Little River Band's harmomies are incredible !

[andychamp]

20-plus years back, I used to have a cassette (remember those?!) of the LRB.
At the time, I didn't think they rocked, but I remember being impressed by the huge harmonies on a track called (or including the word) "Paradise".
I think I even read an interview in the german magazine "Fachblatt" where they claimed using/layering something like 40 vocal tracks for that song's intro.

[octatonic]

Wow... that is a blast from the past.
LRB were my mum's fave band and I listened to a lot of their music growing up.
For me the best period was up until '82. Once Glen left it wasn't the same band.
But John Farnham went on to be one of Australia's biggest selling vocalists- but for me it simply wasn't good music.
"Down on the Border" is an aussie classic.
One of the old guitarists ended up working in a guitar shop on paramatta road (in Sydney)

[dreamsongs]

Yeah...I loved that band, maybe cause I grew up in Australia as a kid...

You're right, when Glenn Shorrock left after the "Night Owls' album it wasn't the same. Although they had 2 hits with Johnny Farnham with "You're driving me out of my mind" and "We two"...

I know that song "Fall from paradise", it was in the same album as "Reminiscing". The harmonies were unbelievable in that song and pretty much in every album they made...

I was trying to listen to figure out how many (if any) overdubs they do to create those thick backing tracks and also how they were recorded. That's how I came accross them, now I can't stop listening to those old tapes. They were good and if they were American or British they would've gone further although they had more hits than most people realize...

[jeak]

"Reminiscing" has been one of my fave songs for 20 years, since I was an arranging student at the Grove School in North Hollywood. A non-musician friend of mine once asked me what I thought were the best pop songs of all time, and "Reminiscing" was the first one I mentioned. She replied, "Oh, Paul McCartney once said the same thing when asked the same question."

Anyway, if you like LRB's harmonies, also check out Donald Fagen's solo albums "The Nightfly" (especially the song "Maxine") and "Morph the Cat." Todd Rundgren also does some nice harmonies with himself on the album "Liars."

It would take at least four overdubs (likely more) or four singers to achieve this sound. It's called block harmony, and it's taken from the jazz arrangements of the 1930s and 1940s. Basically, "block" means the four voices fall within the same octave for that tight sound (though "drop voicings" open things up while maintaining a similar color) and represent four separate voices (degrees) within a chord family. It's the difference between two-part harmonies (thirds, fourths, fifths, etc.) and triads, and everything else -- Maj 7, Min 9, Min 7 (b5), etc. In other words, you need to get beyond traids to get that sound. It's not just a matter of overdubs.

If you want to hear some really cool vocal harmonies, dig out some 1940s jazz. I can't wait for this technique to come back into style again. It is still used widely for horn sections (as it was in the '30s and '40s), but you don't hear it much with vox anymore. No wonder, it takes some serious ear training to do well.

Really, check out Donald Fagen's song "Maxine."

[jeak]

Yikes, how could I forget the modern kings of amazing harmony — the gospel jazz group Take 6. Their first two albums are a cappella, and they are both absolute jaw-droppers for vocal arrangements and harmonies. If you like LRB, you will faint when you hear Take 6, if you haven't already. Very different style of music but still incredible for thick harmonies. If I could be anyone else in this world, I think I would be the basso in that group (can't recall his name).

[dreamsongs]

What's impressive about LRB is their range. All those guys can sing very well. I can't recall any other pop or rock bands ever since that nailed their harmonies the way they did...

[Jamz]

The only record I own by LRB is the 45 rpm of "Reminiscing". I remember thinking it was the perfect pop song. Well arranged. I'll have to dig it up.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

I was trying to listen to figure out how many (if any) overdubs they do to create those thick backing tracks and also how they were recorded. That's how I came accross them, now I can't stop listening to those old tapes. They were good and if they were American or British they would've gone further although they had more hits than most people realize...

I would think so- but I'm sure I have seen live recordings (probably Hey Hey Its Saturday) where they have sung live.
John Boylan produced the first three albums, then it was George Martin.

[Ricky]

What a band. true Aussie Icons. LRB are an Aussie Band that literally took the world by storm. They were huge in Australia with the first 2 Albums then they focussed on America and hit the West coast just as The Eagles went huge. Graham Goble does most of the vocal arrangements. They went through a huge drama lately where a former member of the band who joined the band around Farnam joined called Steve Housden registered their name in the States. Ask anyone in Australia or a big fan who LRB really are they will tell you its Glenn Shorrick, Graham Goble and Beeb Birtles. This low life upstart tours the States ( He is not game enough to do Australia he would get lynched) with their name with hired guns (Americans) and threatened to sue Glenn Shorrick, Graham Goble and Beeb Birtles when they toured here last year. they toured and told their story in the press and I think there is a price on that bitch Housdens head. The shows were amazing and included them doing the songs acoustically in 3 part harmony. So if any of our fellow American Slutz see this scamming shiester give him a big old bitch slap and say you were the 3rd replacement guitar player in LRB so get a ****ing life.dfegad
And yes "Reminiscing" is a classic pop song along with anything off Diamontina Cocktail. The big Aussie classic is Its a long way there, check out Rick Formosa's solo its dope.

[john caldwell]

I studied the LRB's approach pretty closely around 1978 when I was first getting interested in layered vocals for pop music. What I think their sound boiled down to was not only perfect pitch and phrasing, but singers with timbres that are complementary to one another. In particular, I was impressed by Beeb B. whose range permitted great extension, and whose head voice avoided most of the troubles that plague male falcetto. Not that the others in the ensemble weren't spectacular in their approach to complex harmony, but one singer can very dramatically shape the feeling and sound of the final layers, and it need not be the lead voice. For another reference to this idea, check Mutt Lange's choruses on his wife's records and those of Def L., and so on. Mutt is a brilliantly golden tenor, and here again, his contribution is extreme. Once again, the other singers in highly intact in their own way, even if pitch correction plays a big role.

These concepts are pretty dear to me as I've found myself as the principle BG vocal singer for the talents I produce. We do a lot with huge vocal pads and there's a lot time spent getting the right timbres in the layered parts. It's not unusual to get into 30 to 70 tracks of voice, as is common these days I guess.

As for the LRB's gear for their vocal sound I have no idea other than to say that it would have made no difference whatsoever.

John-

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by Ricky

What a band. true Aussie Icons. LRB are an Aussie Band that literally took the world by storm. They were huge in Australia with the first 2 Albums then they focussed on America and hit the West coast just as The Eagles went huge. Graham Goble does most of the vocal arrangements. They went through a huge drama lately where a former member of the band who joined the band around Farnam joined called Steve Housden registered their name in the States. Ask anyone in Australia or a big fan who LRB really are they will tell you its Glenn Shorrick, Graham Goble and Beeb Birtles. This low life upstart tours the States ( He is not game enough to do Australia he would get lynched) with their name with hired guns (Americans) and threatened to sue Glenn Shorrick, Graham Goble and Beeb Birtles when they toured here last year. they toured and told their story in the press and I think there is a price on that bitch Housdens head. The shows were amazing and included them doing the songs acoustically in 3 part harmony. So if any of our fellow American Slutz see this scamming shiester give him a big old bitch slap and say you were the 3rd replacement guitar player in LRB so get a ****ing life.dfegad
And yes "Reminiscing" is a classic pop song along with anything off Diamontina Cocktail. The big Aussie classic is Its a long way there, check out Rick Formosa's solo its dope.

Wow....I did not know this. If I find that guy I will make sure to kick his ass. LRB was one of my favorite bands from the 70's.

I loved Rick Formosa's solo in "It's a long way there" and "Take me home" of the After Hours album. I don't think those first 2 albums got released in the US. They didn't hit it big here until Diamantina Cocktail. They charted in Billboard with "Help is on it's way" and "Happy Aniversary". Then with "Reminiscing" I believe they were #1 in Australia and US for a brief period. Love that song...

I liked David Briggs when he came in too, good stuff on "Light of day".

So...what is the real LRB doing now ? If they can't use their name (can't understand how that happened ?) how are they touring ? Is there a reunion in sight ? I need all the Aussies on this one...

[knightsy]

They toured recently as "Birtles, Shorrock, Goble".

[amost]

a friend of mine is out there plying drums with them on tour...a great singer in his own right.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by knightsy

They toured recently as "Birtles, Shorrock, Goble".

Where and when did they tour, in the US ?

[Led]

Don't forget Derek Pellici, the drummer. I worked on tracks (assistant) with most of the original lineup (but with Housden, not Briggsy)when they reformed to do an album in the late 80's with John Boylan producing. John was a dude...had that fatherly George Martin style of producing and a thing for mint slice biscuits. The pre pro sessions were pretty much just double tracked vocals with each of them doing their own harmonies, and even live as single tracks the vocal blend sounded amazing. What you hear is them. I reckon Glenn Shorrock's voice in the middle added a special weight to it that other lead singers couldn't. Most amazing was Wayne Nelson's voice. Awesome range. He sang a couple of leads that were spine tingling.

[amost]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Where and when did they tour, in the US ?

Check out pollstar.com. They have a buttload of dates in the U.S. right now

[dchapp]

http://pollstar.com/tour/searchall.p...&go_green.y=11

http://pollstar.com/tour/searchall.p...0&go_green.y=0

[Tubthumper]

I once read an interview with Glen Shorrock who said, IIRC, that he wanted LRB's vocal harmonies to resemble those of The Hollies. I think they achieved that. Beeb Birtles sure can get those high notes, a la Graham Nash.

Yeah, I think their voices blend well as the timbres are complimentary.

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

If there's anybody who knows what recording technique and mics, mic arrangements they used, I will be grateful...

Alright! Finally a thread I know a lot about!

<shameless plug>
Go get the Full Circle DVD by "Birtles Shorrock Goble" back from 2003 (& 2005 in the US). It's on Capitol in the US and EMI in Australia and Europe. That's an amazing showcase for the founding guys who were the voices and songwriters of all the LRB hits. Mixed in glorious 5.1 by me!! <g> and featuring all their hits.
<shameless plug off>

But the mix isn't the star here - it's the songs, the arrangements and the amazing harmonies. As stated most of the vocal arrangements are done by Graeham whose approach one could liken to Steely Dan when it comes to perfection. It doesn't matter how long it takes - it's over when it's been done as good as it possibly can.

In terms of their vocal tricks - there's only the standard studio trickery here. Doubling, trippling or delaying BVs and bringing them back up 75% on the other side of the stereo spectrum, etc.

The real magic is when you hear the three voices dry and raw at the same time. Others in the industry talk about the indefinable thing that certain vocal combinations have: The Eagles, The Hollies, C, S & N - something amazing just happens and it's unfair that it happens to some and not others, but sometimes the sum is just larger than the parts. That is certainly the case here - it's like each voice plugs the tonal gaps of the other ones so you're left with this sweet powerful wall.

Once you hear them it almost doesn't matter what mic or preamp you throw up, if you know what I mean. Having said that, Glenn Shorrock is the ONLY singer I've ever recorded where, when it came time to mix, there was almost nothing to do to his voice. (I'm talking about a separate studio gig here - not the live DVD). I put some 10K air on it and it sounded like a record. There was loads of clean bottom end and this great raspy mid-high resonance coming through that I would normally want to add manually, but it was all there in the right amount right off the bat.

Another thing: About four years ago now I did a remastering of LRBs greatest hits and we went back to as much original stuff as we could get - baking tapes, etc etc.

OMFG - even though most were only safeties because we didn't have accecss to the 1st gen masters, about half of those songs sounded so awesome off tape it really makes you re-evaluate how you work today. I mean, they were fat and creamy but yet never over-compressed. You could turn them up really loud and have no fatigue at all. You just felt them hit you in the chest like they should. The only thing was they were dull compared to the train-wrecks that are today's sonics. It was with great reluctance that I poured top end into them because it changed them.

All I can say is massive kudos to the engineers of the day - like Ernie Rose - who recorded and mixed some of those records without the tools that we have today. And yet they sounded so good!

[Tubthumper]

Agreed, they sounded great.

As does your DVD mix. Well done. thumbsup

[Led]

Mikey MTC wrote "All I can say is massive kudos to the engineers of the day - like Ernie Rose - who recorded and mixed some of those records without the tools that we have today. And yet they sounded so good!"
You said it....Ernie and Mack were my bosses and to work in the studio with them was pretty awe inspiring to see the way they worked things like plate predelays and mic placement. THey're attention to detail was full on. I'd still kill to work on something with them nowdays. You can never stop learning from guys like that. Ernie recently went back out on the road a few years ago with LRB to do the live sound. Rock on.

[dreamsongs]

Thanks a milliom Mikey, you made my day...

I actually would like to hear more about those days and what type of gear LRB recorded thru. Did they record all of their albums in Australia ?

I couldn't find anything on Birtles, Shorrock & Goble on Pollstar. I found a lot of dates for LRB but it's not the same band. I don't really care about those guys, they're not the LRB I like and grew up with.

I loved them from the first album "It's a long way there" all the way to "Time Exposure" when Wayne Nelson came in. After that, Glenn left and it was never the same. I think he came back a few years later for one album with an ok hit called "Love is a bridge". After that' it was over...

I would like to hear about what happened with this name stealing of the band if anybody knows. Any reading material on this ?

Also, what happened with Rick Formosa, he only did 2 albums. And why did David Briggs leave too ? Where can I get that DVD ?

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Thanks a milliom Mikey, you made my day...

I actually would like to hear more about those days and what type of gear LRB recorded thru. Did they record all of their albums in Australia ?

I couldn't find anything on Birtles, Shorrock & Goble on Pollstar. I found a lot of dates for LRB but it's not the same band. I don't really care about those guys, they're not the LRB I like and grew up with.

I loved them from the first album "It's a long way there" all the way to "Time Exposure" when Wayne Nelson came in. After that, Glenn left and it was never the same. I think he came back a few years later for one album with an ok hit called "Love is a bridge". After that' it was over...

I would like to hear about what happened with this name stealing of the band if anybody knows. Any reading material on this ?

Also, what happened with Rick Formosa, he only did 2 albums. And why did David Briggs leave too ? Where can I get that DVD ?

I was just a kid at school when they did their main albums but have since done loads of work with various ex-members of the band.

Their first 5 albums were recorded here in Australia but several of those were mixed in the US. For their sixth album they all got to live their fantasy of working with George Martin at Montserrat. While spawning some pretty decent hit singles, that album wasn't as successful as some of their previous.

The "name stealing" thing is a very long and ugly story. It's been mis-represented in the press and has had caused much argument on various internet mailing groups. Basically the law has held that as the original members left the band, they gave up their right to the name. A copy of a copy of a document was produced at the eleventh hour preceding a court case where it is alleged that one of the ex members formally waived his rights. He doesn't remember signing it, etc etc. Various legal opinions say all sorts of different stuff but whatever anyone wants to contiually do within the legal sphere, it's going to cost lots of money and someone has to put that money up.

In the end it was easier to go out as Birtles Shorrock Goble. One of Glenn Shorrock's great lines between songs on the DVD is: "We're not the Little River Band ... but we bloody well sound like it!" And that they certainly do, while the "real" Little River Band" continue to put out albums that don't sound like them. Incredibly paradoxical!

Americans keep going to the "real" Little River Band shows year after year, and most can't seem to tell the difference between them and the band that made all the hits - or simply don't care. Yet in Australia no such tour could even be considered, because in this country Glenn Shorrock will always be the recognizable face and sound of the band.

Ric Formosa is still around - one of my great friends. He actually left the band to pursue more "pure" <g> musical intentions. He's a heavily trained orchestrator and composer capable of complex scores in the John Williams mould. It's hard for Aussies to get big Hollywood movie scores. Some have done it but I think there's plenty of talent still not realized. Even after leaving LRB, Ric was responsible for some of their quality orchestrations. The gorgeous string and horn arrangement in "Reminiscing" is his work.

Regarding other members leaving: One thing LRB is famous for is their prodigous turn over of members. Even in their heyday, up until 1989 or so I think there was 13 official members of the band. Then of course since then they've toured extensively and have turned over more and more again.

[Phil Buckle]

Originally Posted by Led

Don't forget Derek Pellici, the drummer. I worked on tracks (assistant) with most of the original lineup (but with Housden, not Briggsy)when they reformed to do an album in the late 80's with John Boylan producing. John was a dude...had that fatherly George Martin style of producing and a thing for mint slice biscuits. The pre pro sessions were pretty much just double tracked vocals with each of them doing their own harmonies, and even live as single tracks the vocal blend sounded amazing. What you hear is them. I reckon Glenn Shorrock's voice in the middle added a special weight to it that other lead singers couldn't. Most amazing was Wayne Nelson's voice. Awesome range. He sang a couple of leads that were spine tingling.

I've had the good fortune to play with both Derek and Wayne, both incredible musicians.
Wayne is a guy who made me realise what true talent was. There is something in his bones that makes him stand apart.
Obviously a great singer, but my oh my what a bass player.
I did one tour of Australia and Europe with the Farnham band with Wayne as the Bass player and he certainly made me lift my game.
I've never played with someone who was so at ease, never missed a note and made it all look easy.
While I'd be standing there thinking "shit what's the next chord" Wayne would be 30 yards away from his amp vibing up the drummer and grooving like a possesed man.

I always stood near his amp and it was a joy to listen to him.
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread with my old memories but I was reminded of Wayne.

But to come on topic, Rick Formosa is working here in Melbourne doing incredible orchestral composition and arrangement for film and song.

I got him to do some orch stuff lately and he is a truly gifted muso. I've heard that he actually has serious training in this field.
Still loves to talk about guitar players and soloing. Loves a chat!

[Tubthumper]

I remember seeing them at Festival Hall in Brisbane, year unknown, probably early Eighties or so. Their vocals were impressive.

Another recollection: Derek Pellici had a couple of Syndrums that he whacked occassionally. I remember thinking: every song should have pigeon noises.

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

Another recollection: Derek Pellici had a couple of Syndrums that he whacked occassionally. I remember thinking: every song should have pigeon noises.

Derek was a really early adopter of the Syndrum (1978 on the song "Shut Down Turn Off" among others).

Sorry to wax, but as a band they really did take Australian made music out of the small and into the large. Some have accused that as simply meaning that they made music that sounded like American music to appeal to Americans. Maybe that's a fair criticism and maybe that's not but irrespective of that, they opened the doors to other Australian acts who had even greater success down the track. Now it's not so much of a novelty.

<way to change the subject Mikey MTC!>

[vernier]

If anybody is contemplating doing some harmonies on your project, check LRB out !

I wouldn't stop there. For cream-of-the-crop harmonies, also check out: Byrds, Crosby Stills & Nash, and The Sweet.

[adamcal]

Of all the bass players Ive recorded, and there have been many great ones, the only times Ive been truly happy, down to the bottom on my soul, knowing that its pure awesome, are the times Ive have recorded Roger Mclachlan. both as a hired gun on various things and for his band mighty rock.

Sorry, nothing to do with harmonies, just wanted to add that!!!

[Led]

Shutdown, 1978...John started producing them in 77 I think, he was big into the latest gizmos, could be he turned Derek onto the lynndrum. He brought this new mega drum machine with him in the 80's, it was a drum machine, but it had like 8 buttons on it and if you hit them harder the drum played harder! And it was all samples of real drums like havin 8 AMS's in a box with a sequencer in it as well! Man we were peakin. They spent days programming patterns into that big black sucker. Can't remember what is was called. I think I saw one in Cash Converters last week.