I have Bricasti M7 - I want to add some LEXICON flavor , which one ?

[Voyage.One]

Save your cash and get this:
http://www.relab.dk/lx480_lite.html

[Sean Sullivan]

Talk to Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades. If you don't want to spend money just to spend money, he can recommend some affordable Lexicon units that have all those classic algorithms (LXP-15, Alex, Reflex). You can get those for like $50-$150 used, send them to Jim, and you can have that Lexicon sound for $200-$300 instead of $2000-$3000z

[SAGABEBA]

Thanks for the advices but I do not like PLUG REVS and still interested on the classic stuff , I've heared the 480L in the past and liked it alot.

anyone else ?

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by Voyage.One

Save your cash and get this:
Relab Development - DSP Audio Technology - LX480 Product Page

As a serious Lexicon Hardware owner......I recommend this 1000% This plug actually does Sound Lexicon.......Save your tears of broken 200/224/480/300's and grab this!

ReLab is brilliant!

[crying1986]

Originally Posted by Sean Sullivan

Talk to Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades. If you don't want to spend money just to spend money, he can recommend some affordable Lexicon units that have all those classic algorithms (LXP-15, Alex, Reflex). You can get those for like $50-$150 used, send them to Jim, and you can have that Lexicon sound for $200-$300 instead of $2000-$3000z

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you said here??? I'm curious.

[drBill]

If you're working OTB, get the 92. Forget the 96 - the FW is more trouble than it's worth, and the Lex plugs are actually better.

If you have loads of cash and like gambling, then get the 480L.

[TheLastByte]

I personally dislike some of the new twists taken on the PCM92 - Bill is correct on the 96 Stay away from the FW issues and also remember that the 92/96 Algo's were updated for a much more modern feel, so Random Hall and (Insert your Classic Algo) do sound very different.

I personally Favour the PCM80 as it is the Most bang for the Buck in FX/Reverb Value on the Lex Side and also included 3 versions TRS / Combi /Combi XLR 81. Though that's my preference! (Italo de Angelo can show you just how you can coax some beautiful 224XL type Verbs out of the unit)

As far as buying an older Lex Unit that Has "The or That Lexicon Sound" I could only say a really good condition 300/L or if moneys short a PCM91 - Jim Williams Doesn't fix Lexicon anymore and only brags about his LeCaXti/BriLexi!

So.....If your going full throttle as Bill suggest a 480L v4.1 is the only 480L I would buy & even then you might want a few spare cards to keep you going, Beamish Electronics is still fixing them - though it's BYO Parts!

The Problem with an LXP or LXP MKII is not it's processing power (Indeed it's near a PCM70) The LXP 15MKII is just limited by what you can do with the unit with regards to RT time and various controls - the actual Hardware is their - the software is not!

Lastly you can go for the PCM-70 the GS Lovechild Lexicon unit adored on these pages for the Concert Hall Algorithm - though If I were you and looking at an outlay of money on Lexicon - I'd search GS for the Lexicon Bestiary Thread and Reverb Subculture both threads will tell you all you need to know and make a learned informed decision re a Purchase!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

so Random Hall and (Insert your Classic Algo) do sound very different.

Very is a large word. In my world, it's not a large difference. I was happy to sell the 480L for a 96, which I in turn traded in on the Lex Native software, and I don't regret any of those moves for a minute. (Well, I regret the 96 not working as advertised with FW, but I loved the sound of it.) I suspect the majority of "sound differences" between current high end Lexicon's and the 480/300 generation are in the grainy converters on the 480L.

All that said, in this world, one man's grand canyon is another man's nano-hair, so check em out to see what you like.

Hey, lastbyte, do tell more on the PCM80>>224 programs. I've got an 80 that sits around collecting dust 99.9999% of the time. Love to breath some new life into it.

[TheLastByte]

@DrBill......Traded in the 96 to buy the Native Plug In's - What.....You got no free Native for the 96? wow!
Edit.....So why happy to Junk 480L though recommend one to another Lexicon Hardware user?
Hmmmm
Oh well......whatever works as they say!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

@DrBill......You got your money back on the 96 or just the Plug In's & sold the 96?

Sold the 96, got the plugins.

Did you see my PCM80 question? Love to hear more about what you were talking about.

[TheLastByte]

Sorry Bill......Only just came through!
Yeap PCM 80 is indeed a massive beast, (I've now got 4 my new hobby) not sure why it can sound so big, I have mine maxed out with 8 Meg 2 x 4mb 9 pin parity - For me it comes down to the actual FX routing Fx-Rev-Rev-fx etc before Reverb routing - Insert Pitch/Dual FX card and dial in a Concert/Plate/Chamber Turn the Size up medium reverb - Work the reverb until you get an ethereal 224 feel, Italo from Eventide put me on to them yonks ago - I had one going into a 300/M as an insert so it was breathing as a digital send by itself.

Then I started using it Solo .....And another

Res Chords Set to around 20 Seconds feeding back on itself w/Mod into a Chamber or the reverse - both sound great!

It's the movement that spatial movement in reverb - the Flutter at the end of a hit - and for Radio & TV it does the most strange things when you feedback on itself! PCM 80 has to be the most underrated PCM Device ever made! I swear I thought you sold yours, maybe it was slipperman!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

Sorry Bill......Only just came through!
Yeap PCM 80 is indeed a massive beast, (I've now got 4 my new hobby) not sure why it can sound so big, I have mine maxed out with 8 Meg 2 x 4mb 9 pin parity - For me it comes down to the actual FX routing Fx-Rev-Rev-fx etc before Reverb routing - Insert Pitch/Dual FX card and dial in a Concert/Plate/Chamber Turn the Size up medium reverb - Work the reverb until you get an ethereal 224 feel, Italo from Eventide put me on to them yonks ago - I had one going into a 300/M as an insert so it was breathing as a digital send by itself.

Then I started using it Solo .....And another

Res Chords Set to around 20 Seconds feeding back on itself w/Mod into a Chamber or the reverse - both sound great!

It's the movement that spatial movement in reverb - the Flutter at the end of a hit - and for Radio & TV it does the most strange things when you feedback on itself! PCM 80 has to be the most underrated PCM Device ever made! I swear I thought you sold yours, maybe it was slipperman!

nope. I've still got mine. Sold the PCM60 which was glitchy, the 480L and the PCM96. Kept the 80. Guess I need to dig into it more. I just never used it for VERB much. Mostly for FX. But I do have the dual FX card. Guess when I get some time, I'll need to do some more experimenting....

thanks for the tip!

[TheLastByte]

DrBill.......Check Italo's site and download his 224 impressions on the PCM 80.....They are very good! I DIY so I haven't bought any though it really shows just how far you can go with a PCM 80 after all it's a PCM-70 w/FX Section and my guess on the 224/XL stuff comes down to the Res Chords & multiband delays that can go for 42 seconds! Stereo!
Here is his site. Italo makes nice stuff! (So if anyone is a PCM 80 devotee - see what can be done with that unit!)

Italo de Angelis

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by drBill

nope. I've still got mine. Sold the PCM60 which was glitchy, the 480L and the PCM96. Kept the 80. Guess I need to dig into it more. I just never used it for VERB much. Mostly for FX. But I do have the dual FX card. Guess when I get some time, I'll need to do some more experimenting....

thanks for the tip!

Gotta say the PCM 60 is a device I have never been able to use successfully, always something wrong with them, no matter where, when, country or Studio, I'll never understand how a PCM 41 can go through life unscathed as can a PrimeTimeII though a PCM 60......Nope.....their is a problem with them, and shipped from OS, they die in a day - the only early PCM that was switchable inside internally from 50/60hz and 120/230V.

Still.........I've always wanted a working one!
Go figure?

[TheLastByte]

I'll say it in this thread......though I've never talked up the PCM-80 as I never wanted to see the price SKYROCKET to what happened with the PCM-70!

I will never in my entire Life, understand all this version 2 PCM -70 Bullshit and the hype just as it has a Concert-hall Algo (The same one that's in the 80) that has a 224 lineage.........Never understood the PCM-70 gold-rush, I've seen units that belonged to some sort of special school with cracked ears and no display go for $900 bucks and those are the BAD ONE's

[TheLastByte]

Same breathe Relab Lx480L is the only Lex verb (Simulation) I have ever liked, PCM native is fine, sounds modern, new.....and sure things change....don't need big dark verbs all the time, though I have to say, this dude nailed, like sean Costello nailed Valhalla -
Uber mod is great! though Stuck with a MBP on a Desert Island and 1 Verb Plug - reVibe 100%....no idea why - Just hits my "Tingle" button!
Lol...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

So why happy to Junk 480L though recommend one to another Lexicon Hardware user?
Hmmmm
Oh well......whatever works as they say!

I said if he likes to gamble..... I felt like the 96 got me close enough, and the Software worked even better for me. I always felt (recently, not 15 years ago) that having a 480 was like holding a ticking time bomb. When will it go off.... And I was offered a great price so..... bye, bye. I have a bricasti and the Lex plugs and feel pretty covered by those. I'd love to the the Relab as soon as it's ready for prime time on a Mac/PT.

Well, you got me going. I patched in the 80 and started playing. Will play more and try to report back, but it will be awhile. Crazy busy right now.... It did sound nice though I have to admit. More experimentation is in order, or maybe just buying some of Italo's presets - thanks for the link. Are they costly?

On the 60, man, I really loved that thing for ONE sound. The small room. The smallest one was IT. Unfortunately, like you mentioned, it became glitchy, and eventually was unuseable for me.

Yes, the Ubermod is fantastic. Love that plug.

Thanks for the inspiration.

[TheLastByte]

[QUOTE=drBill;8175772]I said if he likes to gamble..... I felt like the 96 got me close enough, and the Software worked even better for me.

Yeah.......Totally understand!

I always felt (recently, not 15 years ago) that having a 480 was like holding a ticking time bomb. When will it go off.... And I was offered a great price so..... bye, bye.

God I live with that feeling 24/7 365 a year I own more Lexicon then Lexicon Same with Eventide + others - It's Nerve racking!

I have a bricasti and the Lex plugs and feel pretty covered by those. I'd love to the the Relab as soon as it's ready for prime time on a Mac/PT.

I think that is a very Happy Medium - Bricasti is a touch too nice for my Stuff lovely though!

Well, you got me going. I patched in the 80 and started playing. Will play more and try to report back, but it will be awhile. Crazy busy right now.... It did sound nice though I have to admit. More experimentation is in order, or maybe just buying some of Italo's presets - thanks for the link. Are they costly?

Nah.....around $60-80 Bucks and you can ask for a few singles for 20 bucks say 5 patches, just get a good System Ex editor! You'll love them...and buy more as their bomb proof Mr. Carnes had a Huge hand in these...they go far!

On the 60, man, I really loved that thing for ONE sound. The small room. The smallest one was IT. Unfortunately, like you mentioned, it became glitchy, and eventually was unuseable for me.

I've Gotta say.....I'd love to Plumb my PrimetimeII into one though they are either broken, 800-900 bucks or break and are noisy - spot on! 100%

Yes, the Ubermod is fantastic. Love that plug.

Yeah.......Does nice Stuff as well .......Check out the Relab test and the MP3's you'll be impressed as I was having been a 480L man! Random Hall is Brilliant!

Thanks for the inspiration.

No problem Bill...... from my 1st 224Xl.....I've been an FX freak, always will be......the number of FX units I keep secret is shocking - I'm a bad case! though it's fun to share! Italo's stuff works well with an PCm-80's Pitch FX Card as well - That routing makes great magic!
Catch you soon DrBill
Cheers
J.

[cowudders]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

PCM 80 has to be the most underrated PCM Device ever made!

Totally agreed! Does some gorgeous Multi-FX, does great reverb, a bitch to program.. prefer it to my Eclipse. I got an 80 and an 81 - still looking for more.

The Relab 480 is great, too!

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

Gotta say the PCM 60 is a device I have never been able to use successfully, always something wrong with them, no matter where, when, country or Studio, I'll never understand how a PCM 41 can go through life unscathed as can a PrimeTimeII though a PCM 60......Nope.....their is a problem with them, and shipped from OS, they die in a day - the only early PCM that was switchable inside internally from 50/60hz and 120/230V.

Still.........I've always wanted a working one!
Go figure?

I spent much of the day Thursday working with a good PCM60, that was in tip-top shape (thanks to bleen). It only does about 4 sounds, but they are good sounds. To be pedantic, it does exactly 128 sounds, but you know what I mean.

My PCM70 has the Concert Hall, which is really fantastic, and a bunch of other algorithms that I don't find quite as impressive. The PCM60 Room sounds better to my ears than the PCM70 Room/Rich Chamber. Interestingly enough, the 480L Hall/Room algorithm is almost identical to the PCM70 Rich Chamber, except with a few Shape/Spread taps, a single change to the output taps, and different allpass lengths. And the 480L Hall/Room sounds WAY nicer than the PCM70 Room/Chamber.

I need to hear the PCM80 one of these days. From what I have gathered, it is a cross between the original 224XL stuff, and the 480L algorithms, filtered through the mind of Barry Blesser (designer of the EMT250). The algorithms might be great raw material for some fantastic presets.

[TheLastByte]

DAMN
I need to hear the PCM80 one of these days. From what I have gathered, it is a cross between the original 224XL stuff, and the 480L algorithms, filtered through the mind of Barry Blesser (designer of the EMT250). The algorithms might be great raw material for some fantastic presets.

Here comes the PCM-80 Rush - Oh how I should of Shut my MOUTH! You watch - PCM-80 $950-1100$....... Nought - to - One Hundred in 5 weeks flat!

Seriously, Sean you are correct, and the PCM 80 which was basically built as a response to the Eventide DSP4000 is a seriously massive unit - people breeze over it thinking Oh junk reverb - not pro - no linage - etc

The box is a PCM70 and 224/XL There is no other unit that can do Stereo Delays for 42 Seconds flat no regen/recirculation & then you get the 5 Cards all in all - It's a no loose scenario @ $500 bucks each - grab 4 units you've always got parts, can always use verb/fx and chain them together. Cannibalise for parts if need be! - I keep stock parts like the A-D Convertors "Just In case" though you Sean.........will look at the PCM 80 (Expandable) then the 81 (Not expandable without a massive jump cut) and go.......too easy!

Oh........Anyone with a Decent working PCM-60 wanting to sell - I'd like one!

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by cowudders

Totally agreed! Does some gorgeous Multi-FX, does great reverb, a bitch to program.. prefer it to my Eclipse. I got an 80 and an 81 - still looking for more. The Relab 480 is great, too!

Lol.........Yeap the PCM80/81 and Eclipse all "SUCK HUGE" and being programmed, though boy do they respond well when it's done properly and the 80 is very different to the 81........the 81 has so many parameters in pro mode it's almost VSIG in itself!...... My advice, use the old Logic program to do it remotely - I squeezed it into ML on a MBP though it's not a Quad-core 64 bit program!

Simple!

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by seancostello

I spent much of the day Thursday working with a good PCM60, that was in tip-top shape (thanks to bleen). It only does about 4 sounds, but they are good sounds. To be pedantic, it does exactly 128 sounds, but you know what I mean.

My PCM70 has the Concert Hall, which is really fantastic, and a bunch of other algorithms that I don't find quite as impressive. The PCM60 Room sounds better to my ears than the PCM70 Room/Rich Chamber. Interestingly enough, the 480L Hall/Room algorithm is almost identical to the PCM70 Rich Chamber, except with a few Shape/Spread taps, a single change to the output taps, and different allpass lengths. And the 480L Hall/Room sounds WAY nicer than the PCM70 Room/Chamber.

I need to hear the PCM80 one of these days. From what I have gathered, it is a cross between the original 224XL stuff, and the 480L algorithms, filtered through the mind of Barry Blesser (designer of the EMT250). The algorithms might be great raw material for some fantastic presets.

Actually Sean... When you read the 224 & XL to 300/480L product manuals you can actually see how the PCM-70 to PCM-80 Linage comes along as the ideas for 224 and some 300/480 programs bounce out like a cartoon bulb light moment! (Where as the 81 and the 90/91 where like maintenance) - their position has always been thought of incorrectly as PCM80/90 when it was actually end of PCM-70 Start of M300 + LXP into PCM-80 and 90/91 while maintaining 480L

[jetam]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

I'll say it in this thread......though I've never talked up the PCM-80 as I never wanted to see the price SKYROCKET to what happened with the PCM-70!

I will never in my entire Life, understand all this version 2 PCM -70 Bullshit and the hype just as it has a Concert-hall Algo (The same one that's in the 80) that has a 224 lineage.........Never understood the PCM-70 gold-rush, I've seen units that belonged to some sort of special school with cracked ears and no display go for $900 bucks and those are the BAD ONE's

IMHO some people try to sell them at that price, bur most of them never go.

[SAGABEBA]

Thanks for the replys ,

Well I'm one of those guys that can hear the difference of sotware REV and a hardware one in a blind test ,

I already did that few times with 100% succcess ,

I just close my eyes and concentrate , then I get this sense of a 3D picture which only happen to me with a good hardware stuff ,

Something with the depth is different , eveything is more far and big , and it glue better to the source , I hear more character and natural harmonics of the source, but it's still pretty hard to describe.

I heared the LEX plugs and it was nice but was not impressed too much,not 3D at all for me, it has the LEXi woooosh but without the deapth.

Also the valhall stuf wich is very nice and pretty deep for a plug but still it could not stand near my BRICASTI in A/B test I did.

So I get most of the votes for the PCM80 here...

[carl@vkla]

Going back to the original post - the V2 algorithm in the Bricasti may well be the answer here. The V2 uses the modulated reverb tail of the classic Lexicon units (224, 480 and all the offshoots). If your unit was made before the addition of the V2, contact Bricasti and they'll send you the update chips, which are very simple to install yourself. I believe it's free for the registered owner but you'll need to check with Bricasti to be sure. But V2 does the classic Lexicon motion in the tail that so many of us love. And V2 works in addition to the original Bricasti algorithm, so you don't lose anything.

[Sean Sullivan]

Originally Posted by crying1986

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you said here??? I'm curious.

Jim could explain the hardware upgrades he does better than I could.

And, to respond to someone else's post, the reason Jim doesn't work on 480 and 224 is because parts aren't available, which makes it pretty tough to repair one ; )

[SAGABEBA]

I do have Ver.2 but it still a Bricasti ...

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by seancostello

I need to hear the PCM80 one of these days. From what I have gathered, it is a cross between the original 224XL stuff, and the 480L algorithms, filtered through the mind of Barry Blesser (designer of the EMT250). The algorithms might be great raw material for some fantastic presets.

Sean the PCM-80 was also a Project that Michael Carnes had a huge involvement in! Are very own Lexicon master whom resides here on GS (or did as Nobody Special or NB) I'll be very interested in Michael's new company at when beta's start flowing - no idea what's up his sleeve though I'm sure it will be something great!