Ive used Gordon, GML, DACS, Grace, Millennia(which I own but never use anymore)..DAV trounces everything, in my opinion. Swiss Army knife, great price, fantastic customer support, user base is reknowned....Support Mick Hinton! He is the man, and bucks the trend of pretty lights and Wall Street Prices to produce "gasp!" a preamp that just sounds amazing. No frills, just THE sound.

[travisgarrison]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

BG No 1 costs 700
BG No 2 costs 1450
BG No 3 costs 2100
BG No's 4 & 5 cost 1700 each
BG No 6 costs 799
BG-8 is 2200 .

Teddy,

Thanks for the price list. I always found it curious that no prices were listed on the DAV website. Any idea why the website makes no mention of the BG-8?

Travis Garrison

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by travisgarrison

Teddy,

Thanks for the price list. I always found it curious that no prices were listed on the DAV website. Any idea why the website makes no mention of the BG-8?

Travis Garrison

because it is a new product...just hasnt updated the site yet.

[frixion]

The price tag of $700 somehow surprises me. I made an inquiry to D.A.V. and got a reply from digital audio service (audio retailer in Germany) who send me this link:
http://shop.digitalaudioservice.de/q...=0&keywords=bg
769 Euro is quite a difference to 700 grand!
Nevertheless the price is great, even if I pay more.

Phil

[reid]

frixion,

just buy one direct from Mick in the UK; call him by phone (don't bother with email) and sort out the deal - he's a very friendly guy and you can pay via paypal, so no bank transfer hassles. It's hell of a lot cheaper and it'll be with you in a couple of days.

Worked for me.....

[audiothings]

B. I am also upset that there is less background/room noise noticeable with the BG-1. I really liked hearing the 10 freeway in the background because it added character.

don't mean to piss on this parade... some of the people who i respect very much heartily recommend this pre and i don't believe that they are wrong here. but the better, quieter preamp should pick up more background noise unless there is some serious magic involved, no? how on earth can a preamp be so intelligent as to distinguish between very low level musical information and background noise from the highway?

.02,

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by frixion

The price tag of $700 somehow surprises me. I made an inquiry to D.A.V. and got a reply from digital audio service (audio retailer in Germany) who send me this link:
http://shop.digitalaudioservice.de/q...=0&keywords=bg
769 Euro is quite a difference to 700 grand!
Nevertheless the price is great, even if I pay more.

Phil

email mick@davelectronics.com OR davelectronics@tiscali.co.uk ... ..dont bother with retailers. Trust me.

[frixion]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

email mick@davelectronics.com OR davelectronics@tiscali.co.uk ... ..dont bother with retailers. Trust me.

I mailed directly to dave bute my email was obviosly fowarded to digital audio service ("D.A.V. are too busy..."), but I believe giving a call is the best choice in this case.
Thanx,
Phil

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by GTR

Very cool, but the only thing I know how to fix is a broken stem on my bong.

You must know some nerd that could help. Replacing that BB INA217 with an 8 pin machine socket is not hard to do. The results are worth it. I find the BB part to sound the worst of the three I mentioned. Try the SSM2019 or the that 1510, you won't regret it. Bypassing the input blocking caps with a fast polyprop film cap is like after your ears pop when a jet lands.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Reptil]

haha thanks again! another mod project on the workbench!

(I decided I have to go back to my nerdy roots, because electrotechnicians, especially the ones working with high quality audio designs are very very rare in this country.)

I like the DAV already the way it is... but I'm going to try the mod.

now for that DBX 266XL....

[andrew269]

Originally Posted by GTR

Sorry -- I stand corrected. I thought that the noise floor is reduced with a better pre??? That is what I heard in my headphones. Maybe it was the way the high range frequencies are perceived by the preamp?? The white noise bg. Anyways, I think I hear my refridgerator ruinning.... hum de dum...

i think you're confusing the noise floor with background noise.

[somedude74]

Originally Posted by andrew269

i think you're confusing the noise floor with background noise.

Wow, I am totally mentally challenged. In a few months I will start posting my tunes.

[andrew269]

Originally Posted by GTR

Wow, I am totally mentally challenged. In a few months I will start posting my tunes.

we all have our moments...

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by GTR

This sounds palatable-- I thought a solder gun was required. So, I remove the BB chip with the chip remover tool, and then plop in the SSM2019?? Is that all there is to it?

Also, I do not know what an input blocking cap is, so I may have to do some Google on it.

Thanks Jim, this is really good information!!!

- George

The mod is all fine and good and all, but why risk doing something like this when you dont even know the amp intimately, much less know if the mods will be an improvement or not??? The mods may sound fine to JW, and others, but better written specs dont always translate to sonic preference...If It were me, I would leave the mic amp how it is, get to know it ,and then if there is something that you want out of it that you arent getting, then consider a mod..dont assume that it will automatically be better after modding.. Mick has done something right, a lot of big name clients are buying his products.

[Jim Williams]

Any circuit work should be done by experienced folks. This one is not hard to do. Since it's a single sided pcb, a bit of wick or a pump would do fine. Remember, it's a single 8 pin socket, 8 pads to do. This allows the user to test and select which of the 3 contenders they prefer. If the BB INA217 is pulled cleanly, it can be re-used. Otherwise, one can reorder a new one from digi-key.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Jonkan]

Im with jim on this one...but if you havent soldered much before, i would practice some soldering and desoldering before attempting the mod on something important like the DAV pre.

(Ps. If you dip the solder wick in rosin flux, it will be alot easier to desolder the chip.)

/Jonas

[LogicBoy]

Hi,

I have a Fireface 800 and i am interested in adding the BG1 to my armoury. Ive contacted Mick and hes a good bloke and replys to email really quick. I was wondering did you get better results by plugging the BG1 straight into the Fireface?

Any help appreciated.

[sunflute]

Jim Williams modded the BG1 for me and I can tell you that the upgrade puts the preamp in a totally different class.

I liked the BG1 before the mod, but I found that I still wanted more definition out of the high end (by that I mean clarity, not brightness as in the sound of a very famous classical preamp out there). With the mod, I find that I am much closer soundwise to what I am looking for. The BG1 still sounds big, open and clean but now it is also clearer, more defined.

Since I've been searching for preamps to record classical flute, I have been looking for a clean, musical, well defined sound, and I have heard many preamps that give you one or the other (sometimes when it sounds clean, it doesn't sound musical). Jim Williams' upgrade pretty much got me there. The output Opamps he uses are very musical sounding.

As far as using the SSM2019 or the THAT1510 for the input OPAMP, I have them both and I like them both. The SSM2019 has a smoother sound and the THAT1510 is a cleaner sound in the high frequencies. So now, I not only have a great preamp but I can also tailor the color. Pretty cool! thumbsup

Anyway this is just one opinion, I would be curious to hear other gearslutz' opinion of the mod.

Thank you,
Peace
Marco Granados