Why is my Roland Space Echo wobbly?

[James Guitar]

hi:
my RE-501 is experiencing severe tape wobble. i've had the thing serviced but nothing has been found (i take that "service" with a grain of salt, though). another tech mentioned that my tape might be shot. anybody have any experience with wobbly echo that wasn't caused by an inconsistent motor (or even any experience with one caused by an inconsistent motor)? any replies would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
-J

[Led]

Old tape makes it wobble, the oxide wears off or otherwise gets sticky. Did you clean the heads and rollers in the tape path? Try a new tape, it maks a big difference.

[Sounds Great]

You had it serviced without replacing the tape? tutt

The tape is perhaps the most important component of these machines. It needs to be replaced often if you use the unit a lot. At least 3 or 4 times a year (or more under heavy use). I have a Multivox Multi-Echo that uses the same tape. I've had it since 1979.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...le=roland+tape

[James Guitar]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

You had it serviced without replacing the tape? tutt

that's why i was saying *don't get me started on the service* that i got. i won't get into it but he did a partial service before he decided he was getting out of the tape echo repairing game and then returned it to me as was!

will def look for new tape. thanks.
-J

[scraggs]

fwiw it seems like the tape gets wobbly a lot quicker if you're hitting it really hard...which i generally do because it sounds good...but anyway i'm talking a couple hours of use before it gets too wobbly. you'll hear it. i just keep a reel of 456 handy and make a new loop when it starts to go. kind of a pain but it's worth it for the tone....

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by scraggs

i just keep a reel of 456 handy and make a new loop when it starts to go. kind of a pain but it's worth it for the tone....

But that is not the right type of tape. The actual Roland RT1L tapes (or correct replacement tape) has a lubrication on it that the standard 456 tape does not. It will work but will wear out pretty quickly.

[James Guitar]

Has anyone had any experience with the new version of the Roland tape that Melmusic puts out?
go here to see what i'm talking about
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLAND-RT1L-Spac...QQcmdZViewItem

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by James Guitar

Has anyone had any experience with the new version of the Roland tape that Melmusic puts out?
go here to see what i'm talking about
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLAND-RT1L-Spac...QQcmdZViewItem

That seems like too much money. I see off brand replacements cheaper than that.

[James Guitar]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

That seems like too much money. I see off brand replacements cheaper than that.

cool, thanks. any specific recommendations?
-J

[jdg]

i have the tape from rankus there on ebay for my 201

works great. but the splice is very loud.

from another user who owns original NOS roland tape, their splice is invisable. YMMV tho

[hociman]

The Muppets used a Roland Space Echo

[James Guitar]

Originally Posted by jdg

i have the tape from rankus there on ebay for my 201
works great. but the splice is very loud.from another user who owns original NOS roland tape, their splice is invisable. YMMV tho

re: rankus - go canada. is the splice heard even when it's just running quiet?
re NOS Roland: i've heard from various sources (some not so solid) that the NOS tapes have lost their lube due to age... i have no proof to support or refute that though...

re: muppets - HAHAHAHAHA.
-J

[jdg]

no.. i cant hear the splice when silent.
just when it hits it u get teh "splice" effect...

really noticable at higher speeds as the tape loop is kinda short.. my first loop was really really long.. i dont know if it was original (bought the machien used) or what... but it took forever to get to the splice.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by jdg

no.. i cant hear the splice when silent.
just when it hits it u get teh "splice" effect...

really noticable at higher speeds as the tape loop is kinda short.. my first loop was really really long.. i dont know if it was original (bought the machien used) or what... but it took forever to get to the splice.

I've never heard the splice using the Roland tapes, which I still have a few left of. I bought ten of them like 6 or 7 years ago for about 30 bucks each.

Many years ago I tried making my own loops and then the splice definitely was an issue.

[Jazzpunk]

So what is the best type of replacement tape to buy for these units? What exactly is the lubrication anyway?

[mitchell]

I had a 201 with similar wobbling issues, had the tape replaced, had it serviced, and it was NEVER right. The repair guy demo'd it on his bench, and it seemed fine, then I'd get it home and it wobbled. Don't know if it was motor/power supply issue or what, but I finally gave up and sold the f**ckr...

mitchell

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by mitchell

I had a 201 with similar wobbling issues, had the tape replaced, had it serviced, and it was NEVER right. The repair guy demo'd it on his bench, and it seemed fine, then I'd get it home and it wobbled. Don't know if it was motor/power supply issue or what, but I finally gave up and sold the f**ckr...

mitchell

Yes, it sounds like it could be the motor. The motor in mine (Multivox) just quit one day, and I had it replaced. Think it cost me about a 150? That was about 1996. Still going strong. thumbsup

[jdg]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

I've never heard the splice using the Roland tapes, which I still have a few left of. I bought ten of them like 6 or 7 years ago for about 30 bucks each.

Many years ago I tried making my own loops and then the splice definitely was an issue.

PM me if u want to sell a loop or two!

[Jazzpunk]

No one can recommend a current brand of tape that is best suited for the Space Echo?

[TAVD]

I bought some spare Roland loops when I bought my echo back in the 80's. I tried my last one a few years ago and it only sounded alright, not like the 1st tape I had. It only sounded alright for a short time before it turned to crap. There might be some truth to the suggestion that the NOS tapes aren't so great. I don't use the echo much now but I did order some new tape and will let you know how it sounds.

[chetatkinsdiet]

I bought a few of the OZ replacements and they're great. It's such a pain to make your own, just get these as it's much easier. Or get a maestro where you can still get the tapes in cartridges from Ernie Ball. Much easier. Not to say one's better than the other. I like having both.

m

[KarlHoffmann]

re: the wobble.....

1) if the pinchroller doesn't engage the capstan with enough force, you'll get wow. try gently pressing the pinchroller toward capstan and see if it stops.

2) if the pinchroller bearing is getting funky, you'll also get this problem. does the pr spin freely? on my 201, i had to clean out the old sticky lubricant. time and dust had turned it to glue.

good luck, karl

[James Guitar]

thanks, karl. i will check those out early next week and report the findings.
-J

[James Guitar]

so, i got a couple different sets of lubricated tape and installed one the other day. no wobble so far!
but now i find that i get three repeats back on my sound and then it's gone!
by that i mean, i can roll the intensity to full (where i should be hearing that awesome tape echo repeated feedback) but all i get are three lousy repeats, each one quieter than the last. anybody ever had this problem? i've been wrestling with this damn RE-501 for a year! thinking about jacking it and getting a fulltone (or making more use of my yamaha e1005) but i want to spend just...a...little...more...time.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
-J

[dbbubba]

The new tape might be different enough to require a new bias setting.
The original supplied Roland tapes were pretty much specifically designed for that machine.
That is the reason I would even want to see one on my doorstep, but I must admit that I do have a VERY, VERY early solidstate Echoplex.
It is VERY, VERY hard to keep running smoothly, too.
It just looks cool!

Take heed in what SOUNDS GOOD said:

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE MAKE TAPES WITH AMPEX 456 OR ANY OTHER NON-LUBRICATED TAPE! My friend ruined one way back in the '70s when he decided to install 456. It sounded good for a short while and then even with anew Roland tape it was never right again.

I don't see how those things still have any headlife left anyways!
When did they last make them?
The heads were not that good and that is HOURS AND HOURS of tape running over them!

It sounds like the wobble is related to slippage between the capstan and the pinch roller. If the pinch roller gets hard due to age tape will slip. If the capstan gets too slick it will loose traction (a common problem with Studers.)
The tape generally moves in the tape cartridge pretty well.

Hey! I use that wobble to my advantage on my Echoplex!
The Beatles (Geoof Emerick) purposely made their echos wobbly by winding splice tape all over the capstan!

Maybe it's a good thing!

Danny Brown

[James Guitar]

that's all good info but the fact of the matter is that the heads were working and regenerating fine *yesterday* with the old (wobbly) tape. it's something to do with the new tape and its relation to the machine, not about the age of the heads or people using ampex 456 tape (which i'm not). anybody had this problem when they installed replacement tape?
-J

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by James Guitar

that's all good info but the fact of the matter is that the heads were working and regenerating fine *yesterday* with the old (wobbly) tape. it's something to do with the new tape and its relation to the machine, not about the age of the heads or people using ampex 456 tape (which i'm not). anybody had this problem when they installed replacement tape?
-J

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Check to see that the tape is threaded properly, they can be tricky. Also, are you sure the right side of the tape is going across the heads? Sounds like it might be upside down.

[James Guitar]

will do. thanks for that advice. will report back.
-J

[scraggs]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Take heed in what SOUNDS GOOD said:

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE MAKE TAPES WITH AMPEX 456 OR ANY OTHER NON-LUBRICATED TAPE! My friend ruined one way back in the '70s when he decided to install 456. It sounded good for a short while and then even with anew Roland tape it was never right again.

que?

i've had 456 or gp9 on mine for years and years and it's fine.

[mbrebes]

Originally Posted by scraggs

fwiw it seems like the tape gets wobbly a lot quicker if you're hitting it really hard...which i generally do because it sounds good...but anyway i'm talking a couple hours of use before it gets too wobbly. you'll hear it. i just keep a reel of 456 handy and make a new loop when it starts to go. kind of a pain but it's worth it for the tone....

Unfortunately, this is a total fallacy. The only way that tape can affect "wobble" is by physically wearing out so that it does not ride consistently across the metal surfaces or the surface of the pinch roller. That kind of wear has nothing to do with, and is not affected by, recording of sound on the tape.

There are only three things that can cause "wobble":
1. Worn tape, which has been discussed already.
2. Tape path problems. This can be because of dirt/oxide, worn metal parts, or misaligned or hardened pinch roller.
3. Capstan motor is dying!

Hopefully it's not the motor.

Hope that helps.