Help: Weird tinnitus (?) problem

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by Soundseed

Hi all

About two months ago, I came down with a colf/flu type thing. My left ear in particular became really bunged up, and I started to notice a strange kind of "blurring" effect with low frequency sounds.. almost like external LF sounds at any distance were originating in the ear canal. Very strange.... I put it down down to the cold, but as it cleared the problem persisted and changed to a near continuous low frequency hum down around the 100hz mark.

A bit concerned (putting it mildly), I saw an ENT specialist who checked my hearing, did the usual conductive and pressure tests and declared all to be fine. This is not what I expected, so I hassled her a bit and she checked my ears out again, this time using a micro camera thing to show me my ear canal and drums. All seemed fine, so no explanation.

As time has gone on I've noticed some pretty strange stuff about the hum:

It seems like its being expanded with a 1/2 second or so release time: For example, in the presence of music or if I talk it noticeably diminishes, and then returns to original level with ambient room noise - definitely not a masking effect.

If I move my head around there seem to be points where it disappears. On some occassions if I turn my head hard left or right it disappears.

If I cover my ear, it diminishes significantly.

I've asked my GP again about this, and basically he's not too interested in helping out: "a problem with your tubes?" is how he put it. Grrrr. I've asked some friends in the medic trade and they came up with arterial stenosis (apparently very unlikley), or acoustic neuroma (likewise unlikely).

So I'm completely at a loss as to what to do next, finding it difficult to work and the schedule's badly backed up. The only other factor I can see, as I take care of my ears, is having a crown fitted while I had the cold... even then, the root work was in place several weeks before the cold appeared.

So, anyone out there ever encountered anything like this?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Chris

Hey partner, same thing here.
Mine is the right ear !
With cold the thing worst a little, in my case.
The bass/midlle sounds looks like bossted a litlle than the left ear. ( Yes, i clean up ears each day ! )
My left hear always ok.
I live with this fact around 10 years !
A doctor said once is normal left/right body parts be a little bit different in performances !
I did not want go deeper in medical opinions/examination because each doctor will tell a different diagnostic like GS people talking about mic/pre performance. e . I hope you find the reason and do the cure. Good luck and Avoyd paranoia !
Peace.

[Joey Walnuts]

Have you tried a nasal de-congestant.
i.e Benedril or Comtrex d 12.I believe these will take the pressure away.
Might be temperary though.

Good Luck.......

[Barish]

Could it be a sort of eustachian tube disorder? Did you guys lose some weight recently by any chance?

Sometimes losing weight in a strict diet in short period after a long period of carrying around that fat under the skin causes the ear channels to shrink and that's when the micronic hair inside the tube starts giving you the jib. It happened to a relative of mine.

B.

[neekolas]

Same issue here. I am seeing an ENT tommorow to see if they can help at all. Did a hearing/pressure test yesterday with an audiologist (only measured up to 8k) and both ears were fine.
I have seen an ENT before and he suggested Nasonex and an ungodly amount of water intake
The thing that sucks about my particular case is that transients (particularly snare hits) are more easily picked up by the unaffected ear. Screws up the stereo image.
Doctors can be so dismissive in these matters. Pisses me off.

[rjd2]

same exact story here.

-mine came from an incident while on tour, where i got very, very ill, and found myself five feet from a monitor that was way too loud. woke up the next day, and had ringing for the next 3 weeks, mostly in my right ear. same deal, had my hearing checked, they said nothings wrong. i get a ringing in my right ear if im exposed to loud sounds now.

-i have been recommended that diet can help this. i was told that cutting out caffiene and alcohol completely can have drastic results in helping. i have not tried the caffiene yet. you should.

-DEFINITELY BUY YOURSELF THE CUSTOM EARPLUGS. BEST 150 I EVER SPENT.

[MattiMattMatt]

Get thee to an ear doctor - otologist!

I had a problem last year, I went to a specialist, and he put this equipment in my ear and water-blasted a bunch of gunk out of there. High pressure water treatment solved the problem.

These guys - the specialists, not your gp - are EARslutz. They have all this fancy gear now that they can use to clean out your ear. And they know what they're doing, they're not going to puncture anything. So all this nasty shit that builds up in there over the years - they can zap it away.

You leave hearing better overall. Think of it like an upgrade to your monitoring system!

Anyway, that can solve a bunch of problems. And if there is something else wrong, they would be the ones to figure it out too.

-matt.

[swankdoc]

I be a doc, *but all things discussed here is strictly non medical advice, and should never be taken as a substitute for seeing your doctor. *

problem: spontaneous unilateral (one sided) tinnitus:
especially following a cold most likely explanation would be "eustacian tube dysfunction"
reference 1

reference 2

If we had a crystal ball and could prove thats really the cause, decongestants and other meds including steroids etc, in my experience dont help at all. The only real fix is time which allows the eust. tube to return to normal function and can take anywhere from weeks to several months.
Unless there was a memorable obvious noise or blast injury, your problem is unlikely to be caused by noise exposure and would continue to seek another cause.
Acoustic neuroma is a possiblity and would consider recheking with your doc to consider MRI of acoustic nerve.
Consider second opinion from EENT /audiologist esp one that specializes in tinnitus.
There are metabolic (blood / physiologic) causes of tinnitus. ex. Aspirin ingestion is a common one, and is found in a lot of cold remedies (salicylic acid derivatives). Perhaps you had taken some aspirin products during your cold or are currently taking it?
The artery idea is interesting. Typically the tinnitus from that condition (narrowed carotid artery) is a pulsatile or a repetative "swishing" sound), unlikely imo to be a constant buzz.

Just some thoughts, and hope you get better.

[CassidyGT]

The Taos Hum!!

[neekolas]

Good to see some responses on this. Quick question: do you think leaving a fan on at night could potentially be a bad thing? It is obviously a very low level spl but it is constant and could irritate tinnitus or fatigue the ear?
The audiologist officially says "No!" but I really notice my tinnitus in the morning. Off to see the ENT tomorrow.

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by swankdoc

I be a doc, *but all things discussed here is strictly non medical advice, and should never be taken as a substitute for seeing your doctor. *

problem: spontaneous unilateral (one sided) tinnitus:
especially following a cold most likely explanation would be "eustacian tube dysfunction"
reference 1

reference 2

If we had a crystal ball and could prove thats really the cause, decongestants and other meds including steroids etc, in my experience dont help at all. The only real fix is time which allows the eust. tube to return to normal function and can take anywhere from weeks to several months.

<snip>

Just some thoughts, and hope you get better.

Hey folks

Thanks for all the pointers and ideas - much appreciated, and at the same time sad to see how many folks in music related professions are afflicted by hearing problems :-(

For me, Swankdoc's suggestion of eustachian tube dysfunction seems the most likely. The way the hum disappears in certain circumstances seems to suggest my eust. tube is at minimum having some problem opening and closing properly, maybe combined with some undischarged mucus??

I don't know if this affects anyone else, but when flying I get the most excrutiating headaches, so perhaps there was a previous problem which has worsened or been triggered by the cold episode.

I've got photos of my ear canal and drums, which show them to be healthy and clear of wax or mucus. I've got young kids, who often produce higher spl's than anything I encounter in the studio, but I know the warning signs well and avoid close contact at these times :-)

I'm going to rule out the Taos noise, cause I only get it in one ear, and it cant always be on the left surely?

Anyway I will bepressuring my GP to get a truly specialised second opinion, and maybe an MRI if that could reveal any probs with the tubes. Fingers crossed!

Thanks again everyone - great folks, great forum!

Cheers
Chris

[swankdoc]

An MRI will not help with the dx of Eust tube dysf (ETD). That is a functional disorder / not an anatomical one.
The MRI is strictly looking at the acoustic nerve to eval for a tumor on the nerve.
ETD really is a dx of exclusion; meaning, once everything else is ruled out, then it is presumed. I know of no way to definitively test for it. Occasionally, a person will have an abnormal tympanogram. Thats a test where a doc uses a device that tries to gently move your eardrum with air pressure. IF the eust tube is blocked, then the eardrum (tympanic membrane) wont move freely, and its demonstrated on the test. Its a simple office device, most docs have one (tympanogram). They just help to make the argument for ETD, but again, not conclusive.

[Mike Caffrey]

Define eustachian tube disorder. That's not a diagnosis. It's half a step away from saying you have an ear disorder.

I can't say tha I am 100% fluent in the mechanics of the eustachian tubes, but I'm oretty sure that they don't "open and close".

Considering that what set this off was a cold, the most likely cause is congestion. The fact the the position of your head changes things, that's an indication that something is moving and there aren't whole lot of moving parts in there. wihtout a spefic trauma to break something, again the most likely thing is congestion/muscous from your sinuses.

Throw in the time of year and it may be exacerbated by allergies.

I'd try a maximum dose of sudafed for at least three days. I might try some nasal decongestant at a minimal does, combines with a hot steamy shower or two and as much nose blowing as possible, but not hard enough to make my ears pop.

I'd recommend that you consult you doctor before trying what I'd try.


Have you been swimming at all recently?

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Define eustachian tube disorder. That's not a diagnosis. It's half a step away from saying you have an ear disorder.

I can't say tha I am 100% fluent in the mechanics of the eustachian tubes, but I'm oretty sure that they don't "open and close".

This comes from emedecine.com ...

"The eustachian tube (pharyngotympanic tube) connects the middle ear cavity with the nasopharynx. It aerates the middle ear system and clears mucus from the middle ear into the nasopharynx. Opening and closing functions of the eustachian tube are physiologically and pathologically important".

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Have you been swimming at all recently?

No... I don't feel particularly congested either. But maybe a few saunas would be a good idea even if only for the relaxation ... who knows? :-)

Cheers
Chris

[hociman]

Reading this thread has piqued my curiousity in something related to hearing. I would say the first time I noticed a problem was 11/2000. I had my ears washed out (someone described the procedure in a previous post), and my hearing improved slightly, but the complaint (tinnitus) wasn't addressed by it. I went to an ENT, was told to get some stuff done, and then life happened (so it didn't get done).

Let's jump to 09/2002. It was a Sunday afternoon, about 3 PM. I had to go a few blocks down the street to the laundromat. I walked out of one room in my apartment and turned a corner to continue on my way out. As I turned the corner, the room shifted...severely. I drank some water, looked myself over in the mirror, and figured I'm probably not dying (had a physical a month prior), and went about the day. I then got myself to an ENT at Beth Israel in NYC.

I had quite a few tests done. One with electrodes on my head where I had to follow a red LED with my eyes, and I was told to follow the LED on the wall a certain way. Without looking at me, the test administrator said "Don't follow it like that!". That freaked me out. I was amazed that they could tell how I was moving my eyes by looking at a printout. Another one used a device that filled my ear with either hot or cold air, and then they measured the response. I was told not to eat the morning of the test, and with good reason. This particular test was supposed to make me feel like I was spinning. It did, but only with one type of air, and only in one ear. The test administrator said I would feel that way with that type of air in both ears prior to having it done, but when I had results that contradicted that, they blew it off as normal.

In the end, I had no explanation for my tinnitus (again) or my bout of vertigo. Go figure.

Lately, I have noticed in normal activity that I suddenly hear the level of the tinnitus in an ear rise up for about a minute, then fade back down. I have also noticed on occasion that the loudness of the tinnitus is related to my pulse. Has anyone else experienced these two phenomena?

[rjd2]

"Lately, I have noticed in normal activity that I suddenly hear the level of the tinnitus in an ear rise up for about a minute, then fade back down. I have also noticed on occasion that the loudness of the tinnitus is related to my pulse. Has anyone else experienced these two phenomena?"

my right ear tinnitus(or whatever) does exactly this. not the pulse thing though.

also, it would probably be a good idea for us all to ask around to people who do not work in music. maybe this is just a normal part of aging, and we are just hypersensitive.

[hociman]

Originally Posted by rjd2

maybe this is just a normal part of aging, and we are just hypersensitive.

If that's the case, I'll be dead at fifty.

[dementedchord]

it is part of aging and the hypersensitivity is the psychic unacceptability of the whole scenario..... visions of deaf beethovens everywhere ...

[shaggseb]

Originally Posted by hociman

In the end, I had no explanation for my tinnitus (again) or my bout of vertigo. Go figure.

it can be the Ménière disease

http://oto.wustl.edu/men/

seb

[Ruudman]

Originally Posted by Soundseed

almost like external LF sounds at any distance were originating in the ear canal. Very strange.... ..
--------------
.. a near continuous low frequency hum down around the 100hz mark.
--------------
I saw an ENT specialist who checked my hearing, did the usual conductive and pressure tests and declared all to be fine. This is not what I expected, so I hassled her a bit and she checked my ears out again, this time using a micro camera thing to show me my ear canal and drums. All seemed fine, so no explanation.
--------------
..As time has gone on I've noticed some pretty strange stuff about the hum:

It seems like its being expanded with a 1/2 second or so release time: For example, in the presence of music or if I talk it noticeably diminishes, and then returns to original level with ambient room noise - definitely not a masking effect.
--------------
..So, anyone out there ever encountered anything like this?
Chris

I have exactely the same 'LF decay' in my left ear.
When it's quiet I sometimes almost freak out; I can gently tap two fingers against eachother, and they will sound like 'boooom' in my left ear

I've had problems with air pressure since I was a kid, though.

ruudman

[theom]

I had a specialist tell me he had luck with an intermitant tinitus patient with a week worth of benedril, followed by a week of 2 325mg tabs of asperine every 4 to 6 hours.

He said there were plenty of studies that show asperine as CAUSING agravated tinitus. But there was a new study that showed possible "reseting" of inner ear issues related to long relatively high dosed of asperine. The tinitus got better a few days after the week of asperine was done.

Not sure if this would help your problem, but I thought it was worth sharing.

It can be dangerous though so always check with your doc.

[psytechguy]

I've had tinnitus in both ears that rings constantly for about the last 25 years. Too many loud gigs, loud shows I attended, working in an automotive shop in my youth, and a lifelong marksmanship hobby.

Needless to say, I have earplugs and silencers for all occasions!

Bottom line is this:

If your ears ring after exposure to a detrimental noise, you've already done damage. That damage is cumulative and is non-reversable. As far as I know there are no proven cures. Believe me, I've looked!

Protect your ears!!

Protect your ears!!

Protect your ears!!

Aspirin, as well as alcohol, are all in a class of what are called "ototoxic" substances. They will make your ears ring.

That said, I've pretty much learned to live with it. It's no fun, but I do have a pitch reference for tuning!

[MattiMattMatt]

You know, we can put so much time, effort and money into setting up a great monitoring environment in our studios, but if our ears are off, it kind of defeats a lot of that. I guess I'm thinking out loud, but I should probably go back to the ear doctor just for maintanence sake. It's probably a good investment for all of us audio types to see these guys regularly.

-matt

[midnightsun]

The human ear is taken for granted by most people until they start to experience changes or loses. Think about what is physically happening. Acoustic energy is being transduced such that the acoustic portion of the brain perceives "sound." The steps in this transduction are far more complicated that the audio pathways through a mic, preamp, converters, etc. The worst of all of this is that the components are living tissues that are subject to change. I am not running to the defense of ENT docs but they hear thousands of complaints and descriptions of ear problems. Their goal is usually to not miss a major problem such as a tumor or to miss a problem that they can actually do something about.

The sad reality is that there is no consistent scientific cure for what you all are describing. If you are so inclined study the anatomy and physiology of the ear. Check with a physician to make sure that there isn't anything "really" bad going on. If the "bad" things are ruled out then turn to a wholistic approach and listen to your body. For starters rid your body of all chemicals that have been suspected of causing hearing or inner ear problems. I don't mean cut down..... I mean STOP ALL CAFFEINE, ALCOHOL, NICOTINE, ASPRIN, ETC. I know that most people can't change their habits-- they look outward for answers and fail to do the obvious. As a surgeon I have told many a person that he/she would lose a limb if he/she didn't quit smoking. A year later the first thing they think of when they awaken from the amputation operation is where they can smoke. I have cared for hundreds of people who end up dying because they can't change a habit.

Most would rather spend 3000 dollars on a medical workup rather then do the obvious. How much does an MRI cost? I mean no disrespect to anyone. I am human and love coffee. Again, STOP ALL CAFFEINE, ALCOHOL, NICOTINE, ASPRIN, ETC. There is no guarantee that this will work but it is an intelligent place to start.

[redroom]

Ive had a very similar problem for nearly three years now I was given a steroid spry which actually gave short tem relief but made the problem come back worse.Arfter a year of being told this and that by the NHS they eventually gave me a scan.They found that my sinus was not working and offered an operation which I decided not to take.The problem is much better now than it used to be by cutting out certain foods and keeping dust levels down.

[buchiach]

Originally Posted by Soundseed

The only other factor I can see, as I take care of my ears, is having a crown fitted while I had the cold... even then, the root work was in place several weeks before the cold appeared.


Chris

i could be wrong, but i have heard that problems with teeth can cause tinitus. apparently teeth vibrate or something...

[mitchell]

I used to have low frequency hums all the time, and this is the first time I've ever seen it addressed. I still have a mild amount of high frequency ringing. I suspect that kicking the coffee habit is what made the LF hum go away (I don't drink or smoke. I'm not mormon or amish :>)

mitchell

[frixion]

Yeah! That's a topic I'm really an expert.
I've been suffering "normal" tinnitus (left and right) for about 15 years (mostly due to load music) and sometimes had the issues in the begining that some LF sounds were "resonating" and causing a low tinnitus "hum". But that was very seldomly happening.
After some years, a LF "siren-like" tinnitus appeared (after a very loud gig, where I forgot my ear protection), but that could be "cured" with imediate medical treatment.
Strangely the overall tinnitus'es were gettin' a little bit better three years ago 'till April 04, where I forced myself to work some hours permanently with headphones on a remix (not loud at all, but rarely breaks), while being sick (the tubes were surely stuffed back then).
So I experienced the worst thing that IMHO could happen to a musician: Hyperaccusis (plus normal old tinnitus). I couldn't really make music for months 'cause my ears were much too sensitive. Plus the old resonating thing was gettin' back, but now daily!
But I learned to live with it, visited most of all local ear-doctors in Vienna, that couldn't help me, but mostly didn't give a fuxx at all.fuuck
Then some months ago I the Hyperaccusis was gettin' so bad for some days that I couldn't go out 'cause normal speech volume was like pain and the sink noise like a waterfall. But that was gone after 3 days and I could live on.
Then I decided to train my neck and back muscles whish really helped a little.
I also noticed that my tinnitus has something to do with my jaw/teeth, but didn't find a competent dentist yet, that really knows these connections.
It would be exaggereted to say that I really can cope with all these stuff (Hyperaccusis and the resonating stuff is really anoying), but WTH? Live goes on, so I can only mix at lower volumes than my collegues and have to avoid boosting frequencies from 50-150hz (sometimes even a lowcut is neccessary for my ears) 'cause that causes something in my inner ear to make that resonating tinnitus.

If you fell asleep during this long text..it's OK.

Cheers,
The master of ear desaster Phil

[RecAcoustic]

Thought I'd jump into the fray, here.

I've been suffering from Meniere's Disease (or some variant) for about a year now. It is a condition affecting the inner ear and associated nerves. The primary marker for the condition is extreme fluid build-up in ones inner ear.

I don't want to be a fear monger, but it's been pretty miserable.

Primary symptoms for me are:

1. Moderate tinnitus in both ears 24/7, most noticeable when I'm trying to go to sleep. Intermittent extreme tinnitus, usually after exposure to loud db.

2. Double ear-ache, usually a feeling of strong pressure in both ears with intermittent ice-pick jabs.

3. Vertigo. Sometimes this manifests itself as a feeling like a muscle spasm in my head. Other times I feel like I'm moving when I'm not moving, like the feeling you get after getting back on land after being out on the ocean for a few hours. Some people have such severe vertigo that they literally have trouble sensing which way is up or down, and they can fall flat on their faces with no warning.

4. General disorientation. Closest analogy I can think of is that Twilight Zone feeling you get when you're battling a high fever.

I have other symptoms, but you get the general idea.

I've seen several doctors and have been through hours and hours of tests. So, let me clear a few things up for any of you who think you may suffer from Meniere's.

First of all, don't let anyone tell you that they know what causes it. Rather than 'disease' a more appropriate category for Meniere's is syndrome (a pattern of symptoms indicative of some disease). Because that's just what it is...many different symptoms.

There are all kinds of theories about causes, from severe allergies to an auto-immune deficiency, but they really don't know with any certainty if there is one primary cause or a group of causes.

Secondly, they really aren't sure how to treat the problem. More likely they'll try addressing your symptoms to see if they can give you some relief that way.

They've had me try all kinds of things in a search for that magic bullet, but with little success. I'm currently taking a diuretic and am on a highly restrictive diet that removes the dozens of food items I'm allergic to. I've read that this is the answer for many people, but so far it's done little for me except help me lose a little weight.

Next step is putting tubes in my ears.

I could go on and on, but let me finish by offering one bit of advice: If you're experiencing tinnitus of any kind, or any of the other symptoms I've described above, go to an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist immediately. Go through whatever tests they recommend and jump through all the hoops for treatment they suggest.

I wouldn't wish what I'm going through on anybody.

Notice that I mention nothing about audio and recording? It's because I'm not doing anything sound related...haven't for months. That can be YOU if you don't take care of your general health and your ears.

[guerillamixer]

RecAcoustic,

I feel for you, I have a close friend who is an amazing musician, and has lost a heck of a lot of his hearing with meniers. When we were kids he was always the most musical one, plays beautiful guitar, sings like an angel, but has days where he can't hear squat. The incredible thing is he has just recently started finishing of his tunes, mostly from memory, with help from friends.

http://www.myspace.com/postherdmusic

check out "desiraling a glimpse"

he's playing guitar, but someone else has to tune it!