Pre-mastering mix translation -- 2 puzzles

[bobby yarrow]

When I think of 'mix translation,' I think of my car. If a mix sounds good on my studio monitors (dyn bm6a's & krk 9000's) and in my car, it 'translates.' What I've discovered is that there's actually a sort of translation curve. The shittier the monitoring system, the less it translates. When I listen to roughs on crappier car stereos, or ipod earbuds, or a crap boombox, it doesn't 'translate' nearly as well. When I listen on a really nice hifi setup, it sounds like I'm in my studio.

I've also found that this is less true after mastering.

So, first puzzle is, why does translation get harder as playback system get crappier? It's not merely that the mix sounds remote. The vocal will be way too loud, or way too quiet -- important stuff.

Mystery #2 is, what is in mastering that seems to address this?

[whosyourdaddy00]

crappy speakers are emphisizing crappy frequency's in your crappy mix.

mastering tools get the shit out so it DOES translate.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by bobby yarrow

So, first puzzle is, why does translation get harder as playback system get crappier? It's not merely that the mix sounds remote. The vocal will be way too loud, or way too quiet -- important stuff.

vocals? then you're not hearing the midrange ...

Get some Auratones, or similar, and a nice amp. A single 4 - 5" single speaker will give you the vocal level in any room ... way on top, just on top, fighting it, drowning.

It will also tell you where the kick and bass levels are (you should hear them, but not too loud). And if the low end is audible in small speakers, great ... if not, it's all subs.

[u b k]

1) thumbsup on everything brian said, although i'd recommend ns10's before auratone, because it sounds like your translation issues go beyond vocal levels.

you're monitors/room are not giving over the truth on the midrange, or you haven't learned how to hear it. midrange is everything when it comes to balances, if you don't nail that zone then your mix is a bubble waiting to burst. as you've noticed.


2) mastering guys, at least the ones worth their salt, don't have the aforementioned monitoring issue. they make your mix sound right on their setup, using their mojofied ears to make the changes they know from experience will fix more things than it will break. every tweak is a tradeoff, the trick is to know which ones put you in the black.


gregoire
del
ubk

[astronmr20]

Originally Posted by u b i k

1) thumbsup on everything brian said, although i'd recommend ns10's before auratone, because it sounds like your translation issues go beyond vocal levels.

you're monitors/room are not giving over the truth on the midrange, or you haven't learned how to hear it. midrange is everything when it comes to balances, if you don't nail that zone then your mix is a bubble waiting to burst. as you've noticed.


2) mastering guys, at least the ones worth their salt, don't have the aforementioned monitoring issue. they make your mix sound right on their setup, using their mojofied ears to make the changes they know from experience will fix more things than it will break. every tweak is a tradeoff, the trick is to know which ones put you in the black.


gregoire
del
ubk

Brilliant explanation of mastering... you prefectly described what it both does, and dosent do at the same time. In keeping with "improving translation qualities," little compromises are made.

[bobby yarrow]

Appreciate the feedback.

I have trouble accepting that I'm not hearing the midrange. The 9000's in particular are brutal on the midrange, or I think so anyhow -- they sound horrible if the midrange isn't dead right. It may be that I haven't figured out which little lambs must go to slaughter to make a mix play back on real garbage systems.

As I say, the roughs translate nicely on any mediocre car stereo or home hifi, and sound brilliant on audiophile hifi. But on a really junk system -- like say, ripped at 128 and played back thru ipod earbuds -- the balance is wildly off. Not just crappy sounding, but way off -- like, no bass, or way too much vocal, that kind of 'off.'

I've just installed a pair of stock ipod earbuds in my control room, but I'm not sure what I'll do with them. Remix for sucky systems?

Mainly, I think I'll just be thankful that there are M.E.'s who can work this stuff out.

[bobby yarrow]

As I consider the trade-offs you're discussing, I wonder about the virtues of mixing for crap systems at all. Bad enough that we have to rip down to 16-bit, 44.1. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to be tempted to say, screw the ipod set, this record is going to sound great on B&W 803's and crap on anything less . . .

[lucey]

Originally Posted by bobby yarrow

As I consider the trade-offs you're discussing, I wonder about the virtues of mixing for crap systems at all. Bad enough that we have to rip down to 16-bit, 44.1. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to be tempted to say, screw the ipod set, this record is going to sound great on B&W 803's and crap on anything less . . .

nope

if it's balanced it sounds like itself all over



earbuds with no low end and lots of mids? that's normal.

a SINGLE mid driver is what you want, or the NS-10s. the KRKs are crossing over in the mids, as are the Dyns.

[bobby yarrow]

Looking back through this, there seems to be 2 ideas floating around:

1. My mixes suck in some way relating to the midrange that isn't apparent on normal-to-exotically-good systems, but is revealed on really bad systems.

2. In order for a mix to translate from the top to the bottom of playback systems, some otherwise desirable bits need to culled out.

These are fairly different positions I guess.

---

As an aside, I'm sure most of you have wondered who you're mixing for. I would guess that my mixes are most often heard thru ipod earbuds, followed by crazy modern 16-speaker (or whatever) car systems with huge peaks around 120 -200, followed by mediocre home hifi set up poorly. In my little world, where a lot of the people are in the music industry in one way or another, I'd guess that at least a third of them have their home speakers wired out of phase, and I can think of only a handful of people who have an actual setup with 2 half-decent speakers facing the same direction and a place to sit that would be a reasonable listening position. My personal favorite are vinyl freaks, who can't stand CD audio, but have their 2 Bose speakers stacked on top of each other on the floor in the corner. Not to sound bitter . . .

[vtone]

Originally Posted by bobby yarrow

My personal favorite are vinyl freaks, who can't stand CD audio, but have their 2 Bose speakers stacked on top of each other on the floor in the corner. Not to sound bitter . . .