Duende first impressions (looooooong post - no info)

[Crandall1]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Okay maybe I am nuts but I did look around and I can't find any price at any site so this is a bump.... How much is the Duende going for in U.S.? Anyone?

Whether you're nuts or not is open to interpretation, but pretty much every non-boutique pro audio house has these in their catalog now. To wit:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Duende/

You gotta kind of work to find sites that _don't_ have 'em. If they sell SSL, they sell the Duende.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Crandall1

Whether you're nuts or not is open to interpretation, but pretty much every non-boutique pro audio house has these in their catalog now. To wit:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Duende/

You gotta kind of work to find sites that _don't_ have 'em. If they sell SSL, they sell the Duende.

Cool thanks man. I really did look at Sweetwarter, twice in fact but... I guess I must have messed up the search like an idiot...



Thanks again.

[alexkemp]

well, I was very excited when I read the first post in this thread talking about how well the Duende was playing with others: I also have a powercore firwire and two UAD-1 cards, and so I got one in my hot little hands and got to work...

Or not. Turns out, somewhere on the SSL website FAQ about Duende it says it doesn't currently support Digital Performer. A deviously hidden little factoid. And/or I'm a poor researcher.

I did talk to the extremely nice people at SSL in LA, and they attempted to be helpful... turns out there are still quite a few bugs... For instance, there is some problem w/ using LaCie firwire drives (all of my stuff is on those drives...) Also, they sent me the beta for the DP fix, but I still find (even with no firewire drives or powercore attached) that after I add more than two of the Duende channels, the playback buffer and CPU starts spiking, and the automatic delay compensation drifts in an out, so that I'm hearing unprocessed, out of time bits intermittantly while I'm working.

As far as the firewire drive problem is concerned, they recommended I use my last open PCI slot for a firewire card, and put the Duende on that... Since I have PCI-X slots, it was a pain to find an adapter card, but I just ordered one from sonnettech that claims it'll do the trick.

Has anyone else gotten this to work well with Digital Performer? I'm praying they sort this out soon because I tell you, its a tease having heard what these plug ins do to a drum kit and I'm eager to start trusting it enough to fully integrate it into the flow...

FYI:
Mac G5 dual 1.8 (w/ PCI-X slots)
Digital Performer 5.01
Motu Traveler / Apogee AD8000 / Big Ben

[Doublehelix]

Originally Posted by upscaps

interesting review. def interested in hearing some more waves ssl/duende comparisons. hardware vs plugin comparisons always end up....

I don't have the details in front of me, but I think the Waves plugs and the Duende emulate different SSL models, so you cannot really make a direct comparison.

You may prefer the sound of one over the other, but they are going to sound different... guaranteed.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

I don't have the details in front of me, but I think the Waves plugs and the Duende emulate different SSL models, so you cannot really make a direct comparison.

You may prefer the sound of one over the other, but they are going to sound different... guaranteed.

The waves emulates an analog ssl, the duende is the same algorhythms out of a digital SSL

narco

[preben]

Sorry to hear about your problems alexkemp - hope you find a solution quickly.

For what it's worth the firewire hard disk I have connected to my system is also a Lacie and I don't have any problems. Obviously I am not on DP so how much this helps you I don't know - probably not at all.

When I connected my set-up I had some difficulties getting to the back of my G5 so I ended up having the Lacie connected to the FW800 port of the G5 and from the Lacie I have my poco firewire connected via the FW400 out of the Lacie. The Duende is connected directly to the FW400 port on the G5.

[fredrik@mi7]

Originally Posted by narco

The waves emulates an analog ssl, the duende is the same algorhythms out of a digital SSL

And those very algos are emulations of the 9000 channnels.

So to put it short:
* Waves is done after SSL 4000.
* Duende (and C200) is SSL 9000.

[elambo]

From SSL's website:

"The equaliser included with the Duende EQ and Dynamics Channel Strip plug-in is a four band parametric EQ. Based on the XL 9000K EQ circuit, this plug-in includes two distinct EQ curves, one based on the SSL G series EQ and another based on the latest version of SSL’s classic E series EQ.
Normally these shelving curves have a degree of overshoot/undershoot (depending on whether you are boosting or cutting) below the selected HF frequency or above the selected LF frequency. Selecting the E button removes the overshoot/undershoot effect and provides a slightly gentler slope.
Normally, at any Q setting, the bandwidth of the HMF and LMF sections varies with gain, whereby an increase in boost or cut increases the selectivity of the EQ. This type of EQ can sound effective when used at moderate settings; the gentle Q curve lends itself to the application of overall EQ on combined sources and subtle corrective adjustments to instruments and vocals."

[danasti]

Originally Posted by preben

I still remember people running out and selling their Fender Rhodes pianos when the DX7 came out.

It just NEVER sounds just like the real thing does it - not for very long anyway...

I started out with this debate (analog vs. digital) with synths as well. And the entire debate of buying something as a replacement I think is the wrong test. Yeah they model it but to sit there as a music producer and judge the processor based on an exact match is silly. The test should be how it makes your recording sound.

The point here is that a DX7 is an amazing synth. It gave birth to totally original sounds and has been used on thousands of recordings in all sorts of genres. It never did a good imitation of anything else in my opinion. But it sure sounded like a great DX7. I don't use the Fairchild, Dreamverb or 1176 plugs on the UAD strickly because of their ability to emulate.

All I want from any processor, whether it's analog or digital when I turn it on, is can I quickly be able to say: "That sounds great!"??

So I think in 10 years people will still use DX7s and plugs on UAD cards.

[soapbox]

Well put, danasti.

By the way, I've been lurking in this thread since its inception. The initial user impressions of Duende posted here have been quite helpful. Thanks, guys!

Best,

Geoff

[GCW]

Originally Posted by soapbox

Well put, danasti.

By the way, I've been lurking in this thread since its inception. The initial user impressions of Duende posted here have been quite helpful. Thanks, guys!

Best,

Geoff

I'm a lurker too Geoff! I'm really interested to hear any Duende experiences. And I really appreciate all feedback as well.

Hey, anyone who has one and a tiny bit of spare time...

Some samples of Duende in action would be amazing! (Just a cheeky hint)

Geoff

[horseface]

http://community.sonikmatter.com/for...dpost&p=193137

[soapbox]

Originally Posted by GCW

I'm a lurker too Geoff! I'm really interested to hear any Duende experiences. And I really appreciate all feedback as well.

Welcome, Geoff!

Always good to see another "Geoff" on the 'net!

If we find one or two more of us, perhaps we'll be able to do a "Geoff" version of Monty Python's Bruces sketch!

Originally Posted by horseface

http://community.sonikmatter.com/for...dpost&p=193137

Cool! Thanks, horseface!

Best,

Geoff

[soapbox]

Sound On Sound has a full-fledged review of Duende, written by Paul White, in the August 2006 issue. If you have an eSub, follow the link below:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0.../sslduende.htm

Oh, and according to the review, while the unit is based on the algorithms in SSL's digital C-series console, SSL engineers "revised and tweaked" them for Duende to sound even closer to SSL's analog boards.

Best,

Geoff

[stu2469]

I purchased the Duende over Liquid Mix for many of the reasons posted in various forums. I use it, or should say have tried to use it in PTLE 7.1 cs9 on a 002. My hardware details are below this thread.

The sounds is fantastic, just want you always wanted. Sadly in PTLE you also get many things you don't want and additionally many of the so called fixed don't do much after a few hours of using it.

So what am I moaning and groaning about. Ah nothing really, just the simple fact that you get pops and drop outs almost every 10 seconds. I've done all the fixes they told me to do, but still the same.

It's the last time I ever have anything that uses a wrapper, these things cause so much hassle it's rediculous. I purchased Powercore Firewire and the delay the wrapper causes is crazy, you can only effectively use them on the master channel, unless you want to start tarting around with adjusting timings of tracks. PTLE doesn't have delay compensation - a huge mistake for the recent upgrade by PT not to have that included. It must be the only DAW that doesn't now. Anyway, I thought the Duende would help.

Instead I just have a £1000 unit that I simply can't use. I've tried the support and they seem to be at a loss. Clutching at straws by saying that PTLE latest build isn't varified with the latest OSX build..... passing the so called buck around now.

To be honest. I wish I had purchased the Waves version, would have saved a few quid too. Then at least I'd now they would work and wouldn't have to worry about further delay compesation issues and the fact that it just don't work.

Hardware profile:

Powermac G5 2.7ghz 4 mb ram - 3t firewire drives.
PTLE 7.1cs9
002
Powercore firewire
Duende
Internal firewire pci card (all connect via seperate firewire connectors into mac)

If anyone has ANY ideas on what I can try, I'd love to here them.

I've done all the re-installing thing.

A word of warning, be careful if you're buying Duende for Protools LE. Of course it may just be my setup, but then what I have isn't anything out of the ordinary and its a decently specced mac.

Be interesting to hear from you guys.

Stu

[T_R_S]

I have a Duende and a LM, The LM user interface is nicer the Focusrite software is less buggy (fewer crashes). The options are better and half the price.
I do like the Duende but I am not sure if it will make it past my 6 month test.

[Angus_FX]

It's the last time I ever have anything that uses a wrapper, these things cause so much hassle it's rediculous. I purchased Powercore Firewire and the delay the wrapper causes is crazy, you can only effectively use them on the master channel, unless you want to start tarting around with adjusting timings of tracks.
PTLE doesn't have delay compensation - a huge mistake for the recent upgrade by PT not to have that included. It must be the only DAW that doesn't now. Anyway, I thought the Duende would help.

FYI, this is nothing to do with the wrapper, and everything to do with the fact that the audio has to make a round trip off the CPU, down the bus, in and out the FireWire port, and back.

[tamasdragon]

I know I won't be a good guy, but why duende has no full parametric eq? I know because of the origins, but it's 2006, computer technology would easily allow this. At least it should be an option IMHO.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

I know I won't be a good guy, but why duende has no full parametric eq? I know because of the origins, but it's 2006, computer technology would easily allow this. At least it should be an option IMHO.
Regards Tamas Dragon

Ummm, maybe because it will not be an SSL eq anymore

[ResonantFilter]

There's been a new software version posted. I'll be installing it this week....

[BackHand]

Originally Posted by preben

Amongst the good news is that at least on my system the Duende seems to be happily co-existing with my powercore pci mk1, powercore pci mk2, powercore firemire and UAD-1 cards. Given the history on some systems of problem between the TC and UAD cards, I was a little concerned that the Duende would throw another dsp-card spanner in the mix but my initial observations are very positve.

So what do you think of the quality of the Duende plugins compaired to the UAD-1 ones?

Same or another level?

[ustka_slupsk]

Originally Posted by the1Hub

i had the pleasure of playing around with it at tape op running on a powerbook g4 with protools le/002r. it did add a very insignificant amount of cpu(powerbook) usage when the plugs were active
looks

so...I also got the G4 powerbook. Does that mean that adding a plugin increases the cpu? - by how much ? If it's "very significant" than..what am i getting this thing for? i d like to release some pressure off the cpu of my g4 wanker not pumping it up e.

could someone give me more info about this. does initialization of the duende plugs increase cpu and if so by how much.

and how does the cpu increase when adding further plugs by duende?

thanx in advance

U_S

[Steamy Williams]

Originally Posted by ustka_slupsk

Does that mean that adding a plugin increases the cpu? - by how much ? If it's "very significant" than..what am i getting this thing for?

the1Hub said "very insignificant" not "very significant".

[ustka_slupsk]

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

the1Hub said "very insignificant" not "very significant".

ok. i promise to get new pair of glasses as soon as i get outside.

[preben]

In my opinion the Duende is easily on the same level as the UAD.

BUT you have to bear in mind I haven't got any of the extra eq's from the UAD and mainly use it for it's LA2A and 1176 comps (plus the occassional Pultec). So from my perspective it's almost difficult to compare directly because the sounds I'm looking to get from the Duende are a very different vibe to the UAD. People with more of the optional plugs might be able to elaborate here?

I really like the eq on the Duende but it's definitely not smooth and gives everything that certain SSL-edge and 'in-yer-face' quality. Same applies to a lesser extend to the comp. When you put it on a track it instantly sound like your sound source has moved forward a couple of yards. If you like that sound it's great - if you don't, you're stuffed.

As always it's great to have them both (and the powercore stuff). Should I pick one TODAY it would have to be the Duende, not least because of the fact that you get a lot for your money and it's a lot more powerful than the present - and frankly outrageously outdated UAD-1.

With the Duende you can run 30 channels with eq/dyn and still have a quad bus-comp to spare. That is VERY usable compared to the current UAD offering. In fact, if there was EVER a product that you could guarantee would shift A LOT of units it would be a powerful upgraded version of the UAD-1 with a reasonable selection of plugs included.

But here and now and for the SSL sound I don't think there's anything out there that touches the Duende. I tried the Waves SSL's and for my money the Duende is easily superior. It's not day and night (at all!) but I definitely prefer the Duende.

[jasongardner]

Got all 3 of these, never use LM a few Waves SL4000 now and again but the Duendo is used constantly. To my ears its by far the best for in the box mixing. Only other plugs i use is TDM UA 1176 and the Pultec. Moving over to Logic 8 so looks like the UA will have to go.Also got it on the same FW buss as a Ensemble and its working fine.

[yuka42]

Has anybody had any better luck with the ProTools LE in recent months? I'm considering buying a Duende but want to know that it will be solid and headache free. I've got a Digi002 and will be upgrading my computer to a new Mac Pro 8 core. Also, has protools included the ADC in it's newer versions like 7.4?

Thanks!

Ryan