Ayotte Drums - Thoughts and experiences?

[Matthew Murray]

Hey guys,

I wonder if anyone's had the chance to bang on or hear one of the Ayotte velvet kits. I'm unable to demo anything locally quite yet, so I wanted to hear what people thought of the tone, and whether or not there were specific genres that it suits or should avoid.

Wide open question. I like them that way.

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by Matthew Murray

Hey guys,

I wonder if anyone's had the chance to bang on or hear one of the Ayotte velvet kits. I'm unable to demo anything locally quite yet, so I wanted to hear what people thought of the tone, and whether or not there were specific genres that it suits or should avoid.

Wide open question. I like them that way.

Hi Matthew,

Unfortunately I can't comment on the Velvet series, having never heard or played one.

However, a friend of mine has a couple of kits - Ludwig, Gretsch, Pearl Custom, etc - and also has an Ayotte kit. He never uses it, either live or in the studio, simply because the Ludwigs, Gretschs and his Pearl kit simply nail whatever tone he's looking for whatever the circumstances call for.

When I questioned his non-use of the Ayotte's it simply came down to the amount of resonance they produce, and the fact that he found them more finicky than his other kits. The Ludwigs and Gretschs get used in the studio, and the Pearl goes on the road. The Ayotte however, stays in the road cases.

Bit of a shame, but when you play for a living you gotta go with what works.

Cheers to you,

bdp

[C/G]

I have a kit that was custom made for me by Ayotte about 4 years ago. It was their custom maple series with wood hoops, and I love them immensly. This is the best kit I have ever played bar none and I have owned and played a lot of kits over the past 21 years I have been drumming. Anyone who hears them is always amazed by the tone they produce whether live or in the studio. I have a new set of USA made Ludwig maple classics that I gig with and they look, feel and sound inferior compared to my Ayottes.

As far as I know, the Velvet series uses the same shells as the custom but you just don't get the size options and only have a few colour choices compared to the infinite colour choices of the custom series. The Velvet snares are ok but the drums should be great.

[Jay Kahrs]

They've got a really unique voice compared to the "standard" kits like a Ludwig or DW or even a Sonor. The wood hoop kits have lots of midrange 'character' that's kinda 'brown' and they aren't as 'toppy' as other kits I've heard.

Cody Dickenson from the North Miss All-Stars plays Ayotte kits live & on their records...and his kits REALLY do sound like that...that's a pretty good example of the Ayotte tone IMO.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

They've got a really unique voice compared to the "standard" kits like a Ludwig or DW or even a Sonor. The wood hoop kits have lots of midrange 'character' that's kinda 'brown' and they aren't as 'toppy' as other kits I've heard.

Cody Dickenson from the North Miss All-Stars plays Ayotte kits live & on their records...and his kits REALLY do sound like that...that's a pretty good example of the Ayotte tone IMO.

Good point. Matt Cameron played Ayotte on most the last couple of Soundgarden albums and the Tragically Hip drummer uses Ayotte so check out some of their drum tones. The wood hoops give it that *brown* sound Jay was speaking of. I am not sure if the Velvet series uses wood or metal hoops.

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

Good point. Matt Cameron played Ayotte on most the last couple of Soundgarden albums and the Tragically Hip drummer uses Ayotte so check out some of their drum tones. The wood hoops give it that *brown* sound Jay was speaking of. I am not sure if the Velvet series uses wood or metal hoops.

The Tragically Hip's "Phantom Power" is a great example. Round, phat, woody. Soundgarden's "Down on the Upside" is the one to check out for the Ayotte "tone".

The Velvet series is available with either wood or steel hoops. The variety of wood hoops available on the Velvet series is no different from their custom series.

Cheers again,

bdp

[lefthando]

Personally, I've yet to hear an Ayotte kit that I liked.

I've been told that there are some that sound good, particularly the older models, but I haven't heard them.

They always sound 'thin' to me.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

I have a new set of USA made Ludwig maple classics that I gig with and they look, feel and sound inferior compared to my Ayottes.

serioulsy....you should condsider redoing the bearing edges on the new Luddies and then comapre them..makes a difference ..Tre Cool of Green Day did and ended up using the Ludwigs on thier latest record.
i make custom drums and redid the bearing edges on my buddies new USA maples..
They sound as good as any of my custom/classic stuff..and tune up easier
the shells are great ,but the factory cut edges aren't

[Jules]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

redoing the bearing edges

What does that involve please? (to a non drummer)

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by Jules

What does that involve please? (to a non drummer)

Taken from drumdojo.com:

"The bearing edge is the only part of the shell that the head touches. The top of the shell is cut so that it comes to a point part way between the outer edge and the inner edge, with drum kits, most drum builders cut this angle to between 40 and 45 degrees and have this offset towards the outside of the shell. Some contemporary builders cut this to a double 45 degree angle and/or towards the centre of the shell body. The sharpness of this edge is an important determinant to the overall sound of the drum, a sharper 'point' will give a very accurate representation of the state of tuning of the drum and will make the resonance within the head greater, it also will allow more of the vibration to be passed to the hoop which will give it more contribution to the overall drum sound. A more rounded edge will be slightly less 'bright' in tone and a more 'woody' sound as more of the vibration is able to be absorbed into the drum, there will also be less of the hoop effect in the sound.

The condition of the bearing edges should be checked every time you change heads. These edges are fragile and any dips or divots, bar very minor damage, will show up in the overall tonality of the drum. If a drum's bearing edge becomes more significantly damaged it will be difficult to tune properly and the only remedy is to repair or re-cut the edge. Re-cutting bearing edges is a highly specialised woodworking activity and should only be undertaken by someone who knows exactly what they are doing."

Cheers,

bdp

[lucey]

I bought a 14 x 8 Silver Sparkle wood hoop snare from Colin's Ayotte kit ... love the tone. Phat and hits you in the chest. No ringing harmonics. Best drums I've ever heard live: Jason Bonham playing Ayotte. The player was 95% of that.



I would never buy drums, guitars, amps, pedals or any studio gear without hearing it first. Drive if you have to, fly if you must.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Cody Dickenson from the North Miss All-Stars plays Ayotte kits live & on their records...and his kits REALLY do sound like that...that's a pretty good example of the Ayotte tone IMO.

I don't care what kind of kit you put in front of that guy, it's going to sound smokin'! I saw him play on a tour with Gov't Mule and he played their kit...I was floored. Got to meet his brother later and asked him please tell your brother that he may not realize it but, he's probably surpassed all of his idols!

Wow that guy could play...and that was like 5 years ago??

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Brian has a point, some kits just sound crappy no matter what...although I did take a chance and pick up a huge DW kit from Round Badge and I must say...the toms in particular really sing the way I like 'em.

War

[C/G]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

serioulsy....you should condsider redoing the bearing edges on the new Luddies and then comapre them..makes a difference ..

Funny you mention that because I just booked an appointment with a local drum maker, Epek Percussion www.epekpercussion.com to redo the edges on the Ludwig kit and maybe put some cast hoops on. I reskinned the Ludwigs right after I bought them and the edges looked a little sketchy to me for a brand new kit, and the tuning is a little wacky sometimes as well.

Roundbadge, what kind of edge do you recommend? I think the fellow at Epek suggested a 45 deg. cut.

My appologies to the poster for the hijack.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Jules

What does that involve please? (to a non drummer)

Jules..I use a sanding table to perfectly flatten the drums and table router to recut the edges..pretty simple deal actually..
then carefully fine sand the edge itself to remove the fine burrs or roundover it to mellow the attack,etc
then check the edges on a piece of black tabletop glass with a light over the drum to check for the uneven bits.
just have to be careful

[C/G]

Originally Posted by lucey

I bought a 14 x 8 Silver Sparkle wood hoop snare from Colin's Ayotte kit ... love the tone. Phat and hits you in the chest. No ringing harmonics.

I have regretted it ever since. Hope your taking good care of my baby!

[RoundBadge]

Sorry for the hijack..
sanding table[t shirt under to protect finished edge]

[C/G]

Originally Posted by lefthando

Personally, I've yet to hear an Ayotte kit that I liked.

I've been told that there are some that sound good, particularly the older models, but I haven't heard them.

They always sound 'thin' to me.

I'm not knocking your point because everyone has an opinion and that is what makes things great, is being diverse in choices and having different opinions. You either like a certain brand of instrument or you don't. I know Ayotte uses Keller shells, and I bet they did back when Ray Ayotte was still in charge, and some of the staff that was their with Ray, is still there now. Most of these high end, boutique drum manufacturers are pretty much getting their shells made at the same place and simply buying them, putting their own hardware on, finsihing the drum ect....... So, a 6 ply, rock maple shell with reinforcing rings and a maple hoop is more than likely going to sound pretty darn similar to a comparable drum of another hi-end manufacturer buying from the same shell supplier. I know the big wigs like Pearl, Yamaha, others, make their own shells.

All the kits I have owned before and compared my Ayotte kit to were basic higher end production kit like a Tama Superstar kit back when they first came out, Yamaha maple customs and on and on. I am sure if I bought a high end Pork Pie kit with maple hoops and shells the same thickness and depth of my Ayottes, the two would be very similar.

Am I wrong in thinking this?

[shikawkee]

Love Ayotte's, been using them (or at least my best friends' kit) for years.
The set I have records really well. Rich and warm.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Cody Dickenson from the North Miss All-Stars plays Ayotte kits live & on their records...and his kits REALLY do sound like that...

here's a hearty AMEN here. i've been seeing the All Stars for a number of years now, and cody's drum sound has never ceased to floor me.

of course, it doesn't hurt that cody's a fantastic drummer. and i mean, how many "club" bands travel with double kicks? yikes. he makes it well worth it, though.


cheers,
wade

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by warhead

Got to meet his brother later

Luther, Cody and Chris Chew on bass are three of the bestest, most down to earth people you'll ever get to meet.......let alone three of the most smokin musicians i've ever seen/heard.

gotta love it when cody and luther do the switcharoo and luther's on the drums and cody's on the electric washboard, complete with flanger, delay and wah. :-D


cheers,
wade

PS--i play pearls, but really dig ayotte drums

[lefthando]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

I'm not knocking your point because everyone has an opinion and that is what makes things great, is being diverse in choices and having different opinions. You either like a certain brand of instrument or you don't. I know Ayotte uses Keller shells, and I bet they did back when Ray Ayotte was still in charge, and some of the staff that was their with Ray, is still there now. Most of these high end, boutique drum manufacturers are pretty much getting their shells made at the same place and simply buying them, putting their own hardware on, finsihing the drum ect....... So, a 6 ply, rock maple shell with reinforcing rings and a maple hoop is more than likely going to sound pretty darn similar to a comparable drum of another hi-end manufacturer buying from the same shell supplier. I know the big wigs like Pearl, Yamaha, others, make their own shells.

All the kits I have owned before and compared my Ayotte kit to were basic higher end production kit like a Tama Superstar kit back when they first came out, Yamaha maple customs and on and on. I am sure if I bought a high end Pork Pie kit with maple hoops and shells the same thickness and depth of my Ayottes, the two would be very similar.

Am I wrong in thinking this?

Well I hear what you are saying, but if that were the case what would separate the different manufacturers from each other?

The hardware, the hoops, the bearing edge as well as things like breather holes all make a difference in the tone.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by lefthando

Well I hear what you are saying, but if that were the case what would separate the different manufacturers from each other?

The hardware, the hoops, the bearing edge as well as things like breather holes all make a difference in the tone.

I am thinking this is correct. I think the major difference would be what you stated and as well finish plays an important part in tone as well, whether it is a eurethane finish, laquer, wrap ect. Breather hole location could probably make a small difference as well.

I could never decide which Boutique type of company to buy my drums from and when I discovered that most are getting the shells from the same supplier, I just bought an Ayotte because I really like the look of the kits, their mounting hardware is fantastic, and they are Canadian which was a big factor and I actually spoke to the guy who would be directly involved in making my kit and they did not mind me calling and asking a lot of questions. That pretty much sealed the deal for me, plus they sent me a box of small, painted drum shell samples so I could finalize my narrowed down colour choices.

But really, a big part of the sound comes from the cat that is tuning and playing the kit.

[lefthando]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

I am thinking this is correct. I think the major difference would be what you stated and as well finish plays an important part in tone as well, whether it is a eurethane finish, laquer, wrap ect. Breather hole location could probably make a small difference as well.

I could never decide which Boutique type of company to buy my drums from and when I discovered that most are getting the shells from the same supplier, I just bought an Ayotte because I really like the look of the kits, their mounting hardware is fantastic, and they are Canadian which was a big factor and I actually spoke to the guy who would be directly involved in making my kit and they did not mind me calling and asking a lot of questions. That pretty much sealed the deal for me, plus they sent me a box of small, painted drum shell samples so I could finalize my narrowed down colour choices.

But really, a big part of the sound comes from the cat that is tuning and playing the kit.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to beat service like that. I remember years ago a drummer friend doing that with Canwood Drums. A company that was located not far from you in Lloydminster.


On the subject of local manufacturers, I believe there is a guy in Saskatoon making very high quality snare drums. I think they might be called "Epoch"? Not sure, but I've been told they are fantastic.

[edit] I remember now, It's Epek. Here's the site... http://www.epekpercussion.com [edit]

[Bob Ross]

I played in a band with drummer Curt Newton (http://www.curtnewton.com/) from 1992-98, and right around '95 or '96 he got an Ayotte kit w/ the wood rims. First time I'd ever seen one, or even heard of the name.

Sonofabitch if that wasn't *the* most responsive, articulate snare drum I've ever heard in my life. The panoply of colors Curt is able to get from just that snare drum is mind-boggling. Throw in a kick & 3 toms and it's like an orchestra: rich, detailed, nuanced and able to convey all manner of shadings. But still phat & phunky, natch.

I'd buy an Ayotte kit for my studio in a heartbeat.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by lefthando

Yeah, it's pretty hard to beat service like that. I remember years ago a drummer friend doing that with Canwood Drums. A company that was located not far from you in Lloydminster.


On the subject of local manufacturers, I believe there is a guy in Saskatoon making very high quality snare drums. I think they might be called "Epoch"? Not sure, but I've been told they are fantastic.

[edit] I remember now, It's Epek. Here's the site... http://www.epekpercussion.com [edit]

I had a Canwood snare years ago. I am pretty sure they are out of business now and I have not seen anything of theirs in years. The company Epek is actually inmy home town Regina. Saskatoon is a couple hours north of me.

Anyway, Ed at Epek just recut the bearing edges on a Tama snare I have and it sounds fantastic. It always sounded pretty good but it is even better now. The Epek drums are really nice and I went to the shop and checked everything out. Good people over there. To the original poster, I believe Epek is available through Long & McQuade in Calgary. You should check out their stuff as another Canadian made alternative and you could venture more into custom features with Epek (more drum size and colour choices) for a similar price to the Ayotte Velvet series.

I will still mention that I will never part with my Ayotte kit.

[Matthew Murray]

Thanks all for the words about Ayotte's. I'm thinking I'm going to try to arrange a demo of a velvet kit sometime soon... and thanks for the other suggestion too Colin.

[ramjet]

Originally Posted by Jules

What does that involve please? (to a non drummer)

hey jules

check ou