New Massive eBay feedback scam! Super high feedback falsely!

[Tibbon]

So I was looking for a Minimoog Voyager Signature edition. The current auction listed at item 150001154491 looked pretty good, but of course I wanted to check the feedback, as it wasn't perfect (like 93%), but he had nearly 300 auctions under his belt. So i checked in there, and I happened to see that he had made several several transactions with the same people, right after one another. The people he had made transactions with ALL had really really high feedback as well. In their profiles, they too had several small item purchases with the same people as the buyer/seller.

My guess? Someone has a group of accounts (perhaps hacked?) that they jacked up the feedback to make scamming a few transactions more seemless? I have no clue.

I reported them to eBay to look into more. Some of their transactions might be legit, but it's hard to say what's scam and what's not. Here are the usernames that I saw that were 'suspicious'

ecc2351
gidda74
lynsey1000
magicdragon1
257whby
the_sailing_professor
tangmooa
bigbaltic

Basically, don't JUST try the high feedback. Look at WHAT the feedback is, and who it's from.

[Tibbon]

Actually, would one of you guys do me a favor if I end up getting that Voyager? Can you go and physically pick it up for me? I trust you guys, and i'll pay you for shipping then.

[Led]

I haven't seen their actual feedback, but there is a whole culture of people on ebay who sell amongst themselves, mainly things like online versions of 'how to auction' books for like 10 cents each to build up their feedback. Some out there actually think your feedback is a character witness of some sort. I can hear them now - "But youse honour, i isn't guilty, juz look, I gots 355 positive feedbacks on ebay"

[allencollins]

This is why ebay doesn't count feedback for multiple buys and sells from the same account. If you buy 50 items from 1 seller and he leaves you 50 positives your score stays the same.

Ebay feedback pretty much useless. So many people are afraid to leave negative feedback in fear of retaliation. Due to this you will never get a totally acurate picture.


EBAY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zeppelin4Life]

I don't know about that.

If you buy a $.10 stamp or a $60,000,000 boeing 737, the idea that you paid and should get what you pay for is the exact same thing



feedback, big or small counts,. IMO



I have heard a weird one though, where you might buy like 50 things in a dutch auction and then leave 50 +s or -s...ok, thats a little rediculous.

Of course there are thoes people with like 60,000 xes and no problem ever. that is just amazing.

[chrisp2u]

If the same person buys multiple times from the same seller on ebay, only one positive feedback will go toward their overall rating no matter how many purchases are made between the 2 parties. Therefore, seeing mutiple purchases from the same person really has no affect on feedback ratings, except maybe that the people that bought a bunch of times thought they got a great deal maybe.

That's how I've seen it work at least. I've purchased from a guy 3 times. He's left me positive feedback 3 times, but only one of them counted. This method prevents (for the most part) scams like that that you mention. I suppose a seller still create or hijack a bunch of accounts.

...looks like allencollins beat me to it...so this post is pretty redundant. I don't necessarily believe thqat ebay sucks though... I've scored some decent deals and made some $$$ unloading things I don't use. If you're careful, it's a good thing.
---
c

[peeceebee]

I have two large racks full of 80's outboard gear that I got ALL of on the bay- Nary a problem in any of the transactions.

I think you've gotta check how the auction looks & "feels", the feedback, the whole enchilada, & if you're careful & sensitive & not too gullible, you can do ok.

[OVERNIGHT]

I have about 100 transactions to date with only a small handfull of issues. By running tally I've saved something close to 45% off retail over the years. What's ironic I guess is that I'm having my first scam issue crop up right now. A guy I sold a hard drive to is now, two months later, charging me back. I look at his feedback and dozens of them now have the little feedback updates with "CHARGEBACK SCAMMER!!!!" attached to them. Of course the feedbacks stay positive unfortunately so he still enjoys a 98% positive on almost 300 feedbacks. It's only $80 but I'll fight to the death. I'm nuts like that.

Still, all told, I have a home studio in the 30K range and I paid about 17K for it. One item needed repair and one other I got a refund for. Everything else as advertised. It certainly pays to be very cautious though and be up on all the little scams people run. I've avoided a ton of seemingly straight auctions over the years.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by allencollins

This is why ebay doesn't count feedback for multiple buys and sells from the same account. If you buy 50 items from 1 seller and he leaves you 50 positives your score stays the same.

Ebay feedback pretty much useless. So many people are afraid to leave negative feedback in fear of retaliation. Due to this you will never get a totally acurate picture.


EBAY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I leave neagtive feedback when it's deserved. I don't care if I get bad feedback in return it's explained in the comments. Most issues can be solved. Of 500 transactioons in 6 years I have had less than 5 problems. On the other hand selling gear I don't need, I have access to the world to sell it. I have made many cool deals and found sellers I deal with direct (Alto Music)I would not have found without ebay.

[Albert]

Some people will leave a positive feedback rating, but then explain in the notes what went wrong with the auction. It is important to read the feedback of any seller before buying from them, at least a few pages worth.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

So I was looking for a Minimoog Voyager Signature edition. The current auction listed at item 150001154491 looked pretty good, but of course I wanted to check the feedback, as it wasn't perfect (like 93%), but he had nearly 300 auctions under his belt. So i checked in there, and I happened to see that he had made several several transactions with the same people, right after one another. The people he had made transactions with ALL had really really high feedback as well. In their profiles, they too had several small item purchases with the same people as the buyer/seller.

My guess? Someone has a group of accounts (perhaps hacked?) that they jacked up the feedback to make scamming a few transactions more seemless? I have no clue.

I reported them to eBay to look into more. Some of their transactions might be legit, but it's hard to say what's scam and what's not. Here are the usernames that I saw that were 'suspicious'

ecc2351
gidda74
lynsey1000
magicdragon1
257whby
the_sailing_professor
tangmooa
bigbaltic

Basically, don't JUST try the high feedback. Look at WHAT the feedback is, and who it's from.

Good call... looks like someone "gaming" the feedback system.

And you have to figure that anyone trying to build a "false reputation" has something up their sleeve(s)...

[Of course, it could also be all the same individual.]

[u b k]

Originally Posted by peeceebee

I think you've gotta check how the auction looks & "feels", the feedback, the whole enchilada, & if you're careful & sensitive & not too gullible, you can do ok.

a BIG for this advice. take the ad in as a whole, trust that feeling in your gut. when things go bad in a really big way, people almost always admit they knew something was off from the start, but they wanted the thing enough to override their internal guidance system.

when in doubt, send an atypical question to the seller, one that requires a smidgen of thought to respond to. i find that the answer i get, when i get it, and how it reads, all give me a clearer picture of the character of the person i'm thinking of dealing with.

i've done almost 60 transactions in 6 years, many of them high ticket (>$2000), and i've only had one difficult character, but even that was smoothed over with good communication and a willingness to accomodate.

i like ebay.


gregoire
del
ubk

[Tibbon]

I think in his auction listing he also misspelled Voyager. Then again, we all make mistakes.

[TapeOp]

Originally Posted by dissolva

I got scammed this way once.

Basically, someone spent a couple months buying and selling small things on ebay until they had about 300+ positive feedbacks. Then they listed hundreds and hundreds of DVDs for sale at low prices. The avg person like me looked at 300 positive feedbacks plus hey its only $20 for a dvd. Turned out to be a scam. They took the money and ran.

$20 x 1000 DVDs = not a bad week for a scam artist. You could check into a hotel for a week under a stolen identity and run the scam from the hotel's wireless network. Don't trust just the number of positive feedbacks!

I suppose if you pay through PayPal, the items you're buying are covered (by PayPal) up to $500/£500... Am I mistaken...?

[OVERNIGHT]

Paypal is useless and downright corrupt. Infact, they won't help you one iota if they can get away with it. NEVER make your bank card your verified account. I know people who've had hundreds of good transactions, one trips paypal's alarms, they freeze all the money and you have hardly a prayer of ever getting it back.

This page explains your pain if ever you need to paypal to help you...
http://paypalsucks.com/

[6strings]

Ebay sucks for gear. Mostly people unloading crap, in my experience. The only people I'll buy gear from (online) now are actually dealers/stores with eBay sites (or regular web sites) and who'll back up their sale with a return policy. DVDs, software, small items from regular sellers are okay - usually great deals can be had on "everyday" items. Just not music gear... IMO.

And no matter what, for me, the seller must have a spotless record and have been an eBay member for years. I'll also send a test email at first to see what kind of response I get in order to gauge their communication skills. ----Very strict buying policy I know, but it paid off when I bought an defective amp from some guy. He took it back out of fear of his 100% rating would take a hit (the a-hole packed the amp in nothing but a few sheets of newspaper - probably hoping I'd blame it on shipping and try to make an insurance claim when I discovered the short in the right channel)

They don't call it evilBay for nothing!

[gregl]

I've had pretty good luck on e-bay.

While I've dealt with a couple of difficult people, most of them have been pretty good.
Reading the feedback is key. There is a lot that can be said between the lines.

I also check to see if something has been sold and re-listed multiple times before I buy.

Be sure and check shipping before you commit. There are some people who grossly overcharge for shipping in an apparent effort to make additional profit.
I don't deal with them.

If its anything remotely expensive e-mail the seller and ask a few questions.
If its really expensive I get their number and talk on the phone and try to get a feel for things. If they don't want to do that or I get a bad vibe I don't buy.

Come to think of it I've had better luck on e-bay than Banjo Center.

[meeble]

Here's my ebay rules for buying gear:

1. get a picture of the actual serial number on the unit. ask the manufacturer about that serial number.
2. ask to speak with the seller on the phone. you can tell a scammer usually once you start talking to them.
3. ask for a copy of the original receipt.
4. analyze the user's feedback for any traces of weirdness
5. talk to 1 or 2 of the seller's previous buyers who bought gear from them. if you can't find any recent transactions, ask the seller to put you in contact with them.

if the seller seems hesitant about any of these, don't bid. there will always be another "whatever' on ebay.

i got a great ebay deal on my Eventide H8000 recently - a perfect transaction!

peace-
mr. m

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by JuanPabloCuervo

i had bad experiences with ebay

Did you lose your mind on e-bay as well?

[GPl]

Originally Posted by Marjan

Did you lose your mind on e-bay as well?

Yikes! That would take me a week to type all that out. Sometime less is better

[briefcasemanx]

I've bought 3 synths off of ebay that were not as advertised. Everything else has been as advertised or better. If you're looking for a synth, especially a vintage synth, be VERY cautious.

[thejook]

Originally Posted by meeble

Here's my ebay rules for buying gear:

1. get a picture of the actual serial number on the unit. ask the manufacturer about that serial number.
2. ask to speak with the seller on the phone. you can tell a scammer usually once you start talking to them.
3. ask for a copy of the original receipt.
4. analyze the user's feedback for any traces of weirdness
5. talk to 1 or 2 of the seller's previous buyers who bought gear from them. if you can't find any recent transactions, ask the seller to put you in contact with them.

if the seller seems hesitant about any of these, don't bid. there will always be another "whatever' on ebay.

i got a great ebay deal on my Eventide H8000 recently - a perfect transaction!

peace-
mr. m

Yeah, there was recently a Sontec MEP-250C without a picture; I e-mailed the seller asking if there's a price he'd end the auction early for - he offered $450 (!).

I followed up with a few questions, e.g. "do you have a picture?" and he responded that he didn't. How can a seller in this day and age NOT have a picture? Crazy. So I dismissed it as a scam ($450 for a Sontec that he claims works great but can't photograph?!) and as the auction drew to a close, the thing wound up jumping from $200 to $1,581 by the end!! Are people crazy?! No picture and you throw down $1.5k?! Granted, he has 100% feedback, but seriously - if you are selling a vintage EQ, you can't expect to not have pics. Well, I guess he didn't need them after all... check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[thejook]

Another thing: I do have to agree with whoever said that most of the vintage (or more than 10 year old) stuff sold on eBay are hunks of junk the seller doesn't want to deal with anymore.

Almost everything I've bought in the last 6 mos (ITI EQ, Audinc EQ, Chilton console) has had to be taken to the shop for some major work before it was usable. Lucky for me my tech is great and really resonably priced compared to the US, but MAN. I've bought a bunch of projects, that's for sure.

[RedWallStudio]

Ironically, the only problem I have had buying an item on-line was from a fellow gearslut... go figure that one out. Basically I won't buy from an International seller unless I talk to the person first... scammers trying to sell pro-audio gear are insanely easy to sniff out. But yes, you can tell alot about E-bayers by their feedback. It isn't necessarily how much they sell or how good their rating is (It is totally hilarious that a 97% in grade school or high school is something to be proud of, but 97% on E-bay deserves further investigation), but who they sell to and what they are selling. Most audio geeks have an E-bay name that sounds like they are an audio geek, so it takes about 30 seconds to open up someones feedback and see that he regularly buys and sells from and to guys in the biz.... that is usually a good sign. The guys I will want a phone number from instantly are any auction that starts out with "This was my dads and I found it in the garage..." or "I'm selling this for a friend of mine..." Either of those are usually problems waiting to happen.