royer 121 vs coles 4038

[nomoreflakes]

R121 probably works better here (with eq) - it is also more robust to spl.

The 4038 is a better all round mic with much more character though - IMO. So nice on drums.

M160s are also very good on guitar and drums.

[KingBugsy]

I have a few R-121s and they're surely excellent for electric guitar. As stated above, they're quite robust and durable as far as ribbon mics go in general.

A Coles 4038 is on my list of things to get. Though I'd probably reserve the Coles for more ambient, distant miking. Do some research, the 4038 is said to be a bit on the fragile side, not sure if I'd want to put it very close to a very high spl or air moving source.

Both the above mentioned mics are figure 8. The Beyerdynamics M-160 is a hypercardioid. Huge difference. This is something to consider. I love M-160s on drums, especially when the room is not so great, the hyper pattern zooms in more on the drums and picks up less room. But a figure 8 on drums is surely going to capture way more room by comparison, which is probably preferred if you're in a great room.

I've tried the M-160 on electric guitar cabinets and wasn't too thrilled. The Royers seem to work better here, at least per my own application. This is indeed very subjective, very much depends on the type of sounds you're shooting for, etc, any of these mics can work, depending. But in general, I would think that for electric rock guitar, you can't go wrong with an R-121. It's probably the most versatile in this application.

[fastlanestoner]

I really love Royer stuff! I think they're the best ribbons around right now

[mml]

I think royers are great. I also really like aea 84's on cleaner to overdriven guitars. If its high gain stuff then a 57 and a royer are nice. The Coles I have limited experience with, but I wouldn't want one in front of a guitar cab unless it was really quiet. Great for drum overheads and horns, woodwinds though. You have to have a decent room for the figure-8, so keep that in mind.

[littlesicily]

Have you considered an RCA bk5? I love it on egtr cabs, can get very close with high volume and it costs less than either of the mics you mentioned.

[gouge]

according to steve albini the original coles and the royer are very very similar.

R-121 Ribbon Microphone by Steve Albini

i haven't heard the coles but use the royer and think it's excellent. something like the m160 is easier to place but once you figure out how to place the royer right it comes alive.

also wanted to suggest the oktavamod nady rsm4 as a cheaper option. that sounds great although different on rock guitars also.

[Tonycamp]

Get an apex 205, throw in 1.8 mic ribbon, a lundahl tranny or cinemag tranny depending on the vibe your looking for, they sound GREAT! and are equal in performance to anything out there. You'll get sales guys or voodoo guys saying no way, but they are full of (*^&! It's not magic, it's a ribbon mic. You could build 8 of them for the price of a coles, or you can buy another damn nice mic with the $ you save.

ps see doctor bills shootout if you want some comps, i have 4 apex 205s, 2 luhndys and 2 cinemags, different from each other, both=awesome sounding

I think shiny box? makes some nice ones at a good $ also

[Endre70]

Originally Posted by KingBugsy

Coles 4038 is on my list of things to get. Though I'd probably reserve the Coles for more ambient, distant miking. Do some research, the 4038 is said to be a bit on the fragile side, not sure if I'd want to put it very close to a very high spl or air moving source.

Sure they are fantastic for OH/Room/ambience, but If used only at a distance you will be missing out a lot! Its just being sensible when placing it like KingBugsy points out. (So don't follow Ken Scotts advice and place it inside your Kick. And if you do mess up, then you could always get it fixed. http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/micservice.shtml This will however mess up a matched pair of course..

[Steffmo]

Its great there are so many mic that we can all have opinions these days.

IMHOP the Royer is a very nice mic, but the Coles 4039 is one of the greatest mics on the planet.

Of course the only real slut solution is a pair of both, plus 2 Beyer 16os.

I'm sure you can find a use for all of them.

[Geese]

Lotta experience/years with the Coles and owned several Royers. I found the Coles has a midrange presence and muscle that the Royer simply can't touch. In a vacuum the Royer will seem to be sweeter mics and possibly more pleasing to the ear but in the noise floor of a mix the Coles is king. Never had a Royer that I felt compelled to keep for any length of time....

[Ciozzi]

I owned both, and if you're considering to record electric guitars the 4038 is out of the question. Other than having a humongous proximity effect, which makes it difficult to tame when placed up close to a speaker, it is very easily damaged by loud SPL, strong bass energy and air movement. It can work if you place it 3 or 4 feet back as an ambiance mic, otherwise I'd say buy a more modern ribbon that can handle high spl without crapping out.

[Rascal Audio]

For right on the amp, point blank, the Royer. For everything else, the Coles.

I've owned both, and still own 4038's -- use them all the time. They're much nicer on pretty much everything than the 121, but can't handle the SPL that the Royers can.

Joel

[unit7]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

it is very easily damaged by loud SPL, strong bass energy and air movement.

I know they're on the fragile side, but didn't know a guitar amp could kill it... Of course it depends on the volume, but I'm curious, do you have (or anyone else) 1st hand experience of destroying a Coles by putting it close to a loud guitar amp?

[RickS]

Originally Posted by unit7

I know they're on the fragile side, but didn't know a guitar amp could kill it... Of course it depends on the volume, but I'm curious, do you have (or anyone else) 1st hand experience of destroying a Coles by putting it close to a loud guitar amp?

I haven't killed a 4038 on elec guitar but I have had them distort so bad I thought I had killed them! I'm guessing that if I had left them in that situation I would have killed them.

[unit7]

Originally Posted by RickS

I haven't killed a 4038 on elec guitar but I have had them distort so bad I thought I had killed them! I'm guessing that if I had left them in that situation I would have killed them.

Thx for the tip Rick! Had the amps quite loud in that case I guess?
Paul

[RickS]

Originally Posted by unit7

Thx for the tip Rick! Had the amps quite loud in that case I guess?
Paul

Yeah, pretty loud but not thunderous. Had the mic right on the grill. I was quite surprised and thought for sure that the mic was toasted......ugly, ugly sound!
I never did that again.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by unit7

I know they're on the fragile side, but didn't know a guitar amp could kill it... Of course it depends on the volume, but I'm curious, do you have (or anyone else) 1st hand experience of destroying a Coles by putting it close to a loud guitar amp?

I did put mine in front of an amp but it was a few feet away from the cone, so it suffered no damage. Coles 4038 are very sensitive to proximity effect, put it close enough to a speaker and a very moderate volume will litterally make it fart.

[unit7]

Originally Posted by RickS

Yeah, pretty loud but not thunderous. Had the mic right on the grill. I was quite surprised and thought for sure that the mic was toasted......ugly, ugly sound!
I never did that again.

Ok, thx again!

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

I did put mine in front of an amp but it was a few feet away from the cone, so it suffered no damage. Coles 4038 are very sensitive to proximity effect, put it close enough to a speaker and a very moderate volume will litterally make it fart.

Odd, I've used mine close to amp too, at moderate/medium volume, and no farting... Sounded great actually.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by unit7

Ok, thx again!


Odd, I've used mine close to amp too, at moderate/medium volume, and no farting... Sounded great actually.

When it comes to guitar amp and loudness everyone has their own definition of "moderate" . IME it's the low frequencies that make it suffer, if you take one of those very midrangy amps with an open back cab you might end up being just fine even at medium volume. I remember once I tried it on a twin reverb, and no matter how low the volume was, low resonances would always make it crap out at some point. After about 30 minutes I gave up and used the r121.

[SoSueMe]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

I did put mine in front of an amp but it was a few feet away from the cone, so it suffered no damage. Coles 4038 are very sensitive to proximity effect, put it close enough to a speaker and a very moderate volume will litterally make it fart.

Could the distortion be due to too much "wind" (pun intended)? What if you just put a pop filter between the amp and mic?

[mixkitchen]

Gibson 446, Fender Pro Junior, 4038 hanging down right on the grill. Fantastic!!
Wouldn't do this on a 4x12 cab though.

[dillweed]

I use a coles 4038 on guitar cabinets all the time!
For sure my go to amp mic.
add in a 57 for a touch of rock/metal sizzle.

Just keep it at least 6 inches from the cone and watch the volume.