Rock cymbals in the studio?

[ZombieMorg]

Personally I think it's more to do with the cymbals themselves instead of processing.

Try using bright cymbals (Zildjian A Customs, Sabian AAXs etc). You could also experiment with using thicker felts and clamping the cymbals down more on the stands, but don't over do it or you risk damaging the cymbal.

[imloggedin]

Usually when I clamp down on the cymbal it sounds so choked. I really dislike that sound. I might need to invest in some A Custom Fast Crashes. But the setups I see in studios aren't always using fast crashes, so they must be doing something else.

[Rascal Audio]

Decay is generally a function of the diameter of a cymbal. Larger diameter cymbals have longer decay, smaller cymbals = shorter decay.

As far as the weight of the cymbal goes, it should match the dynamic at which the drummer plays, so if the drummer has a lighter touch, thinner cymbals are appropriate (larger diameter still has longer decay). If the guy is a neanderthal the cymbals should be heavier (larger diameter still has longer decay).

The ratio of crash/explosion to decay in a crash cymbal is similar for both heavy and thin models. The weight should fit the drummer's touch, and you, as engineer, set the mic's gain for the loudest expected dynamics, so the recorded crash:decay relationship remains rather similar between weights.

Other helpful tidbits about cymbal selection:

The larger a cymbal's diameter, the lower its pitch.
The thicker a cymbal is, the higher its pitch.
The flatter a cymbal's bow is, the lower its pitch.
The larger a cymbal's bell is, relative to overall diameter, the more complex its overtones.
Hand hammered cymbals (as opposed to machine hammered cymbals) tend to be have more complex overtones. Most hand hammering results in cymbals with a flatter profile and, therefore, lower pitch to go with those increased overtones.

LOTS of combinations available with these variables.

Joel

[bigbone]

17'' A Zildjian will give you that sound.......

[greenhirny]

The room also plays huge into this. An overly absorptive room will make crashes sound like splashes. It's the most frustrating thing in the world

[K. Osborne]

I think the majority of it is in how they are chosen, and of course how they are played. Most drummers hit their cymbals way too loud in the studio so you have to tell them to back down. It's all relative. I try to use brighter smaller cymbals the faster the song is. The more space between hits, the more space for cymbal decay. Good drummers will hit them in such a way that they speak with the timing of the song too. Like most faster songs need more staccato playing with quick snap back on cymbals and drums... I HATE when drummers just lay Into cymbals, or when they play them in appropriately for the song. That's all production stuff that makes a huge difference.

In general I'd say don't mix too many cymbal weights, just adjust for the drummer. The ride may be the only exception. I go with smaller fast crashes except maybe one big crash on the side for that One big hit in the song...

I like 14 hats. Big hats only work with slower songs and or drummers that have a ton of finesse. Rides vary a lot but I generally go with a medium weight ride that's not too washy.

Faster more complex the song, faster decays on cymbals.

A customs record beautifully.

Seems blunt but for real... Spend the most time getting your overhead mics to sound great. Don't Put em too close to cymbals or kit or they will sound gongy and too big. Cymbals sound good from far away, that's how we hear them on stage...

I'd suggest the most expensive investment on the recording gear side of drums is at least one pair of great mics and pres for the overheads... The other stuff can just fill in.

On the processing side be very careful how loud The cymbals are. I think that's why you may see a lot of guys brightening up the overheads... So they can get that pretty sound of top end BUT the turn down the overheads a bit to get them tucked in. Too loud and you'll only get annoyingly loud and disembodied hits. Think about how you'd hear it in a room... Drums should be louder than cymbals in most cases. If the cymbals are louder it means theyre either playing too loud, it's mic'ed up funny, the cymbals are not right for the song or your room is too small


Rascal had some seriously great info above too!

[fastlanestoner]

Smaller cymbals are better for recording, as they have a faster decay. I and most of my drummer friends prefer Zildjians, but Paistes are great too