JZ Microphones are designing a new dynamic mic - help us design it!

[EddyR]

Please vote for your favorite dynamic mic and if possible shortly write down why:

1) Shure SM58
2) Shure Beta 58A
3) AKG D5
4) AKG D7
5) Audix OM7
6) Audix OM6
7) Rode M1
8) Sennheiser E935
9) Beyerdynmic TG V70DS
10) AT AE6100
11) OTHER...

We will count votes next week

[John Willett]

From your list: 8 - e935.

It is tough with excellent feedback rejection, but without the woolliness of the SM58.

[legato]

No (other) classics on the list? Like the Sennheiser MD441 or Beyer(dynamic) M88. Granted, there's the "other" option.
Another old favorite of mine is the AKG D330BT.

Of the more recent designs (neodymium) I really like the ElectroVoice N/D 967. Not so much for the frequency range (although the limits there are partly deliberate and do have their advantage, too), but for just about everything else.

BTW, going by the list I presume this is about moving coils only (no ribbons)?



Henk

[Rob Coates]

I didn't see the Stedman N90 on your list. It's my favorite dynamic. I'd suggest a large diaphragm like the Stedman, and a built in phantom powered preamp similar to the Fethead, only built into the body of the mic. If you can design and make such a beast, I'll buy 2. There are so many run of the mill typical dynamics already and the world doesn't need any more of them. Be bold, design something unique and different like I described above!

[oudplayer]

Originally Posted by EddyR

Please vote for your favorite dynamic mic and if possible shortly write down why:

1) Shure SM58
2) Shure Beta 58A
3) AKG D5
4) AKG D7
5) Audix OM7
6) Audix OM6
7) Rode M1
8) Sennheiser E935
9) Beyerdynmic TG V70DS
10) AT AE6100
11) OTHER...

none of these is my favorite, and in fact I don't wouldn't use any of them if there was any alternative available in the studio. My favorite 3 dynamics are (in order):
Heil PR40
Sennheiser 441
Beyer M88

They're favorites since they sound much better in the high frequencies for acoustic sources and truly rock on percussion/drum duties.

The Sennheiser 504 and 409 are interesting specialty dynamic mics, kinda "one-trick ponies" (toms and guitar cabs) but do those tricks really well and reissue mics aren't quite as good as the "originals."

[kevinkace]

Wide diaphragm handheld would indeed be interesting.
I'd also vote for some sort of arrangement of large spikes around the head basket to prevent things like this:

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by oudplayer

none of these is my favorite, and in fact I don't wouldn't use any of them if there was any alternative available in the studio.

Studio?

From the list it seems that the plan is for a stage vocal mic., not a recording mic.

[drbob1]

None of the above. The SM57 is my favorite if you mean the mic that I could use in the most situations. It's not THE best mic for anything, except, in some cases, guitar cabs and snare tops, but it'll do the job for anything from acoustics to vocals, guitars thru bass, snare thru kick. Not sure I'd use one as drum overhead but that's about the only thing I can think of that you just wouldn't ever use it on. Plus they're bulletproof! I have 3 from the 60s that still work great.

[oudplayer]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Studio?

From the list it seems that the plan is for a stage vocal mic., not a recording mic.

Assuming you are correct, for stage dynamic mics, I'd still include the Sennheiser 441 (for instruments/drums) and the Beyer M88 (instruments/vocals) at the top of my list. I actually typically travel with an m88 to gigs I'm playing at since I find it's likely to work better than the house's offerings for something, and it (imho ymmv etc) blows away any of the current in-production shure, akg, ev or audix dynamics. As both of the mics I mentioned are quite expensive, if jz could come up with an equally "high fidelity" alternative for cheaper, I think it could do very successfully.

[narcoman]

A dynamic mic like a 57 that has a turnable capsule!! That'd be nice..... like the side address of the albini influenced Josephson thing. Thats a great mic. Lets have a dynamic like that!!

[Kierkes]

I do have to say that I love the AE6100 a lot more than any other microphone on that original list. The AE4100 follows.

And keeping in the realm of stage dynamics, I'd probably prefer the Senns after that. I'm curious about the Heil's but I've never owned one.

[dickiefunk]

The dynamic mics I use for gigs are :-

Sennheiser E935
Audix Om6
Shure Beta 58
Shure SM57
Shure SM58

My favorite is the Sennheiser going down to the SM58 which is my least favorite!
The E935 is my current favorite live vocal mic and I particularly like it on female vocals. The E935 has reasonably good feedback rejection and adds a nice smooth sheen to vocals. The sound is also nice and full with plenty of body. The Audix OM6 (and OM7) have the best feedback rejection of these mics and a nice presence for vocals to cut through a mix but sound a little thinner than the E935 (which can be a + or - depending on source and situation). The beta 58 can be a little more prone to causing feedback with the monitors on loud gigs in tight spaces due to its pick up pattern (but nothing a quick adjustment of the monitor eq can't solve). It can also sound a little harsh on some female vocalists but is possibly my favorite live mic for male vocals that I've tried so far.
I have also had a little experience with the Heil PR35 and didn't particularly get on with this mic on the sources I tried. I found this mic could sound a little harsh on certain vocalists.

I work with two female mezzo soprano gospel vocalists live and they both have massive voices with a large dynamic range. We have tried out quite a few mics on their voices and the Sennheiser E935 and Audix OM6 has had the nicest tone that's been able to handle them belting it without sounding harsh or dull.

We've also borrowed a couple of live condenser mics to try on their voices - Sennheiser E945 and Neumann KMS105. I found the E945 sounded good but was very prone to feedback!? The KMS105 was lovely but is more expensive and would cost nearly £800 for a pair!

One thing with all the live mics I've tried is they can be quite prone to popping with strong plosives (though dynamics are generally a little better). Obviously this can be eliminated using a low cut filter etc but some mics seem have better more effective headbasket designs that reduce the popping much more than others.

In the studio I use the Shure SM7b on some vocalists which can sound great or bad depending on the voice. This mic has fantastic rejection and can be great in untreated rooms to eliminate unwanted unpleasant acoustics.

[Xander]

Out of the ones on the list that I use regularly, I would say 2) Beta58. It has a clear upper midrange that can cut through a mix very well, but it has strong feedback rejection so that this voicing does not cause any more feedback in the monitors at those frequencies.

I second the idea to design a basket around the back of the grill to prevent cupping of the mic.

If there is one thing that still baffles me about stage performers is their lack of knowledge regarding mic technique. I think that adding a basket around the back of the grill to prevent completely blocking it will improve the sound considerably when certain performers decide to grab the mic off the stand and eat it.

I actually prefer a tilt toward a super-cardioid polar pattern, since the monitors are usually off to the side a bit anyway. I tend to get better rejection than with a standard cardioid.

Another thing that I look for is low handling noise. When you touch the mic stand and hear noise from the mic, it screams "cheap." Or if you can't take the mic off clip/stand without substantial noise.

As for looks...matte black is pretty sexy. Satin nickel and copper can make nice accents. Please no more chrome!

I'll come back when I think of anything else...

[taturana]

to me the best sounding dinamics i know and use are the senn 409, senn e906, senn 421,
beyer m201, audix i5, beta57, and 57 tranformerless (modded)

the i5's eq curve is pretty good because i can use it in many sources... others like the 57 and with its midrange honk don't get used as much in my studio.. with a better transformer or having it removed i find it more useful...

the seen e906 is a great example of a new design that i love especially on guitar and drums . the 421 also is a very versatile beast.

[prontold]

Another vote for the beyer m88 or the sennheiser md441. 57s and 58s are great too, but the m88 and 441 are microphones that I think are useful on almost any source, in almost any context.

[Lotus 7]

For performance vocal use: EV ND 757B. High output, extended HF response, high rear rejection, uniform off-axis polar response, compliments most voices and the bass roll-of switch works perfectly. Plus, they're consistant, new and old ones always sound the same.

[imsteinrecording]

Hi Eddy,

I checked out JZ mics at the AES show in SF. I'll be at the one next one as well. Not gigging much anymore, but when I did I actually preferred using the SM57. It has a tighter pickup pattern and I could really use the proximity effect on stage. The SM57 can pop a bit, but I found this was not a problem when using correct mic technique. Thank you for the interesting thread! Best of luck with the new mic!
Sincerely,

Mark

[Vaernima]

I think I'd choose option 'other' and say I use Senn MD421's the most. They have that nice variable rolloff filter option to switch between vox and music content - which opens up the mic nicely in the latter.
It's the sound that I like, very controlled but not wooley like SM58 or having tinny high frequency at the top - possibly due to diffraction from the shape of the mic and that it's end-terminating - I can only offer conjecture.

The clip is the worst part of the mic and I think it wouldn't stand up to the same kind of beating most metal barrel dynamics would on tour.

But if I picked one from your list Senn e935 - reasons the same as most have been saying.

[cyjanopan]

11) Other - MD441, with 5 position rolloff filter and nice +HF shelf it makes it most flexible dynamic for me. Keep in mind I also have M88TG, MD421, M201, RE20, D19, D12 and other standard mics and I prefer MD441 on everything that needs tight pattern or close miking. Rolloff on -1 or -2 from M o kill plosives and proximity effect + shelf : best vocal sound for live use, awesome on snares too with it's incredible side rejection. So something with different flavour but simmilar quality and as flexible would be great !

[John Willett]

EddieR,

Please can you confirm what sort of dynamic mic. you are looking to produce first?

This threads seems to be going in several directions.

Although I would agree that mics like the Sennheiser MD421 and 441 are superb mics, they would not be my first choice as a hand-held stage vocal mic.

So - are you developing a general-purpose dynamic? or one specifically for live stage vocals?

Your answer will help focus the replies to the main area you are looking at.

John

[cyjanopan]

Originally Posted by John Willett

EddieR,

Please can you confirm what sort of dynamic mic. you are looking to produce first?

This threads seems to be going in several directions.

Although I would agree that mics like the Sennheiser MD421 and 441 are superb mics, they would not be my first choice as a hand-held stage vocal mic.

So - are you developing a general-purpose dynamic? or one specifically for live stage vocals?

Your answer will help focus the replies to the main area you are looking at.

John

But handheld MD441 would be awesome
On the other hand through my few years career as a FOH engineer and in studio there was maybe one or two artist that really held microphone in hand, and they both were rappers.

[EddyR]

Thank you all for answers.
To clarify - we are working on new dynamic microphone designed for live vocal on stage, but as always we will try to make our products as versatile as possible so all your answers are real help for us.

[motone]

Sennheiser MD409 - so good on guitar cabs, and toms, and snare etcetc
AKG D12 - so good on bass drum and bass cabs, and very useful as an additional mic whereever you need some additional low end (but no scooped mids).

imho these are the two most important dynamics that need a current equivalent. used prices are insane, and in the case of the D12 half of the used ones aren't working correctly.

I don't see any point in copying (or building something similar to) the M88, or 421, or 441, since all of these are still in production.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by EddyR

Thank you all for answers.
To clarify - we are working on new dynamic microphone designed for live vocal on stage.

If it's for a lead singer the requirements would be rugged, with superb feedback rejection and with "cut through" to let the vocal cut through the backing band.

Both the SM58 and the e935 have this, but the e935 is not so wooly as the SM58.

If it's for backing it would probably not need so much "cut through".

[Silent Sound]

8) Sennheiser E935

It's got a good clean airy quality to it and it's not overly wooly or colored. To me, it makes the singer sound like the singer's natural voice, and not like the microphone. It also has a very usable pickup pattern so it allows you to move around a bit in front of the mic without risking dropping out of the monitors all together should you find yourself slightly outside of the sweet-spot, like the Audix OM6 would do. However, the Sennheiser E935 can be very forgiving, but also has great feedback rejection, so it's still useful even on a compact stage.

[jetam]

My favourite is the MD441. If you'd make a mic which would sound like the 441, but with a cardiodid polar patern, it would be great.

[brassmoose]

Live lead vocals...
Heil PR35
441
EV 767/967 are very good for price

[legato]

I don't see any point in copying (or building something similar to) the M88, or 421, or 441, since all of these are still in production.

It would be very hard to develop a -successful- (moving coil) dynamic microphone that's not similar to anything that's out there.




Henk

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by John Willett

If it's for a lead singer the requirements would be rugged, with superb feedback rejection and with "cut through" to let the vocal cut through the backing band.

Both the SM58 and the e935 have this, but the e935 is not so wooly as the SM58.

If it's for backing it would probably not need so much "cut through".

As John said though whilst the mic has "cut through" within a mix it needs to still sound smooth and not harsh.