Mic purchases: Quality or Quantity or somehow both?

[xj32]

If your best microphones were a pair of Neumann KM-84s, a Royer r-121 and an AT-4060 and you also had some bread and butter shures, MXLs, Audix and blues...what would you do next with a budget of $5000 - $7000.

Get one biggie like a Korby Kat 4 or a vintage U something or other...or would you spread the wealth and get some less expensive Soundelux or Peluso or AEA...

what and why ? Quantity or Quality? Can a person have both ?

I am interrested in opinions and how you would get the best bang for the buck in order of importance.

[cap217]

I would mix it up a little..... you have to remember the service on the vintage mics.

U87 (non Ai) $1500
Peulso 22 47LE $1600
Peluso 22 51 $1200


and go from there. There are other great mics you can fit in the budget as well. Thats about $4300 right threre. I would grab a Mojave MA 200 and there is your 5K and 4 great mics!

[nathanvacha]

Well... what's your average clientele? I think the answer depends on that and also on your space. Like... do you have the facility to track a whole band straight to tape or do you normally do solo artists more often? And what kind of budget do your clients come in with, what do they expect, what fills their needs and what styles (if any in particular) do you cater to?

I confess, I do like the 'more is more' train of thought on this one.

[xj32]

What is the Peluso 22 51 close to sonically ?

As for clients, when I do everything from remote tracking of Jazz combos (I have no piano) with and 8 channel millennia.

In mys studio which is currently one room only as I get ready to build a tracking room at next fall / early spring (depends on house remodeling plans and $$$). I will track rhythm sections together. I can do 16 channels at once, b ut usually use 10 to 12 at most...heck most of the bands / musicians I record usually want to do everything track by track, although that is not my preference.

Musically I have done, Rap, Christain Contemporary, Jazz, Brit Pop, Folk, Celtic, Ambeint, classic neil young'y rock and such.

I usually do not do indie rock and metal as there are other studio's in town who do that better and I am really fine with that.

Budget wise it is all over, I charge $350 per day and most projects come in around $1000 to $7000



PV

[ALL*MYTEE]

Personally, I'd go bigger, older and fewer. Like a blue chip tube mic. Something that will appreciate while you use it. Think of it as the engineers 401K.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by cap217

I would mix it up a little..... you have to remember the service on the vintage mics.

U87 (non Ai) $1500
Peulso 22 47LE $1600
Peluso 22 51 $1200

Originally Posted by xj32

What is the Peluso 22 51 close to sonically ?

I was just going to say exactly the same thing... Get the U87 and 2 x Peluso mics (the 47 LE and either the P12 or 22 251), and an SM7... The 251 is styled after the ELAM 251, and sounds great. I can't wait to try out the new P12 microphone that they are releasing next week.

[xj32]

Ok so here's what I am thinking...


AEA-R84
Shure SM-7
RE-20
Peluso 2247 LE
Peluso 51
Neumann U87 or Pearlman TM-1

added to my current line up of:

Neumann KM-84 (x2)
Shure SM-81 (x2)
Shure SM-57 (x2)
Audix CX-111 (x2)
Audix Micro-mini (x3)
Audix D-1
Audix D-3
Audix D-4
Audix D-6 (can you tell I am an audix fan)
MXL V-6 (x2)
Blue Bluebird
Blue Ball
AKG C-1000s
AT Pro-37r
AT 4047
AT 4060


I am leary of the U87 as I am not sure how to avoid the AI version and find a good older regular U87 ??? So I am considering the Pearlman instead...

Also I am thinking about a pair of Beyer M-160s and also I tried a pair shure ksm 44s a while back and thought they sounded great on vocals. They won every mic shootout on 2 of the 4 singers in a 4 part vocal group.

I am pretty sold on a peluso asap...probably the 47 re-issue.

Anyone see any obvious omissions or holes here ?

PV

[TonyBelmont]

I like your list, but I think the Peluso 47 LE and Pearlman TM-1 are very close and might be a little bit of a duplication there. They use the same capsule.

Also, it's probably not a bad idea to have a pair of condensers... so, maybe get a pair of the 47 LE's, or 251's, or maybe get another 4060.

[True North]

You might want to check out some Charter Oak mics, great stuff.

You could also make do with a big Money vocal mic (relatively speaking), like a used AKG C12VR ($2500), or a Telefunken USA Elam 251 F ($3500)

Couldn't hurt to have a couple of AKG 414's in the mix - they are pretty much standards in many studios

You may also want to check out Lawson Mics as well.

I am not a big Ribbon buy so I would put the AEA last

I liked the concept of the Kat 4, I just wasn't a fan of how they sounded.

[raydo]

i have both a vintage U87 and a Pearlman TM1
they both have "the smell of money"
get the best you cant afford

[xj32]

I thought I read somewhere that the Pearlman and Peluso's were similar.

About the 414's, I have avoided them for years, every time I have used them I have never warmed up to their sound. Not sure why, in fact this will sound odd, but I have never heard an AKG I liked...(I used to work at a music store where I could borrow and try them), of course I have never used a C-12 or clone.

How on earth does peluso do what they do so affordably ? I am considering the 47, 51 and c-12 in that order over the next few months.

As to stereo pairs which of the peluso's would be the better bet as a stereo set ?

I have also been on the lookout for a second 4060 but when ever I see one used at a good price I always wait and use the $$$ towards other gear.

I think a second 4047 would rock too, a great little mic.

PV

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by xj32

How on earth does peluso do what they do so affordably ? I am considering the 47, 51 and c-12 in that order over the next few months.

As to stereo pairs which of the peluso's would be the better bet as a stereo set ?

I think if I had to choose, I would probably grab 2 x 47 LE's...

[cap217]

I still stick with my first post. And you kind of need a U87. To me the older and the newer have the advantages and disadvantages. But a U87 is an expected mic and will be used a lot. Dont skimp there.
And do not get a c12vr over a Peulso 22 51 or their new P12. Save the grand or more and get the handmade mics. I have used and owned both and still have the 22 51.

[xj32]

I would love a good older (pre AI) 87 with a transformer and the "proper" head room

Any ideas on how and were to find a good condition U87 ??? I have seen a few on e-bay but they look pretty beat and I don't think a lot of sellers get the AI...I...thing so even I am not sure what I am getting

Thanks for all of the suggestions, I am 100% sold on at least a 2247 LE for starters followed by a 2251 and then a U87 (unless I find a good one 1st at a good price).

What do you guys think of the AEA ? Is that redundant with my R-121 or are they completely different ?



PV

[edvdr76]

Originally Posted by JuanPabloCuervo

MXL , i've tested MXL v63m / 2001 and v67g vs. neumann u87i "the old one"
and u47fet i owned 2

GET MXL all MXL
sounds better
same A/B test
same pre
same room
same source
same etc...

senheiser 441 great also
shure sm57/58
great also
the rca 44 havent found a "cheap replacement as good"

neumann were great 20 years ago DUDE
the World changes/evolves

make the A/B test your self
Listen your self

MXL? Don't buy MXL. That's like throwing your money away. Those mic's lose their value as soon as you leave the store. You wanna buy something that is gonna make your clients say "WOW, YOU HAVE ONE OF THOSE?!!" something like a 47 or that Korby that you mentioned. Although its a big chunk of change to just put out on one item, I think iin the long run you will know where your money went.


Just my opinion. No disrespect intended.

[xj32]

I own a pair of MXL V-6s and I bought them for their sound. They are great on strings, some voices and especially percussion, but they are not my go to mic.

I may some day pick up one of the Mogami Tube MXLs just for fun, and while I have no hesitation recomending MXL mics to beginers and pro's looking for different flavors, I really feel its time to move up to the next tier with the Peluso, AEA, yes even Neumann rout.

Just like moving from RNC's and DBX to 1176's and Distressors...

PV

[cap217]

I got a great u87 from the disney studio in Hollywood then my stupid ass sold it!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.... . now I just got another one. Anyways, I really think that all 87's have a transformer but I am not sure. I think just eh electronics changed. From the battery pack and some smaller changes for decreased noise and all that. Is there a difference? Yes, I think the older ones are just old and used and abused, therefore they are darker and more rich or warm. The newer ones are a little more harsh (not the word). But still they have their qualities.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by cap217

I got a great u87 from the disney studio in Hollywood then my stupid ass sold it!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.... . now I just got another one. Anyways, I really think that all 87's have a transformer but I am not sure. I think just eh electronics changed. From the battery pack and some smaller changes for decreased noise and all that. Is there a difference? Yes, I think the older ones are just old and used and abused, therefore they are darker and more rich or warm. The newer ones are a little more harsh (not the word). But still they have their qualities.

You can check this thread out for some info on the differences between the older and newer 87's.

hiphop vocal chain(whats yours)

While there is a lot of flaming, there is some really useful information in my posts on the differences.

[xj32]

Cool, thanks Tony. I feel a little more educated now...there always seems to be the standard "older is better" vibe on GS and in one of the initial responces to this thread someone mentioned to get a "non AI".

Also they mentioned a non AI 87 should be about $1500, the new ones I see are much more than that.

PV

[Bob Olhsson]

I'd get 3 Beyer M-88s, 4 57s, a Neumann FET 47 and put everything left over into Gefells.

[xj32]

Thats not fair Mr. O... pulling switch like that

...dynamics, a solid state neumann and gefells. I know folks who own Gefells and love them (m 930's I think), but they are very pricey.

PV

[cap217]

Hey Tony... what is the "sound" of a U67? I never had the choice to see or use one. What does it sound like? A mix of a 47 and 87? Dark?

[Raggedy]

I dunno, seems like you have dynamics and budget condensors pretty well covered. Why not go for a real heavy-hitter? Your collection needs a crown jewel. Maybe...

-vintage U47 or fet47
-BLUE Bottle w/ a couple of capsules
-Gefell UM75
-Horch RM2J
-Brauner VMA
-Sony C800G
-Manley Gold Reference

You get the idea.

[kats]

I'm with raggedy up here. I wasn't gonna post, but it seems to me your going sideways. You have the mics to do the grunt work, now you need your money chain.

I've been fortunate enough to use some of the great classics as well as modern classics, and they make life good. They also require less processing. Having said that I would consider a U47, Tele Ela M251 (reports are the USA version are up to snuff as well) or a Brauner. If your looking for a K67/87 styled mic, I use a tube modded U87ai (innertube audio) that I find more usefull that a U67.

[xj32]

What exactly is the "Innertube mod" and why would you mod a U87 instead of finding a real U67 ?

PV

[xj32]

Ok I used the search function and found the innertube answers...

Sorry,

PV

[Kestral]

I just have an old Shure SM57 and Shure Beta SM58 for general duties and when I need something good, I beg/borrow/steal/rent a Neumann U47. Problem solved.

[Henrik]

I personally find the U87 a good utility mic, but not a very good price/performance ratio. But of course, the N name has a customer draw which is something that must be considered for anyone who runs a business. I think I'd rather look into the Gefell or Brauner line of products, which both gives you great mics and nice German brand names... Definitely get an SM7 and a clean low noise preamp for it, if you don't already have one. I'd also consider some more ribbon mics, like a pair of Beyer M160's. Not too expensive, nice for overheads, one of my favourite guitar amp mics, among other things. Does your "bread and butter" mics include 421's and 441's? If not – definitely get at least one of each.

As you can hear I'm leaning more towards getting several decent mics rather that a few super expensive ones.

A lot of praise for the Pelusos here – are they really that good?

Cheers,
Henrik