Login / Register
 
With a Tightness
New Reply
Subscribe
pro
Thread Starter
#1
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #1
Gear addict
 
pro's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 396

Thread Starter
pro is offline
With a Tightness

Tight sounding mixes....

I know what it sounds like and notice when when it's no there.

In General, how are some ways it is achieved?

Less reverb? Gates? Freq dependant Comp? Buss Comp? Quantizing? Hard vs. Software?

What else???
#2
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,238

DAWgEAR is offline
Tight arrangement and tight performances?
pro
Thread Starter
#3
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #3
Gear addict
 
pro's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 396

Thread Starter
pro is offline
Ah, ok, Please Define: Tight arrangement
#4
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6,661

Send a message via Yahoo to djui5
djui5 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by pro
Ah, ok, Please Define: Tight arrangement

For the arrangement, it's a performance thing. Don't let the instruments get sloppy, and keep focus on the song.

For the mix, everything is gated/cleaned up, and in tempo with the song.
__________________
_________________

"What is a crossfire hurricane & why wasn't I born in one?"

Randy Wright
#5
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,238

DAWgEAR is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by pro
Ah, ok, Please Define: Tight arrangement
Well then, please define "tight".

This is my interpretation:

For example, how the bass line and other rhythmic elements interact with the kick. This is partly performance, but partly how the bass line was written.

Also, a certain economy of sonic elements. Not having uneccessary clutter ... things pop out and appear as needed and then disappear and get out of the way. Again, partly a mixing issue but partly how the parts were written.
#6
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #6
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
allencollins's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Rosedale Cemetery Singing Beach, MA
Posts: 4,868

allencollins is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWgEAR
Tight arrangement and tight performances?
Agreed. Keep your mixes focused with comps gates and the right EQ. Less is more in most cases.

The most important thing is the tightness of the musicanship. Youll notice bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana sound real sloppy and there are only 3 - 4 instruments playing. Then you hear a band like Skynyrd or Kansas with 7 guys and they are tight as hell. So the bands talent has much to do with it.

Alot of it is the arrangement. Also how the elements in the mix are placed is important.
Notice a mix like 'owner of a lonely heart' by yes. regardless if you like the song or not you have to agree they used atleast 100 + tracks. But yet you probably only hear a tenth of them
at any 1 moment in the tune. Nothing clashes but yet it is a really complicated mix that keeps changing thoughout.
pro
Thread Starter
#7
23rd June 2006
Old 23rd June 2006
  #7
Gear addict
 
pro's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 396

Thread Starter
pro is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWgEAR
Well then, please define "tight".

This is my interpretation:

For example, how the bass line and other rhythmic elements interact with the kick. This is partly performance, but partly how the bass line was written.

Also, a certain economy of sonic elements. Not having uneccessary clutter ... things pop out and appear as needed and then disappear and get out of the way. Again, partly a mixing issue but partly how the parts were written.
Yeah that is what I'm looking for, is there a school of thought for this?

Meaning how can I understand this better?

I have done lots of mixing and arranging but it has always been trial and error. Which is kinda just hacking around...

thanks
#8
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
theblotted's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,306

theblotted is offline
keep arrangement simple but interesting using different elements musically.

if you listen to orchestral/classical music, this will be very apparent. it'll apply to contemporary stuff like Pop, Rock, Rap, RnB, etc.

having a knowledge of what kind of sound is created with what inst helps a lot.

an example with a certain section of song. percussion has character with lots of transients, strings can be more drawn out (ie, pads), woodwinds can be doing melody, while brass can be doing a loop-like figure.

this way, each section of orch is doing different stuff; and if written well (meaning good relationship between all elements doing musical tension & release), they won't sound cluttered when played together.

of course, those same inst can swap characteristics. meaning strings can do the melody, brass do pads, etc.

the inst can have different combinations as well, so flute playing same line as violins, while brass is doing similar hits with triangle. options are almost endless.

apply the same idea with any music.

imagine you are drawing on a piece of paper: draw a few straight lines across the page (pads), put some dots under those lines (percussive transients), scribble a few zig-zags (loops) up top, and finally a flowy line or a big fat square in the middle.

use different colors for each element.

this way, you can tell each apart. you can layer them, or you can keep'em all separated. nobody said they all gotta be there at the same time; take one or two elements out.

that's how i "see" music. it's not that much different for all genres, to a certain degree. if you draw enough times, you'll start to see what makes a good picture, and what doesn't.

so i would think a good arrangement is an organized and clean picture. not to say, this equals a good song tho. most of the time, but depends.

g'luck.
__________________
"You can imagine where it goes from here."
"He fixes the cable?"
#9
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
  #9
Gear nut
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 149

weatherbox is offline
arrangement is everything, aside maybe from performance. If those two things are solid, the work is 85% done. Guys who can leave each other room but always keep things sounding rich... you can make them sound great on a Mackie board into an Mbox with a couple 57s.
#10
15th July 2006
Old 15th July 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,873

kats is offline
I also find that the slightest of tuning issues creates a perceived looseness in the performance.
#11
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,238

DAWgEAR is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
I also find that the slightest of tuning issues creates a perceived looseness in the performance.
Definitely important!

Also, on a related note: phase issues. Always a good idea to check.

And of course timing which has already been mentioned.

Also, if not using plugin delay compensation (and even with), making sure waveforms line up.

When the waveforms line up and reinforce each other, you get tightness and punch. When they don't ... mush.
#12
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #12
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: I left my heart, in...
Posts: 1,925

David R. is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by pro
Tight sounding mixes....

I know what it sounds like and notice when when it's no there.

In General, how are some ways it is achieved?

Less reverb? Gates? Freq dependant Comp? Buss Comp? Quantizing? Hard vs. Software?

What else???
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my first thought is...Walters?
#13
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #13
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: orange county ca.
Posts: 2,935

stevep is offline
Quote:
Well then, please define "tight".
Air between the notes adds punch!

A tight performance = a punchy mix

If the tracks you get to mix aren't as tight as you would like ,... you probably wont get as good a mix as if the tracks were recorded tight.


Every song is different and sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you have to work with and hope the next tracks/songs are better,....
Not every song you get will sound the way that you would want it to sound...



steve




__________________
Steve Perkins

John 3:16
#14
16th July 2006
Old 16th July 2006
  #14
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 201

blackbox is offline
"tight" is hard to define because it's a "feel" thing.. which is hard to describe as well. As noted earlier, listen to any Lynyrd Skynyrd record for a perfect example. Listen to any Tom Petty record for a completely different yet equally compelling example. The Heartbreakers are one tight band. I think it really boils down to the basic fundamental elements being done extremely well. Great songs with economical arrangements. Zero wasted space. Excellent tones. All of the parts working together in unison. Kick drum working in tandem with the bass line working in tandem with the guitar parts working underneath the melody ...noone stepping on anyone's toes, nobody sticking out , everybody just part of "the whole"...and so forth. It takes really special musicians to do this.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
theblotted / Music Computers
10

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.