One or two subwoofers?

[steins]

OK, I´ve finally got a control room big enough to handle subwoofers. I know most people use just one because bass-frequencies are omni-directional and so on. Is there any advantages of using two? Or will it be more problems placing them to avoid phase issues and such? I just like to see equal number of speakers on each side...

BTW, my speakers are ADAM S3A and I´m going for the Sub10mkII. Stereo only, no 5.1.

Stein Tore

[Ethan Winer]

Stein,

> I´ve finally got a control room big enough to handle subwoofers ... my speakers are ADAM S3A and I´m going for the Sub10mkII. Stereo only, no 5.1. <

With those speakers, I don't see why you even need a subwoofer. Those are spec'd as flat (-3 dB) to 32 Hz, which is plenty low for music. If you were doing surround mixing for movies a subwoofer would be necessary.

One subwoofer is usually fine, but some people prefer two. With two there's a potential to get a slightly flatter response, because you can place each to balance the peak and null frequencies of the other. But as you suggested, there's also more chance for errors due to the different distances and different arrival times. In fact, this is why I usually recommend against adding a sub unless it's truly needed. Around the crossover frequency you have the same LF content coming from the left and right speakers, and from a sub, all at different distances.

--Ethan

[steins]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Stein,

> I´ve finally got a control room big enough to handle subwoofers ... my speakers are ADAM S3A and I´m going for the Sub10mkII. Stereo only, no 5.1. <

With those speakers, I don't see why you even need a subwoofer. Those are spec'd as flat (-3 dB) to 32 Hz, which is plenty low for music. If you were doing surround mixing for movies a subwoofer would be necessary.

One subwoofer is usually fine, but some people prefer two. With two there's a potential to get a slightly flatter response, because you can place each to balance the peak and null frequencies of the other. But as you suggested, there's also more chance for errors due to the different distances and different arrival times. In fact, this is why I usually recommend against adding a sub unless it's truly needed. Around the crossover frequency you have the same LF content coming from the left and right speakers, and from a sub, all at different distances.

--Ethan

Thanks,

The reason I want a sub for the S3A´s is because I want to know what´s going on all the way down. Just to make sure that everything is OK. I hate suprises ;-).

I also have a pair of JBL LSR28P´s , which in my room seem to go an octave lower than the S3A´s. The S3A´s don´t reveal things like acoustic-guitarist-nose-breathe-into-microphone, really low pops and such. I´d like the S3A´s to go as deep as the LSR28P, because I mix better using the S3A´s. Well, maybe not better, but my mixes translates a lot better.

And 5.1 is coming to my studio too, so I might just as well be ready...

Stein Tore

[ddageek]

I have always prefered 2 positioned near the main moniters otherwise i can always locatw the sub!
rember to audition subs in your room with your monitors!
one of the bigest problems with most subs is the region near the crossover point where both the sub(s) and the mains are both working the "best subs" and the"best monitors" can have some strange interaction problems!

[theblue1]

Interesting the JBL's seem to have more bass to you... according to the JBL specs they're down 3 dB at 46 Hz and drop rapidly from there... almost enough to make me wonder about bass issues in your room... but a review I read elsewhere suggested the specs (and the size of the woofer at 8") were belied by apparent big bass response [even as he suggested they were some of the flatter speakers he'd heard]... so... it's interesting...

[steins]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Interesting the JBL's seem to have more bass to you... according to the JBL specs they're down 3 dB at 46 Hz and drop rapidly from there... almost enough to make me wonder about bass issues in your room... but a review I read elsewhere suggested the specs (and the size of the woofer at 8") were belied by apparent big bass response [even as he suggested they were some of the flatter speakers he'd heard]... so... it's interesting...

Yes, it doesn´t make sense, does it? The ADAMs are supposed to go lower (32Hz -3dB versus the LSR 46Hz -3dB), but I can tell you, they don't perform that way in my studio. I don't get that bottom octave from the S3As. I've measured the room, and there is nothing indicating any big dips or peaks in that frequecy region at the listingen position using either speakers.

I've also got 5 of Ethan Winers Realtraps and 3 MiniTraps, which did wonders for my room. I'm gonna do some more research on this.

Stein Tore

[-Noodles-]

Bob Katz recommends leaving the speakers to perform naturally (no low cuts on the back) and then tune the sub to what isn't being naturally produced.

I've never used a 2.1 system, only a 5.1 system - and I gotta say that even on down tuned rock - the sub was only *just* working... Good monitors are what I'd rather use.

[seriousfun]

A second subwoofer, depending on placement, can add between 3 and 6 dB of headroom in the bottom two octaves. If one subwoofer provides flat response in that range but not enough clean output, a second subwoofer next to or on top of the first can couple the subwoofers for more output - up to 6 dB. If they are located apart from one another (and have proper polarity alignment), they can add about 3 dB of headroom.

In a minority of rooms, a second location can be found where the second subwoofer's frequency response can complement that of the first, filling in dips in the response of the first for flatter overall response.

Dr. Floyd Toole, ex-JBL, has done research on using two subwoofers and has concluded that stereo subwoofers lend a better sense of envelopment. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion, at least not for monitoring, but you might want to look at his work.

[Throttler]

two is better than one. you can solve many cancellation resonance and placement problems and completely minimize distortion

p.s. I agree with you on getting a sub. 20Hz is there. Are you?

[peat]

Originally Posted by Throttler

20Hz is there. Are you?

fantastic quote !!!!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by steins

OK, I´ve finally got a control room big enough to handle subwoofers. I know most people use just one because bass-frequencies are omni-directional and so on. Is there any advantages of using two? Or will it be more problems placing them to avoid phase issues and such? I just like to see equal number of speakers on each side...

BTW, my speakers are ADAM S3A and I´m going for the Sub10mkII. Stereo only, no 5.1.

Stein Tore

One.
I have a pair of JBL 6328 ps and a Tannoy 10 inch sub.

BTW..Encore studio b has FOUR 18 inch subs from the days that Dr Dre had the room locked out.
I switched them on once and I felt like that dude in the Maxell add where the wind swept him off his seat.