Need an all-purpose mic (or two). Recommendations?
Hey guys,
First post here. I am joining so that I can get expert advice on gear so that I can make as informed of a decision as possible for building up my gear repertoire. What I'm most unsure about right now is what mic I should get.
I was recommended a Neumann KMS 105 mic for live vocals, so I got one, and it is pretty amazing, but now I am looking for an all-purpose mic or two (for stereo). It would be used for both recording at a home studio (that may or may not have great room acoustics) in addition to live situations. I'd like for it to be able to record just about anything acoustic in addition to vocals. The mic(s) would be mainly used for solo vocals (My vocal range is from a bass to a tenor if that matters) and especially solo steel-string acoustic guitar. I'd like to be able to get a pair used for under 2k in total, but I'm willing to be flexible with my budget if any of you really think that something above it is worth the extra cost. Of course below 2k for a pair of mics is great as well. :D
This is where you guys come in. I'm looking for the best sound quality possible that fits my needs. I'm open to all suggestions. Feel free to ask questions if you need to know more.
Oh, and the preamp that I will be using (since I haven't been able to find one used yet) is a Pendulum SPS-1.
With that budget, I would grab up a used pair of AT 4050s (800ish) and a used pair of 4041s(500ish). If you wait long enough you may be able to get into a pair of Gefell M300s or KM184s instead of the 4041s.
With the first option, you'd have enough cash left to get one of those DP Audix mic packs,...the one without the overheads,... and you'd have one unstoppable mic locker.
Or a Sytech(sp) mic pres to power all four of your new mics,.... or a AT4060 and you would have the AT army at your disposal,..... I can go on for days like this.
Good luck!
You could do anything with the 4 mics in option 1.
They are pretty universal in usage.
They hold their value if bought used.
And they are all tough as sh!t, so buying used is almost never an issue.
Thanks for tge replies, guys! I'm definitely considering making a collection of mics now! What di yiu guys think of a pair of Schoeps CMC64s? I've heard that they'res nothing better for the price. They also sound like they would fit my needs.
Thanks for tge replies, guys! I'm definitely considering making a collection of mics now! What di yiu guys think of a pair of Schoeps CMC64s? I've heard that they'res nothing better for the price. They also sound like they would fit my needs.
First of all, about the Audio Technica mics...
I do appreciate the headroom of the AT40XX mics. I own a 4047 and prefer it on male vocals, over more expensive mics. I also happen to love it on piano, cello, and acoustic guitars that need low end accentuated. It has fatness on the low end and also lifts the high end of the vocal "whisper" and consonants very nicely. Granted, there are many vocalists that this mic does not do such a great job, especially if their sibilant consonants are a bit high in frequency; likewise, I often don't like these mics on female vocalists for this same reason. But looking at the 4050, the freq response is similar (high end a bit more pronounced at the 10K extreme, but that's above most sibilant problems) plus you get the added benefit of the multiple patterns. I'd bet this would be a good mic, indeed!
Secondly, about the Schoeps mics...
About 4 years ago, producer Paul Mills was holding a class that I attended. Among the information he shared was a data sheet comparing microphone types which had been rigorously tested.
Highest of "flat" and "sensitive" among flat frequency microphones was the DPA family of small diaphragm mics. If I remember correctly, in second, came Schoeps and/or Earthworks (the two came out averaging roughly the same in the shoot-out). Most interesting was that the difference in "flatness" between the DPA's and the other two was incredibly small, all small differences averaged. For the price, the Earthworks were hands-down the best deal of those, and their reputation seems very high among those whom I've worked with in this area.
I used to live in Indianapolis; A colleague and I had the exclusive recording contract with the Indianapolis Men's and Women's Choirs, and we were involved in other acoustical live recordings, such as jazz and orchestral performances. We used a Royer stereo ribbon for the vocal performances, but usually used the Earthworks for the more instrumental music, specifically, the SR-30's. These were great for live, as well as studio, providing a cardioid pattern (helping to block out crowd noise, since the position was above the crowd, behind the conductor). But I now own a pair of the QTC30's, which have a lower noise floor, and are omni-directional (I have bigger rooms and don't do live recordings anymore).
What I favor about the individual mics, instead of mics physically paired, is that you can do more, of course. Example; for stereo drum room mics - these mics totally rock, especially with a preamp with an extended, sensitive low-end - you get the low-end "boom" of the kick, as well as the semi-smeared sizzle in all its delicate detail with those QTC's - And I spread them apart while tracking AND in the mix for that extra fat sound.
For me, I'd spend the extra $$ on high-end pre-amps.
For instrument mics, it just depends on how much detail and exactness you need. I actually wouldn't suggest the QTC's on rock drum overheads, though - okay for light jazz work. They are just too sensitive. But keep them a distance from the drums and they do pick up everything in finest detail, as I suppose the Schoeps or DPA's would.
First of all, about the Audio Technica mics... I do appreciate the headroom of the AT40XX mics. I own a 4047 and prefer it on male vocals, over more expensive mics. I also happen to love it on piano, cello, and acoustic guitars that need low end accentuated. It has fatness on the low end and also lifts the high end of the vocal "whisper" and consonants very nicely. Granted, there are many vocalists that this mic does not do such a great job, especially if their sibilant consonants are a bit high in frequency; likewise, I often don't like these mics on female vocalists for this same reason. But looking at the 4050, the freq response is similar (high end a bit more pronounced at the 10K extreme, but that's above most sibilant problems) plus you get the added benefit of the multiple patterns. I'd bet this would be a good mic, indeed!
Secondly, about the Schoeps mics...
About 4 years ago, producer Paul Mills was holding a class that I attended. Among the information he shared was a data sheet comparing microphone types which had been rigorously tested.
Highest of "flat" and "sensitive" among flat frequency microphones was the DPA family of small diaphragm mics. If I remember correctly, in second, came Schoeps and/or Earthworks (the two came out averaging roughly the same in the shoot-out). Most interesting was that the difference in "flatness" between the DPA's and the other two was incredibly small, all small differences averaged. For the price, the Earthworks were hands-down the best deal of those, and their reputation seems very high among those whom I've worked with in this area.
I used to live in Indianapolis; A colleague and I had the exclusive recording contract with the Indianapolis Men's and Women's Choirs, and we were involved in other acoustical live recordings, such as jazz and orchestral performances. We used a Royer stereo ribbon for the vocal performances, but usually used the Earthworks for the more instrumental music, specifically, the SR-30's. These were great for live, as well as studio, providing a cardioid pattern (helping to block out crowd noise, since the position was above the crowd, behind the conductor). But I now own a pair of the QTC30's, which have a lower noise floor, and are omni-directional (I have bigger rooms and don't do live recordings anymore).
What I favor about the individual mics, instead of mics physically paired, is that you can do more, of course. Example; for stereo drum room mics - these mics totally rock, especially with a preamp with an extended, sensitive low-end - you get the low-end "boom" of the kick, as well as the semi-smeared sizzle in all its delicate detail with those QTC's - And I spread them apart while tracking AND in the mix for that extra fat sound.
For me, I'd spend the extra $$ on high-end pre-amps.
For instrument mics, it just depends on how much detail and exactness you need. I actually wouldn't suggest the QTC's on rock drum overheads, though - okay for light jazz work. They are just too sensitive. But keep them a distance from the drums and they do pick up everything in finest detail, as I suppose the Schoeps or DPA's would.
I like what I read there. I am a male vocalist (check), and I LOVE fat bass on my acoustic. I tend to do jazzy stuff and solo acoustic, both of which I often tend to play my own bass lines, so having a fat, more bass guitar-like bass is favorable in many situations for me. The price of it ain't bad either. However, will it dull down vocals or my acoustic at all? Perhaps I should get two different mics so that I can get a wide variety of character from everything I record. Perhaps a Scheops CMC64 and an AT 4047?
I don't believe either the 4050 or the 4047 will "dull" your vocs much at all. In fact there are some who will probably argue that they might be a bit too bright or even harsh. I think it really makes a difference which preamps you use. In my mixes, I do often tend to pull some of the mids down just a wee bit, around 1KHz or so, depending upon the voice. For instruments, I usually just leave it alone.
But again, for instruments, the extra beefy low end might be too much for some of them, or just add noise to those whose frequency characteristics don't use that low end. A lot of times, the smaller diaphragms just offer more "pop"; thus the AT4041's are a better bet (or the Earthworks or the Schoeps).
However, the AKG C414XLS 's, as suggested by waxx, are large diaphragm mics that supposedly sound fantastic on a large range of instruments - their frequency response being flatter than the AT40XX mics. The AKG's have been one of the longstanding "studio standard" mics that many of us cherish. Embarrassingly, I don't own a pair of these, but they are on my "must have" list. Personally, I don't care for them on vocals all that much.
Your questions might be better answered this way:
Generally speaking, most mics that fit vocals well, don't sound quite as good on a variety of instruments. Most mics that sound great on a variety of instruments don't sound as good on vocals. There are some exceptions, of course, but they are often situation-dependent.
I don't believe either the 4050 or the 4047 will "dull" your vocs much at all. In fact there are some who will probably argue that they might be a bit too bright or even harsh. I think it really makes a difference which preamps you use. In my mixes, I do often tend to pull some of the mids down just a wee bit, around 1KHz or so, depending upon the voice. For instruments, I usually just leave it alone.
But again, for instruments, the extra beefy low end might be too much for some of them, or just add noise to those whose frequency characteristics don't use that low end. A lot of times, the smaller diaphragms just offer more "pop"; thus the AT4041's are a better bet (or the Earthworks or the Schoeps).
However, the AKG C414XLS 's, as suggested by waxx, are large diaphragm mics that supposedly sound fantastic on a large range of instruments - their frequency response being flatter than the AT40XX mics. The AKG's have been one of the longstanding "studio standard" mics that many of us cherish. Embarrassingly, I don't own a pair of these, but they are on my "must have" list. Personally, I don't care for them on vocals all that much.
Your questions might be better answered this way:
Generally speaking, most mics that fit vocals well, don't sound quite as good on a variety of instruments. Most mics that sound great on a variety of instruments don't sound as good on vocals. There are some exceptions, of course, but they are often situation-dependent.
Well, you've given your opinion concerning what you think would be best as an all-around mic, but how about this: (1) What would the best vocal mic be? (2) What would the best mic for instruments (particularly steel-string acoustic guitar) be? Perhaps I need to get separate mics for each.
Also, the AKG C414XLS and XLII both look very interesting. Does anyone have an opinion on these two mics? I've seen more reviews on the XLII, making me think it's the more popular of the two? Would these also be good for live situations?
Also, the AKG C414XLS and XLII both look very interesting. Does anyone have an opinion on these two mics? I've seen more reviews on the XLII, making me think it's the more popular of the two? Would these also be good for live situations?
The AKG C414 XLS is arguably the most versatile studiomic on this planet. Excellent neutral sound, NINE patterns, a choice of lowcuts and pads. Depending on the 'live' situation, use the hypercardioid setting.
The XLS is more neutral than the XLII which has been optimized for vocals (presence-boost). Still, In my opinion the XLS makes an excellent vocal mic as well. I just hope you're not planning to use the XLS as a live vocal mic ;-)
__________________ “Play the music, not the instrument”
The AKG C414 XLS is arguably the most versatile studiomic on this planet. Excellent neutral sound, NINE patterns, a choice of lowcuts and pads. Depending on the 'live' situation, use the hypercardioid setting.
The XLS is more neutral than the XLII which has been optimized for vocals (presence-boost). Still, In my opinion the XLS makes an excellent vocal mic as well. I just hope you're not planning to use the XLS as a live vocal mic ;-)
If you just loved these mics, the XLS would be great option for instruments; the XLII might be better suited toward vocals, due the the high end, as warned by waxx. Because I don't yet own a pair, I'm going to step out of the conversation for a while - there are others with varying (and excellent) suggestions. I don't really have a strong vote on the "best instrument mic", but for your voice, I do suggest you at least try out the 4050 / 4047... I really try not to say, "GET THIS MIC!", because you may decide you like something else better. I just happen to love it on most male vocals, and it happens to work well on certain instruments, as a bonus.
From my (short) experience, having only one mic might be a mistake.
you can grow tired of it, or it just might not be "the one" at some point.
With such a budget, I'll get a bunch of well-known good mics.
Lest say a Beyer M88Nc (old ones are awesome mics, my favorite), a SM7 or RE20, and 2 LDC (I have 2 C414-BTL II and love them, ATxx are good too), may be a ribbon (M160...).
Right now I'm leaning toward several mics with those being the AKG C414 XLS/XLII, the Schoeps CMC6 4/41, and the AT 4047. I think it will come down to how much I want to spend for now.
For a really great, inexpensive all-purpose microphone, check out the ADK A-6 Pro+ Mic Package, or simply the ADK A-6. Their flavoring is right in-line with being neutral, and fitting in the role normally occupied by the C414B-ULS, but without the patterns. This isn't to say that it is trying to be a clone of the C414. But it has it's particular character and excellent sound quality that really surprises people when they hear it - especially when they don't know what they're hearing; they always ask excitedly, "Now, which microphone is THAT?".
I'm going to mostly agree with the post that warns against using just one microphone - especially when you're doing vocals against tracks recorded with the same microphone. This isn't to say that you can't do that and still get good results. Glyn Johns tends to use U 67s and M 269s all over the place - electric guitars, drums, acoustic guitars, and vocals... and it works for him. But then again, he usually has the luxury of getting the sound to work at the source by using a different amp, guitar, acoustic, drum kit, etc. instead of having to try to use different mics or preamps to get unique separation of parts. Yes... arrangement in terms of musical arrangement as well as sonic arrangement might just be the key to recording good tracks.
But you do need some decent tools and the ADK A-6 is a great place to start for a pair of LDCs, no matter the budget, actually.
Also, another couple of thoughts that I had include the following:
3 Zigma CHI Lollipop Large Diaphragm Microphone (Transformer-Coupled Matched Pair)
These are really good sounding mics that offer the ability to swap out different capsules. You can always add capsules to change the flavor of your microphones for a minimum investment. Plus it doesn't limit you to choosing between a pair of large diaphragm mics vs small diaphragm mics - only to what you can use at a time. They offer a 3 Zigma Master Tool Kit 4X10 Microphone Kit that allows you to choose whichever combination of LDC capsules you want (A pair and two singles? All four flavors?). The kits come in two varieties of available Head-Amps: Transformerless and Transformer Coupled. When you are looking to get the most flexibility with as few pieces possible and the least amount of investment possible, the 3 Zigma mics really become no-brainers when you really take a look at them and start doing the math. Plus, they sound really good.
These mics are used all over the "Wynton Marsalis and Eric Clapton Play The Blues" DVD and CD from Lincoln Center, NYC. Plus, they've been on tour with Wynton for about 3 years running, now. You can see/hear them here:
Marty Stuart uses the C-LOL-12 for his acoustic guitar.
Recording Hacks chose the C-LOL-67 (w/ HA-FX - transformer balanced head-amp) as the Ultimate Live Saxophone Microphone.
3 Zigma has won the PAR Excellence Award for Innovation - 2008.
Anyways, just a thought. Have any questions, feel free to PM me.
For *versatility*, you can't beat the better 414s. Don't get either of those listed, though — save your pennies and get a better mic by going second hand.
Some of those with the brass capsule come up from time to time and if you can find those then bag them. If you can't find those, go for the C414 B-ULS. Steer clear of all those that are called XL or TL anything. The B denotes true back electret design. The C414 XLS, you'll notice, has no 'B'. It's a very clever design, and pretty bloody good, but to my ears just slightly less good.
You might also see SE4400a mics and think "hey, they look like 414 rip-offs". They're rip-offs in style only. That said, they're actually nice, and versatile mics. And the second hand price, as with so much SE stuff, is ridiculously low. Saw a pair go for £300 and at that price they're great.
Another wildcard is the CAD Equitek E200. One of my favourite multi-pattern mics. Again, discontinued, I think, so you'd have to go second hand.
Also - jazz? Had you thought about going for a ribbon mic or two? Coles 4038 should suit you down to the ground!
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